Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[eduardo88]

Boring large holes to drop down a tunneling machine

How does that even make sense? How do you bore a hole for a boring machine?

[SpongeG]

you bore one

[randito]

Originally Posted by Overground

Let's not forget too, that people besides UBC students in the Metro, transit users or otherwise, may be encouraged to visit facilities/tourist and recreational areas more conveniently by train at UBC, where a bus trip before wasn't enticing. Myself being one of them.

Let's put a station at wreak beach!

[agrant]

Originally Posted by randito

Let's put a station at wreak beach!

Not at Wreck Beach... too many ugly naked people. Put one closer to the Museum of Anthropology. Now we're talking.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by eduardo88

How does that even make sense? How do you bore a hole for a boring machine?

Dig. Blast. It's not that complicated, just slow and not particularly cheap. What's this woman complaining about though, where the put the TBM in isn't that huge of a problem, its only 2 locations, and there's relatively large amounts of room at either end of the line. The stations on the other hand are proportionately much larger.

[red-paladin]

I don't understand why these people are obsessed with streetcars. Streetcars are nice for another option and it would be great if they build the several proposed lines downtown. But it doesn't make sense to compare it skytrain, which as we all know, would have fewer stations, higher capacity, higher speed, grade separation (meaning it would never hit a car), automation, and like mentioned above, would not remove all the on street parking. Street cars are great to replace buses with, that is their ideal use.
On-street light rail would be a bit better.... but it already bugs me that we are using two separate train systems at this point. Using light rail, with the transfers that means and it's own OMC would be stupid... where are they supposed to build it? in spirit park or the golf course? those bitchy nimbys aren't thinking about that part.

[eduardo88]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Dig. Blast. It's not that complicated, just slow and not particularly cheap. What's this woman complaining about though, where the put the TBM in isn't that huge of a problem, its only 2 locations, and there's relatively large amounts of room at either end of the line. The stations on the other hand are proportionately much larger.

Obviously you dig or blast, i was just poking fun at the whole "boring a hole for a boring machine"...obviously you can't bore a hole for a machine without a machine already dug into a pit...

[worldwide]

sounds pretty straight forward to me

[Hot Rod]

Just build the subway!!

[nname]

The initial options are listed in this document.

I love how this is even listed as an option: "Converting existing SkyTrain infrastructure to LRT, following existing alignment from Commercial Station through Grandview Cut to VCC", "Primarily below grade through Central Broadway, primarily at grade west of Central Broadway." I wonder if this will actually cost more than building an underground Skytrain.

[Lighthouse]

^ I believe that was the original plan for the line back around 1999. I'm not sure why they didn't go through with it (funding?). I'm actually for that alignment, you get a good mix of everything: speed, capacity, and street presence of transit plus i would assume that it won't cost as much as having it underground all the way to ubc

[DKaz]

Speed? No. The trains would be regulated to the speed limit of 50km/h if it was travelling at ground level and be subject to traffic lights etc. even though there will be a little bit of signal prioritization. If there is a major accident on Broadway, that's basically it for the trains.

We'd be better off keeping the B-Line where some drivers barrel down at 60+.

[Lighthouse]

^ yes but that would only be the case for the portion west of central broadway where there would be relatively less traffic and they could probably speed up after blanca toward ubc

[AlexYVR]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Speed? No. The trains would be regulated to the speed limit of 50km/h if it was travelling at ground level and be subject to traffic lights etc. even though there will be a little bit of signal prioritization. If there is a major accident on Broadway, that's basically it for the trains.

We'd be better off keeping the B-Line where some drivers barrel down at 60+.

The portion after Blanca isn't actually very long, and there are constantly drunk/texting students and random golf carts (From the UEL Golf Course) crossing University Boulevard there - it would be tough to speed trains up.

I agree about the B-lines VS LRT - those drivers can be damn inventive if they have to. You should see some of the turns they can and do make if they don't want to deal with an accident/there are thousands of greek revelers covering broadway.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Lighthouse

^ I believe that was the original plan for the line back around 1999. I'm not sure why they didn't go through with it (funding?). I'm actually for that alignment, you get a good mix of everything: speed, capacity, and street presence of transit plus i would assume that it won't cost as much as having it underground all the way to ubc

That's some nice dreaming there....fact is, the region needs a high-speed, high-capacity rail backbone and that's SkyTrain.

The Millennium Line takes something like 30 mins to travel from end to end, I'm quite positive if it were LRT it would take something like 50 minutes.

As for Central Broadway to UBC, underground SkyTrain from VCC to UBC would take about 15-20 mins. With LRT, it would be a marginal improvement over the existing 99 B-Line at 35-45 mins. And I can assure you, reliability and speed (not the number of stations or the whole street presence thing) is the key factor in attaining ridership.

And about "street presence", I could care less about that. What matters is the transportation infrastructure iteslf: getting you from point A to point B. Fools like you would sacrifice the transit infrastructure itself for "street presence"....while the end product would be a trolley with steel wheels or an electrified B-Line.

You may save a bit now by building LRT, but I can assure you everyone will regret it when there's a marginal difference between it and the 99....and we'd definitely regret it long into the future when the thing is at capacity. Consider that ridership estimates in 2002 for SkyTrain from VCC to Arbutus and Rapid Bus from Arbutus to UBC were a combined total of 150,000/day. This study was made before the U-Pass era, before all the other transit improvements, before the Millennium Line's ridership started to kick off, and it didn't consider the ridership from the Canada Line. I wouldn't be surprised if a study on SkyTrain from VCC to UBC estimated ridership levels to be 200,000/day (consider that at the very, very earliest, the project would be completed in 2014).

An LRT from Commercial to UBC would be at capacity on the day it opens.

And just for comparisons sake, the Expo and M-Lines together bring in 250,000 riders a day today.

LRT belongs elsewhere in the region in less dense/busy corridors, not along the UBC corridor and certainly not with the Millennium Line - they went with the right technology.

[Metro-One]

How is this still even a question? What bothers me is the LRT systems they keep using as examples for speed and ridership references are completely different than what is being proposed along Broadway. Their examples are LRT systems that are primarily separated from the road (they have their own rail beds akin to a heavy rail train, are elevated in parts and submerged in others) Also the faster LRT systems they reference also have great distances between stops (in some cases even wider gaps than skytrain). It bugs me so much, along such busy corridors as this we need backbone trains, such as a submerged or elevated skytrain.

Also i just imagined what the Millennium line and Lougheed would have been like if the M-Line were an at grade LRT and it made me shutter.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by AlexYVR

I agree about the B-lines VS LRT - those drivers can be damn inventive if they have to..

My favourite B-line experience was the day the driver, while weaving through traffic, proceeded to smash into a series of newspaper boxes on the sidewalk as well as completely mangling a street sign pole. He just kept on driving as if nothing had happened... lol.

[Lighthouse]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

And about "street presence", I could care less about that. What matters is the transportation infrastructure iteslf: getting you from point A to point B. Fools like you would sacrifice the transit infrastructure itself for "street presence"....while the end product would be a trolley with steel wheels or an electrified B-Line.

I'm not debating on the issue. The fact is there aren't many concrete numbers about the costs, future transit service to ubc, or future demands along the broadway corridor. In five years, there might not be funding available to build an underground SkyTrain, there could be BRT service elsewhere to UBC or more student housing at UBC which would reduce demand on the UBC line. I expressed an opinion that i like having an LRT system that is partially at grade and that i like seeing transit and pedestrian activities on the street level. I dont like being called a FOOL for that.

and i certainly dont consider something like this a trolley on steel wheels

[Vancity]

I would go for skytrain underground to UBC ^^ It gets people moving a lot quicker than LRT at grade (why would the city council want to approve this?). It would clutter the entire Broadway corrider, if an accident were to occur. I'd go for underground subway all the way to UBC. 200,000 ridership a day? It's possible, and that's a lot of people using the line. Infrastructure to get people moving around in a quick, efficient way, that's why this project has to go through.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Also i just imagined what the Millennium line and Lougheed would have been like if the M-Line were an at grade LRT and it made me shutter.

Yuk. Thank goodness city council wasn't that stupid.