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  #561  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by osirisboy View Post
thats already passed, you can build up to 6 storeys with wood
Thats nuts.
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  #562  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Canadian Mind View Post
Thats nuts.
why? wood is one of the better and more versatile building products out there. It simply comes down to how you do it, the details of it, and the skill to put it up right.
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  #563  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2008, 8:34 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Originally Posted by rather_draconian View Post
Thanks raggedy. I'm interested to see how this development will affect the warehousey neighbourhood just south of it...new Yaletown?
All the lands north of West 2nd are the "SEFC Private Lands" - so those will be redeveloped. The area south of West 2nd is iffy, as I would expect the City to want to preserve the industrial land base in that area. There has been some incursion with live/work or social housing in the past, but for the most part it is light industrial (or non-conforming residential).

Last edited by officedweller; Dec 24, 2008 at 10:49 PM.
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  #564  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2008, 4:58 AM
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Here are a few pics showing more of the SEFC area outside the Olympic Village. Looks like lots of potential for redevelopment. I imagine this could be a great area if planned right considering the excellent transportation options. The area will eventually be bounded on the west by the Canada Line, the east by the Expo Line, the south by the UBC Extension, and the north by the seawall/streetcar/water taxi.





Looking towards Mount Pleasant
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  #565  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2009, 2:24 PM
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^ thanks for the pics!

here's some showing the detail on the erickson buildings (and the "fish-scale" windows)










all photos by Roland on www.flickr.com

also, www.gvtv.ca did a segment recently on the Salt building. Check it out..
link is on the homepage.
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  #566  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2009, 4:12 PM
rather_draconian rather_draconian is offline
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Thanks for posting the pictures, Delirium.

Raggedy, I think that area will have great development potential too. I just hope it doesn't turn into a bland condo-land, but respects its industrial roots and preserves some of the industrial/warehousey vibe.
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  #567  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2009, 4:51 PM
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good to see the bums will have easy access to the bottles.

it sure would be nice to see the recycling/garbage bins where bums cant readily gain access to the recycling/garbage inside.
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  #568  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2009, 5:09 PM
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much better to have something for the bums to tear apart or destroy so as to get to the bottles....

let them have their bottles it is a positive service they provide in that respect

there will always be poor people and drug addicts, hopefully one day to a lesser degree, but in the meantime and the futuretime, let's manage things in as balanced a way as possible, as opposed to heavyhanded, "draconian" measures which tend to, due to their severe nature, create unnecessarily destructive backlashes
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  #569  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2009, 5:50 PM
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^ I agree. Why would you want to make it hard for the bums to get at the bottles?? It would be dumb to have a secure place for worthless bottles and cans. The bums want the bottles so they would destroy any recycling bin that made it difficult.
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  #570  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2009, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delirium View Post

also, www.gvtv.ca did a segment recently on the Salt building. Check it out..
link is on the homepage.
looks like its going to be a real cool building. to bad i have to wait unit 2011 to have a beer in it!
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  #571  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2009, 9:10 PM
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Yah that's awesome. It's probably more money to pay city workers to pick up these cans than they're worth to be returned. Meanwhile the cans can be a difference between eating or not eating on any given day.

I often leave cans/bottles on top of bins so they're within easy access, but find that the wind can blow them away. This is a really good solution.
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  #572  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2009, 9:13 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Thanks for the pics!
I wonder what the spandrels on the Erickson buildings will look like since there's a stagger between the windows above and below. Hopefully they're glass and not aluminum panel.

Yeah, that garbage/reccyling can looks like a definite improvement over the ones downtown.
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  #573  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 3:33 PM
rather_draconian rather_draconian is offline
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Taxpayers beware of millions more in Olympic Athletes' Village loans

Vancouverites could be on the hook for hundreds of millions to guarantee Olympic Village loan

By Miro Cernetig, Vancouver Sun columnistJanuary 8, 2009



Vancouver's Olympic Village under construction.
Photograph by: Steve Bosch, Vancouver SunThe news from Vancouver’s Olympic Village is becoming dire. And next Thursday is the day this billion-dollar financial minefield could blow up for the world to see.

That’s when the companies that are building Vancouver’s billion-dollar Olympic Village hope to access more of a $750-million construction loan from Wall Street, to keep constructing the crown jewel of Canada’s 2010 Winter Olympics.

But suddenly, there’s a problem in getting that money. The city might have to offer as much as half a billion dollars in loan guarantees as security, significantly more than the $100 million it has already put up to keep the Olympic Village construction going.

The project’s main, U.S. financier, Wall Street’s formidable Fortress Investment Group, has toughened conditions for accessing its loan. Fortress is asking the City of Vancouver to guarantee most of the $750-million loan it has offered to build the $1.2-billion Olympic Village.

That borrowed money is the primary source of funds for the work crews and developers, working on an increasingly tight — and tenuous — schedule to get the Olympic Athletes’ Village built by this October.

But with its own share price in a slump, the global banking crisis still unwinding and a falling real estate market in Vancouver, Fortress essentially wants a guarantee from the City of Vancouver and its taxpayers that it will be paid. It wants the city to make good on the project’s loan and interest costs if the Olympic Village fails as a real estate venture.

In short, the profitability of the Olympic Village, whose condos were supposed to be sold to the public at great profit after being used by Olympic athletes, is no longer viewed as such a sure thing. In fact, those close to the deal — now watching condo prices drop dramatically — wonder if the deal will ever make a profit.

So here’s what Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson is facing. You’ll be hearing it in the next few days, when he makes it public:

The Wall Street financial firm is saying it will continue to lend the money to build the Olympic Village — on the condition Vancouverites absorb most of the future risk. The money will be loaned until 2010, as promised, under contract, if the city guarantees repayment of the loans to Fortress.

Here’s the financial — and political — challenge to Mayor Robertson, and why he’s got to find another way to get the village built.

First, the rates of Fortress’ loans, negotiated long before he took office, are high by today’s standards: about eight per cent (or more) per annum, roughly $50 million a year or more for the project, according those I spoke to close to the deal. That is eroding the project’s profitability. It’s also about double the rates that might be negotiated if a similar loan were renegotiated today, with the city’s backing and solid credit rating.

Secondly, it no longer seems the Olympic Village condos can be quickly sold off by 2010, as was expected. That was what made this deal work.

The local real estate market has slowed dramatically. Only 250 of the 750 Olympic Village condos have been sold. The new plan — a prudent one — is to delay the sale of the others until the market rebounds and avoid fire-sale prices at taxpayers’ expense.

But that prudence comes at a cost, too. It means loan financing costs won’t end on the Olympic Village by 2010. Instead, they could drag on for years, until all the units are sold.

That means the loans to carry the project will need to be extended, perhaps for years. That will entails tens of millions of dollars in added carrying costs a year, too.

But the Olympic Village’s red ink might deepen even further. There is no guarantee — if the real estate market sags longer than expected — that the Olympic condos will ever be sold at prices high enough to recoup the original investment and carrying costs.

So what’s the focus of the Gregor Robertson administration these days? It’s the only one left: Refinance, as soon as possible.

Mayor Robertson and his advisers hope to find alternative sources of financing for the Olympic Village project, to reduce loan costs for the city and the developers building the project. That might enable them to renegotiate the Fortress loan, using the leverage of the Triple A ratings of the provincial and federal governments.

So far, those governments aren’t saying much. The province, in fact, continues to say this is the city’s problem, not theirs. But that’s a mistake. This is the moment when the West Coast’s biggest city needs the help of the bigger boys at the negotiating table. The city’s past administrations messed up badly.

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  #574  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 3:44 PM
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"acceptable source" = the provincial government. where are you gordo? swoop in and save us!
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  #575  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 4:38 PM
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Good luck refinancing at lower than 8%.

The only entity willing to take that kind of risk for less than 8% would be government. Especially in todays economic and real estate climates.

This author is a bit...
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  #576  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 9:24 PM
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I think the Province should try to help negotiate a better loan if it can help - but shouldn't be responsible for making payment itself - as it was the City of Vancouver that negotiated a bad deal. The City was greedy and it had too big a wish list (read: sustainability / model community => high cost).

Of course, the Vancouver taxpayer in me would like the Province to bail out the City, but on priniciple, it shouldn't happen.

Now, who benefits from preserving the existing dvelopment strutcure? If Fortress pulls out, Millennium wouldn't have enough money to finish the project. i.e. Millennium defaults on its contracts with the City and with Fortress. Millennium goes bankrupt. If it's cheaper for the City to step in and finish the projects in that scenario, I would prefer that than having the City taking a hit to prevent Millennium's bankruptcy or to preserve the status of the project as a "luxury waterfront community". i.e. If the City takes over, it could be finished as market rental housing.

The main factor is whether that can be accomplished by the time of handover to VANOC.
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  #577  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 9:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacrifice333 View Post
Good luck refinancing at lower than 8%.
To put things into perspective, the Infinity project in Surrey originally had a syndicated mortgage loan under CIBC with a face rate of 25%! And the effective rate of interest was much higher after throwing in placement fees, brokerage fees, etc.

The subsequent Lehman Bros. mortgage loan had a face rate of 20% before fees. Brutal. Absolutely brutal.
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  #578  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2009, 10:40 PM
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And Robertson was saying he can save the day... and look what we have now... I expected though.
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  #579  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2009, 12:20 AM
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Vancouver’s Olympic Village will run out of money after the city’s $100-million emergency loan to developer Millennium is exhausted Jan. 15.

The lender, Fortress Credit Corporation, stopped paying in mid-September, which caused the city to make the emergency loan at Oct. 14’s closed-door meeting

Fortress cited project cost overruns and unspecified technical defaults by Millennium.

The city paid $79 million in three installments on the 15th of October, November and December. Another $21 million is due Jan. 15.

Unless it can restructure a $458-million loan with Fortress, city taxpayers could be on the hook $875 million.
http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/News/2009/01/09/7976376.html

So Fortress stopped making construction advances in mid-September with the city stepping in. And the "unspecified technical defaults" just might relate to pre-sales. My guess.

One of the big problems with financing the project was the fact that the City wanted to retain ownership of the lands. And under those circumstances it's extremely tough to obtain construction financing.

Quote:
.... company owner Shahram Malek said that Canadian banks turned them down for the $750-million construction loan they needed.

......

But it was also because the city was holding on to the title of the land, which made the banks uneasy.
.....

The city also did not want to provide a loan guarantee for the value of the land, which added to the difficulties in getting financing, Mr. Jasper said.

Millennium was finally able to get financing from Fortress Investments, a publicly traded U.S. hedge fund, which was more used to large projects. As well, by then, the city had agreed to provide the loan guarantee.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/s...CE08/TPStory/TPNational/BritishColumbia/
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  #580  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2009, 1:37 AM
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right. no offense to officedweller or anyone else, but the city simply can't afford to take this on, and city taxpayers shouldn't be punished this harshly for the moronic decisions of the philip owen/larry campbell councils. in effect, gordo was the quarterback for this whole thing, and the province can absorb this sort of thing much more easily than can the city. honestly, the downtown streetcar? it's never going to happen if the city is forced to take on this project. the new city hall building? nope, not going to happen if this thing sinks the city. et cetera.

gordo's the only one with the power to back up a loan on this thing, that's the reality. seriously, if it goes through the municipal finance authority, it'll be like 5%. that's what needs to happen. the olympics and about a decade of vancouver city finances hang in the balance. it seems to me that it's pretty much that simple.
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