Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[jlousa]

I would be very surprised if the university doesn't offer some incentive to ensure the line makes it all the way into campus.

[nname]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The thing that really pissed me off is the comparison Translink made between SkyTrain and LRT. When comparing speeds thew had the LRT with a lot more stops and then claiming LRT was slower.
If they did a fair ccompariosn and still wanted SkyTrain then fine but don't scew the numbers.

The Evergreen Line as LRT has to obey speed limit; therefore the top speed is 50 (and 60 in some stretches). Skytrain, on the other hand, has a top speed of 80. Without the signal priority issues, the skytrain is almost 1.5x faster. Is this a good comparison?

And I thought one of the selling point for LRT is that they can put more stations in the line.

[Metro-One]

i liked riding the muni in san francisco - slow as it was it was a good way to travel

same with portland - it may be slow but its good and gets you where you wanna go

people need to slow down a little more - thats not such a bad thing

Were you living there or were you more of a tourist? If it is your day in and day out commute most people want to be home fast to be with their families or just to relax and do other things. To me the entire point of good mass transit is to get one out of the car clogged roads so they can save time and get more things done in a day

And I thought one of the selling point for LRT is that they can put more stations in the line.

Skytrain stations average just over 1km distance apart, this is close enough for me, this country needs to do a little more walking. If you want more stops, there is always a bus. Granted the skytrain line should be built to allow the creation of new stations in key areas that are expected to see significant growth.

[fever]

Originally Posted by jlo

I would be very surprised if the university doesn't offer some incentive to ensure the line makes it all the way into campus.

With what money?

Originally Posted by sg

The thing that really pissed me off is the comparison Translink made between SkyTrain and LRT. When comparing speeds thew had the LRT with a lot more stops and then claiming LRT was slower.
If they did a fair ccompariosn and still wanted SkyTrain then fine but don't scew the numbers.

Skytrain stations cost more so it's not unreasonable to propose fewer of them. One of the benefits of light rail is that more stations can be provided at grade. Maybe that benefit wasn't properly considered?

[SpongeG]

the one thing that came up if they went with streetcars showed at least two routes into UBC one through kitsilano and one around 41st or something

they could do that and many more lines with the same money if they went with streetcars - vancouver could have at least 4 lines of streetcars - 2 of them interconnecting with skytrain at various points along the expo line...

for my money i would rather have that system in place than the skytrain

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Were you living there or were you more of a tourist? If it is your day in and day out commute most people want to be home fast to be with their families or just to relax and do other things. To me the entire point of good mass transit is to get one out of the car clogged roads so they can save time and get more things done in a day



Skytrain stations average just over 1km distance apart, this is close enough for me, this country needs to do a little more walking. If you want more stops, than take a bus.

well than they can take the bus or live closer to where they work or go to school if they want such a high quality of life

I just think the amount of money could give us multiple streetcar lines that service more people than a overpriced skytrain line would do

[fever]

Streetcar isn't really the right term. It's like the difference between a local bus and a B-line, at least as I understand it.

41st is another route that a B-line (or LRT) would be a good fit for.

[Metro-One]

Vancouver's transit system needs a healthy metro first, than we can start putting some LRT meat on the bones. How many times does one have to say that the vast majority of cities building LRT already have massive metro systems!

Also Portland = 50 000 riders a day!!!!!!!!

Skytrain = 250 000 riders a day!!!!!!!!

And our metro populations are very similar.

[nname]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

It only has one BLine stop after Alma all the way to UBC which tells you the relativly light ridership aftrer that. BLine with even higher frequency would do nicely.

Light ridership? for UBC? If that's the case, they don't need to run the B-Line every 2 minutes on that stretch. (And coming next month, the #25 just south of it will also have ~2min morning peak frequency to UBC). And a frequency of every 2 minutes is about the maximum frequency you can run a bus route...

I think if its Skytrain, they can run it at-grade after Blanca, so there's that much of a difference anyways. (would it be possible to run it at-grade between Alma and Blanca, and build an overpass for Blanca?)

[fever]

I think we pretty much agree on that, mo. These are what I think the priorities should be:

Evergreen (skytrain)
Guildford, Newton (light rail)
Millennium to Arbutus (skytrain)
Langley/Scott Road (interurban)

Originally Posted by nn

I think if its Skytrain, they can run it at-grade after Blanca, so there's that much of a difference anyways. (would it be possible to run it at-grade between Alma and Blanca, and build an overpass for Blanca?)

It might have to be bored? One of the main things counting against UBC (and SFU) is the seasonal ridership.

[SpongeG]

no a while back in the tyee they showed what the money it would cost to build skytrain could be if they used "trams" aka street cars aka these things:


http://tramfacts.wordpress.com/all-posts/page/2/

they showed a multitude of routes - i think there were 4 lines that criss crossed east west and north south directions the city and people could transfer at canada line and/or expo line and UBC would have two lines serving it instead of one

[Metro-One]

I think if its Skytrain, they can run it at-grade after Blanca, so there's that much of a difference anyways. (would it be possible to run it at-grade between Alma and Blanca, and build an overpass for Blanca?)

Good idea, i think SpongeG has to at least at least admit that the skytrain needs to be extended out as far as the C-line to create a hub. For people traveling from Coquitlam to the airport they would only have to take 1 transfer, instead of two (one at VCC clark or Commercial onto an LRT, then one again at the C-line = silly).

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Vancouver's transit system needs a healthy metro first, than we can start putting some LRT meat on the bones. How many times does one have to say that the vast majority of cities building LRT already have massive metro systems!

Also Portland = 50 000 riders a day!!!!!!!!

Skytrain = 250 000 riders a day!!!!!!!!

And our metro populations are very similar.

envision Skytrain serving the entire region and Vancouver having its own trams serving itself - not the region you get on a streetcar tram at your house you transfer to skytrain and go to the next city whatever

[jlousa]

Fever, the university doesn't have money that it would be allowed to throw at Translink but I'm sure they might be able to provide some incentive in another form.

[ssiguy]

Even for people who want no SkyTrain expansions, I think they would all support a SkyTrain MLine exp to hook up with the CanadaLine.

Remember the BLine will be less busy after Canada is up and running. There will be far fewer pasengers at Granville due to getting rid of the 98# and WR/LAD buses. Many coming from the suburbs getting to UBC will transfer at 41st as Translink wants to put a new Bline along 41st.

Anyway, stop the ridiculous waste of money with SkyTrain west of Alma and put it towards a much higher density, much busier Hastings. For the amount they would spend on SkyTrain further west from Alma to UBC they could loop the Expo with stations at Main, Strathcona, Commercial, Nanaimo, Renfrew and ending at Kootenay Loop. It would help clean up Hastings and releive the downtown of many of its buses.

[Metro-One]

I agree with ssiguy, almo is far enough skytrain, then spend the money saved elsewhere.

[SpongeG]

yes that would be good - extend to the c line and than use the money for more of something

that part of vancouver isn't going to densify in our lifetime

its barely done anything with the expo line and thats been around 20+ years

i can't imagine they would move into kits and start demolishing the homes to put up towers

[fever]

sponge, I wouldn't trust the figures from that study either. The route length is probably arrived at by dividing the expected cost of skytrain to UBC by the typical light rail cost/km, and then mapping out routes that have the same route length. It likely doesn't account for relocating utilities. It might even take its average speed straight from the average speed of some light rail line. Another problem with this method is that it equates street cars with light rail, and routes on existing ROWs with routes in the middle of streets.

[jlousa]

Why stop at Kootney loop, why not continue to the foot of SFU that way you get all of the Burnaby Hastings strip as well, by then you might as well continue until you connect with the Evergreen line and create another hub.

Fact is it would be nice to have lots of these things but we can't afford them, right now. AS long as we keep progressing one line to the next we'll be fine.

[dreambrother808]

try going to work every day at ubc or along the broadway corridor and then talk to me about what kind of system should be installed.
sounds like ssiguy has some personal connection to the hastings corridor, which is obviously far less used than the b-line.
do you have any idea how busy transit is along broadway????? seriously, the other lines are being built first because of political reasons, not because of ridership.
maybe if i lived in coquitlam i wouldn't care, or if i lived somewhere else where skytrain is being built even though the ridership will not match broadway's.
broadway DESERVES skytrain. installing LRT along broadway would become the most regretted embarrassing decision in translink history!!! no exaggeration there.
look at the facts and the genuine needs.