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View Poll Results: Which Party will YOU be voting for?
Conservative 9 39.13%
Liberal 6 26.09%
NDP 6 26.09%
Green 2 8.70%
Other (who) 0 0%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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  #761  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2008, 3:36 PM
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  #762  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2008, 1:58 PM
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Originally Posted by adam View Post
We'll see some major inflation over the next couple years - we'll be paying $20 for a loaf of bread... some of you heard it hear first
We're actually at a more significant risk of deflation, through a vicious cycle of panicked deleveraging on underwater assets.
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  #763  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2008, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bornagainbiking View Post
I know this is not a simple issue. But the LONE issue right now is to soften the global recession on Canada and work our way thru this. [...] All I hear is anti Harper rhetoric and if you don't like him that is your right.

[...]

So a leader who only got whatever percent lets say 37% is the Prime minister well 50% of Canadian weren't even interested enough to vote.

However; the other parties had a lesser percent so this tactic is null and void as figures never lie but liars figure.
Actually, 59% of eligible Canadians voted and 41% did not.

There's some indication that new voting strictures reduced turnout, but I haven't yet seen a systematic study of how big the effect was.

Another likely factor in the reduced turnout is the frequency of elections. Parliamentary tradition holds that too many elections are bad for democracy, which is why the GG is encouraged to offer another party a chance to form a government if the PM is defeated soon after an election.

Voters do not elect the Prime Minister, the Cabinet, or the political parties. Voters only elect the House of Commons, a group of elected representatives from each constituency in the country. Canadian voters elect people, not parties.

The House of Commons represents the public, and the government is directly accountable to the House.

The GG appoints as Prime Minister that person who enjoys the confidence of a majority of MPs. The Prime Minister, in turn, appoints a Cabinet of Ministers. The Prime Minister and the Cabinet constitute the government, and they serve at the pleasure of the House of Commons.

The Prime Minister is accountable to the House of Commons (the elected representatives) and must retain the support of a majority of MPs to lead the government. If the party of which he is the leader controls less than half the seats in the House of Commons, the Prime Minister must ensure that his proposed legislation appeals to enough members of other parties to get a majority of votes on confidence motions.

Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as a "minority government". The government can only survive if it has the support of a majority of MPs. This is why Stephen Harper relied on the Bloc Quebecois (14 times) during the last three years to pass his government's legislation - the Conservative Party did not have enough seats to constitute a majority by itself.

The Conservative Party still does not have enough seats to constitute a majority, so Harper must appeal to members of other parties if he wants to stay in power.

Two weeks into his new Parliamentary session, Harper introduced a confidence motion on legislation that a majority of MPs oppose. He is by definition unfit to lead the government any more, because he lost the confidence of the House of Commons.

If you want to blame someone for making Parliament dysfunctional, blame the Prime Minister who is acting as through he is not accountable to the people's representatives in how he runs the government.

A majority of MPs are agreed on the course this country must take to address the global recession and have a plan to put in place immediately. They are cooperating to do what you have identified as the "LONE issue right now" for the government: execute a stimulus program to soften the global economic recession for Canada.

Meanwhile, the Prime Minister you are defending took his first opportunity to soften the global recession on Canada and used it instead to make ideological cuts and attack his political opponents.

When the House of Commons tried to hold him accountable for this, he actually suspended the Parliament for nearly two months, a period during which nothing is getting done to respond to the global crisis.

That's not "anti-Harper rhetoric", it's the cringe-inducing fact of the matter.
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  #764  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2008, 4:59 PM
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  #765  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2008, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal View Post
I heard Michael Ignatieff being interviewed on Sunday by Michael Enright.

Didn't sound hopeful for the coalition. Ignatieff was back-pedalling on whether the coalition was a fait d'accompli. Lots of, lets see what the Conservative come back with in January, blah, blah, blah.

I'd go as far to say unless the Conservatives really drop the ball again with the budget, the coalition is still born.
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  #766  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2008, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by FairHamilton View Post
Didn't sound hopeful for the coalition. Ignatieff was back-pedalling on whether the coalition was a fait d'accompli. Lots of, lets see what the Conservative come back with in January, blah, blah, blah.

I'd go as far to say unless the Conservatives really drop the ball again with the budget, the coalition is still born.
Exactly. Ignatieff always maintained a safe distance from the coalition, and I strongly suspect his priorities as Liberal leader will be to rebuild the party, pay off its debts, accumulate a war chest and then campaign to win by themselves in a future election.

Say hello to probably another year of Conservative government with Harper at the helm.
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  #767  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2008, 6:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal View Post
Say hello to probably another year of Conservative government with Harper at the helm.
I'm betting 24 - 30 months. I'd even go as high as 36 months.
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  #768  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2008, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal View Post
Exactly. Ignatieff always maintained a safe distance from the coalition, and I strongly suspect his priorities as Liberal leader will be to rebuild the party, pay off its debts, accumulate a war chest and then campaign to win by themselves in a future election.

Say hello to probably another year of Conservative government with Harper at the helm.
That's not so bad, we'll return to Liberal majorities.

The Conservatives got slapped down with the coalition gambit and won't be able to do as much damage (they'll have to act like a minority government) when parliament resumes.
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  #769  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2008, 7:09 PM
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That's not so bad, we'll return to Liberal majorities.
Or to unstable Liberal minorities. Between the two de facto regional parties (the Bloc in Quebec and the Conservatives in Alberta), the only way a party can win a majority is by taking most of the rest of the country: Ontario, the Atlantic provinces, more of the Prairies, and B.C. The Liberals will have a hard time doing that without splitting the urban vote with the NDP.

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Originally Posted by flar View Post
The Conservatives got slapped down with the coalition gambit and won't be able to do as much damage (they'll have to act like a minority government) when parliament resumes.
That is a good thing, but Harper's approach has always been incremental - making a long series small changes that aren't harmful enough in themselves to warrant a vote of no confidence but cumulatively nudge the country to the right. That incremental process - a process supported by the more corporatist Liberals now in ascendancy - will continue as long as Harper continues as Prime Minister.
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  #770  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2008, 7:40 PM
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What I don't understand are all the comments being posted by people on cbc.ca and ctv.ca and other websites. It's bizare! A few people are saying they will vote conservative now and not for Ignatieff.

An analogy might be:

'Well, my girlfriend isn't coming to the party so I might as well sleep with her ugly cousin... that will show her.'

Last edited by BrianE; Dec 9, 2008 at 8:15 PM.
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  #771  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2008, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianE View Post
What I don't understand are all the comments being posted by people on cbc.ca and ctv.ca and other websites. It's bizare! A few people are saying they will vote conservative now and not for Ignatieff.

An analogy might be:

'Well, my girlfriend isn't coming to the party so I might as well sleep with her ugly cousin... that will show her.'
You gotta take posts on cbc and ctv articles with a grain of salt. They are made mainly by MP's parliamentary assistants (on our dime) and are meant to reinforce positive messages about their party (and reinforce negatives about their political opponents). CBC is the favourite target of right-whingers for this kind of tactic.

PS: no that was not a typo.
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  #772  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2008, 9:08 PM
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Still more mixed economic messages from our current (on hiatus) federal government.

From Flaherty: http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/553319

From Harper: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/08121...conomy_finance
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  #773  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 7:19 PM
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Ontario will get 22 new seats in the next federal election so that should bring back another seat to Inner Hamilton, probably bring back West Hamilton riding.
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  #774  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 7:45 PM
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Ontario will get 22 new seats in the next federal election
Yet another reason for Harper to have pulled the plug on parliament prematurely.
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  #775  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
Ontario will get 22 new seats in the next federal election so that should bring back another seat to Inner Hamilton, probably bring back West Hamilton riding.
I hope you're right. As a Westdaler, I feel totally disenfranchised lumped in Ancaster and Flamborough. Of course, that will leave red Dundas all alone in a sea of blue.
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  #776  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 8:14 PM
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The electoral districts are supposed to be independently and objectively chosen, but you can be sure the Conservatives will do everything they can to make sure completely urban electoral district boundaries are less favoured than boundaries that split up urban areas.
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  #777  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 8:16 PM
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The electoral districts are supposed to be independently and objectively chosen, but you can be sure the Conservatives will do everything they can to make sure completely urban electoral district boundaries are less favoured than boundaries that split up urban areas.
I'm sure they'll ask independent constituency expert Dr. Gerry Mander to draw up the new boundaries.
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  #778  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ryan_mcgreal View Post
I'm sure they'll ask independent constituency expert Dr. Gerry Mander to draw up the new boundaries.
I wouldn't be surprised, Dr. Mander's expertise has been used extensively in the past.
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  #779  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 8:31 PM
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The new rule is one MP for every 115,000 residents. Inner Hamilton has about 500,000? So we should at least have 4 ridings maybe 5 ridings?
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  #780  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2008, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
Ontario will get 22 new seats in the next federal election so that should bring back another seat to Inner Hamilton, probably bring back West Hamilton riding.
FWIW I just read on CBC that it will be 21 new seats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
The new rule is one MP for every 115,000 residents.
Again, the CBC article notes that this would have been the ratio under Harper's former proposal. The new agreement gives Ontario approximately the same as the other provinces - one MP for every 105,000 residents.

Last edited by ryan_mcgreal; Dec 17, 2008 at 9:02 PM.
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