The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

What is the scheduled completion date for the Mile One Interchange?

2011-2012....

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

The TJ reported that Irving still wants to buy the Lantic Sugar site - indicating to me the HQ is still in the works.

The have offered $1,210,667.

Yes...and accepted at council...with $200,000 that irving wanted earmakred for worthy causes (not sure how they worded it). . . .will probably get the city in a tizzy, as they prefer not to be told how to spend their money..

[PostModernPrometheus]

i can't really see the hq being derailed...timeline may mess up a little depending on economic conditions in the world, but keep in mind that the large oil companies (including bp) may see their profit margins shrink in the coming months, but they are not likely to go into any kind of deficit situation....hq & second refinery will go hand in hand...

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Yup, it's the new Sobeys on the Golden Mile. Hopefully the rumours are true about the old Sobeys location being converted into an Empire Theatres location, as that would be great for the West Side.

fingers crossed...

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

i can't really see the hq being derailed...timeline may mess up a little depending on economic conditions in the world, but keep in mind that the large oil companies (including bp) may see their profit margins shrink in the coming months, but they are not likely to go into any kind of deficit situation....hq & second refinery will go hand in hand...

There is no way the refinery and the HQ aren't being built. From what I've been told, Irving's current refinery makes more money when crude oil prices are low, so they'll certainly be in good shape in the coming couple years.

The HQ will need a lot of work to Long Wharf though, and there is no way it will end up only costing the $30 million they quoted at the announcement. Improvements to the sea wall at Long Wharf will cost at least 4-6 million I wager, and that's not including any other costs of building one of the largest and greenest office buildings in Eastern Canada. Eider Rock's estimated cost has already jumped to nearly $10 billion, and I think we'll see proportional increases to the HQ's cost.

And to think, we still haven't heard anything about what BP plans to do about setting up offices in the city. It could be that they will just occupy the existing IOL buildings like the Golden Ball, but they may have other plans in the works as well (I'm keeping my fingers crossed for another large office development Uptown).

[kwajo]

Oh yeah, and I think we almost have another level on "Chateau Saint John", so whoever bet that there would be 9 stories before we see an official announcement of its existence is one step closer to being correct.

[Alberta Bound]

Originally Posted by kwajo

There is no way the refinery and the HQ aren't being built. From what I've been told, Irving's current refinery makes more money when crude oil prices are low, so they'll certainly be in good shape in the coming couple years.

The HQ will need a lot of work to Long Wharf though, and there is no way it will end up only costing the $30 million they quoted at the announcement. Improvements to the sea wall at Long Wharf will cost at least 4-6 million I wager, and that's not including any other costs of building one of the largest and greenest office buildings in Eastern Canada. Eider Rock's estimated cost has already jumped to nearly $10 billion, and I think we'll see proportional increases to the HQ's cost.

And to think, we still haven't heard anything about what BP plans to do about setting up offices in the city. It could be that they will just occupy the existing IOL buildings like the Golden Ball, but they may have other plans in the works as well (I'm keeping my fingers crossed for another large office development Uptown).

I wouldn't be surrpised if the final decision on go ahead is delayed. It might not be all that easy for BP and Irving to put up $10 billion given the current credit situation.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by Alberta Bound

I wouldn't be surrpised if the final decision on go ahead is delayed. It might not be all that easy for BP and Irving to put up $10 billion given the current credit situation.

Maybe, but even from the initial schedule given at the announcement, construction wasn't to start until 2010 at least, and given that it will take a couple years to build something that massive, that puts the refinery online sometime after 2013, or even 2015. That's quite a few years from now, and I think they're looking beyond this current economic recession to the inevitable upturn on the other side. That's when you want the refinery to come online, right when things are on the upswing and you can collect the biggest piece of the shattered pie. I'm sure BP and Irving together could raise $10 billion, heck they could probably fake their own financial crisis and get a truckload of "bailout" money from the government to "help foster economic growth" or some nonsense.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by kwajo

There is no way the refinery and the HQ aren't being built. From what I've been told, Irving's current refinery makes more money when crude oil prices are low, so they'll certainly be in good shape in the coming couple years.

The HQ will need a lot of work to Long Wharf though, and there is no way it will end up only costing the $30 million they quoted at the announcement. Improvements to the sea wall at Long Wharf will cost at least 4-6 million I wager, and that's not including any other costs of building one of the largest and greenest office buildings in Eastern Canada. Eider Rock's estimated cost has already jumped to nearly $10 billion, and I think we'll see proportional increases to the HQ's cost.

And to think, we still haven't heard anything about what BP plans to do about setting up offices in the city. It could be that they will just occupy the existing IOL buildings like the Golden Ball, but they may have other plans in the works as well (I'm keeping my fingers crossed for another large office development Uptown).

I think the refinery will need some venture capital money - as conventional lending isn't at its most available currently.

I hear the HQ will happen regardless of the refinery.

If IOL decides they are content with a long term (60 year) lease, this could happen soon. If they want to buy the land, there are a lot more hoops that might not all be jumped before another federal election.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Has anyone else heard that the IOL HQ will include a new YMCA? That would be a good way to add access to the Harbourfront.

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Oh yeah, and I think we almost have another level on "Chateau Saint John", so whoever bet that there would be 9 stories before we see an official announcement of its existence is one step closer to being correct.

We'll prolly see a Grand Opening Announcement.

[random11]

SAINT JOHN - Tourists want truth in advertising and Reversing Falls just doesn't do it.

Dan Glenn of the Glenn Group calls Reversing Falls three parks in one, pointing to land accessed from Riverview Drive on the west side, the existing site beside the bridge and Fallsview Park, where the jet boats are located.

That's what consultants hired by the city to come up with a plan to turn Reversing Falls into a world-class tourist destination have found. They didn't go looking to change the name, but that's what people in Boston, Ottawa, Montreal and Halifax suggested.

"I want you to think about every product in your cupboard at home," said Harvey Sawler, of the Glenn Group Ltd.

"For any successful product ... there is always a true and honest and powerful brand promise."

He and Dan Glenn gave a two-hour presentation to about 50 people at the New Brunswick Museum Tuesday. It was chock full of ideas to make the site a year-round attraction with an interpretation centre to rival things found at Disney's Epcot Center. But in the end their research has led them to believe the site needs a new name or brand.

The Fundy Vortex: A Geo Marine Wonder, was the top choice to come out of the focus groups in all four cities. Other choices closer to the current name were Fundy's Reversing Rapids: A Geo Marine Wonder or The Reversing Rapids: A Fundy Marine Wonder.

The consultants believe the site needs to tie itself to the Bay of Fundy, which has good name recognition in places like Boston and Montreal. People in the focus groups were confused about the use of the word "falls" as a name for the phenomena and local people who bring visitors to the site often have to explain it really isn't a falls, said Sawler.

The Glenn Group is still looking for public feedback and any major changes at Reversing Falls are still years away. In the new year, the first thing that might happen is development of some trails.

"We dared to dream a little big here tonight," said Bill MacMackin, president of the Saint John Waterfront Development Partnership.

Reversing Falls is no longer promoted by the provincial Department of Tourism because it is not seen as a site it wants to be associated with, but Glenn said if it is reworked it will be a major draw for the city and the province.

The plans call for developments in three areas.

"I call it three parks in one," he said, pointing to land accessed from Riverview Drive on the west side, the existing site beside the bridge and Fallsview Park, where the jet boats are located.

At the centre of the new proposal is an interpretation centre off Riverview Drive, with a view up the river under the existing bridge. It will have easy access from the Throughway through Prince Street on the west side.

They are proposing an 18,000 square foot building with exhibit spaces open to the public as well as an area where visitors will pay to experience a simulation of what is at the falls site, which includes a 70-metre underwater drop off.

"It's not a museum, it's an interactive interpretive centre," he said.

The simulation would include a theatre with a 10-metre screen with 20 to 40 seats on a platform that appears to be on top of the water, he said.

"You would see jet boats zinging by, a pilot boat and part of the architecture would be the bottom of the bridge," Glenn said. "And just as you're starting to figure out what's going on here the floor would start to drop, not like the Tower of Terror. As it gradually moves down it would start to unveil the height of the water and the falls."

Reversing Falls is not just a water event. The area is also a unique geological area where continents collided and scientists have discovered rock formations sandwiched together that at one time in the distant past were in Antarctica and Africa. That is another fact that will make it exciting for people to visit, Glenn said.

The plan calls for upgrading the newrestaurant to handle more customers and tearing down the older building at the road side to turn it into a viewing platform with lights to enhance the water at night.

Across the bridge at Fallsview Park there would be an amphitheatre and zip rides from the cliff face down to the area beside the jet boat rides. People in the focus groups were very excited about that idea, he said.

The site also has enough land to build a sports field for use by Harbour View High School.

MacMackin conceded the proposal is a multimillion-dollar project that could take a number of years to achieve. It is not something the city could do on its own, but it is possible with help from a number of partners, including ACOA and the private sector.

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Maybe, but even from the initial schedule given at the announcement, construction wasn't to start until 2010 at least, and given that it will take a couple years to build something that massive, that puts the refinery online sometime after 2013, or even 2015. That's quite a few years from now, and I think they're looking beyond this current economic recession to the inevitable upturn on the other side.

Agreed....keep in mind, large oil companies are operating on vastly different economic platforms than are most other companies. . .this is a different situation from the housing markets, manufactuaring sector, etc.

[PostModernPrometheus]

Mayor Optimistic About Municipal Infrastructure Funding
November 27, 2008
By: DeniseBarkhouse

SAINT JOHN, NB - Saint John Mayor Ivan Court is optimistic today's federal fiscal update will contain good news for municipalities.

He recently returned from the Federation of Canadian Municpalities meeting in ottawa and anticipates the prime minister will announce greater funding for infrastructure projects.

Court says, "The government wants to double the number of projects and put at least one hundred thousand people back to work."

He says, "We can expect announcements on four projects in greater Saint John that will be announced either in mid December or the beginning of January."


link: http://www.news889.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20081127_051724_14804

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

Has anyone else heard that the IOL HQ will include a new YMCA? That would be a good way to add access to the Harbourfront.

no...haven't heard that one....would add some nice diversity...

[PersonPlaceorThing]

So as gas prices go down, bus fares are rising. This is a great way to discourage use of the Commex service. We'll have to stop building on parking lots.

TJ Article

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

So as gas prices go down, bus fares are rising. This is a great way to discourage use of the Commex service. We'll have to stop building on parking lots.

TJ Article

As pointed out by one of the commentaries on that article, the ridership of Comex is still increasing. To quote them:

"Actually Mr. Buckley, ridership has not decreased with gas prices at all, at least for the Comex service. If you look at the numbers for September, October and November they are the highest they have been in the history of the service. If anything the high Summer gas prices have opened people's eyes to the benefits of public transit and they are sticking with it. Don't forget that even though gas prices may have dropped, there is no change in the high cost of parking or vehicle maintenance, so transit still makes sense for a lot of people."

I can speak to the accuracy of those anecdotal stats, I saw the same thing in a presentation from SJ Transit last week.

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

He says, "We can expect announcements on four projects in greater Saint John that will be announced either in mid December or the beginning of January."


link: http://www.news889.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20081127_051724_14804

any guesses?

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by Helladog

CONSTRUCTION PHOTOS

"Chateau Saint John" - Up to the 2nd floor

i don't get it....cyr holdings made a big deal during the summer of an imminent major announcement for their upcoming development in the area...and with the hotel well under construction (btw...9 or 10 stories is kinda going to look funny in that part of town, don't you think??) still nothing, and not even conceptual drawings of the final product....

[kwajo]

That's what happens when you trust a Monctonian to build a project ....... (just kidding guys)

But seriously though, I don't get it either, why keep the project in the dark, shouldn't they be drumming up PR or something? I'd still rather see that kind of new building height in the Uptown, but at least it's a lot closer to an area of established density than it would be on the East side. Hopefully the Waterfront Dev. Partnership will get their wish for funds to buy the Coast Guard site and the plans will go ahead for that ~10 story hotel, then I'll get my wish for something new in the heart of the SJ skyline.