Canada Line | Completed

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

First of all, nothing is impossible, I hate it when people say impossible, and second of all lots of subways have curved stations so that would not be a problem. Also the same people will be buying the new cars and extensions in the future as they would be right now So stop your bitching because it ain't going to change anything!

Perhaps not impossible, but would be ridiculously expensive.

I'm bitching not for things to change (obviously), but so that the next transit project doesn't go down the gutter like this one.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by ravman

My reponse:

as for the comment by Metro-One, there will NOT be trains on the CANADA LINE every 1.5 minutes or 90 seconds as they are on the SKYTRAIN! one reason is single-tracking in Richmond and YVR... they will be every few minutes and like several minutes during non-peak time... obviously past bridgeport, the times double as the trains split...

With more trains, you are able to reach a frequency of 90 secs on the Vancouver mainline from Waterfront to Bridgeport. From Bridgeport to Richmond Centre and the Airport, the max. frequency is doubled to about 3-minutes as the trains split to different tracks at Bridgeport. And every 3-mins is like the current frequency of the Expo Line in Surrey during some hours and still better than the current frequency for the M-Line.

The end sections may be single track, but it's only 640-metres (equivalent to the distance of perhaps from Waterfront Station to Robson Street). Assuming that condo residents don't complain about noise and requesting that the trains slow down (like what happened at the Main Street Station precinct), the train will be able to get in and out of that single tracked section very quickly.....the train itself will only be stopping at the station for 20-30 secs.

When the line opens next year, it'll be close to 3.5-minutes in Vancouver and 7-8 minutes in Richmond/Sea Island for most of the day.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

i am pretty sure they very well can be ever 90 seconds on the main line (especially before the branch). Do you see what you guys are doing? You are encouraging ravman! When this thing opens, it will be a success, and ravman, i wish i could bare you from riding the line forever, but unfortunatly i do not have that power

I don't think anyone doubts the success of the line.....otherwise i wouldn't be bitching about it lol.


I don't intend on giving ravman more ammo, but i do think my criticisms tend to be quite fair (for the most part).

[Metro-One]

I would not call this train as, down the getter, it will get the job done. Do remember that the Expo line directly services Vancouver, Burnaby, New Westminster, Surrey and their surrounding areas (such as people coming from Coquitlam currently and Pitt Meadows, Poco, Maple Ridge, Langley etc...) while the Canada line only directly services Vancouver and Richmond. It does have the airport, yes, but even in 20 years from now it will still service far less than half of the general population the Expo Line services now. People tend to lose sight that this is a different corridor. The Expo line pretty much drives right through the heart of Metro Vancouver, while this line is servicing an artery.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I would not call this train as, down the getter, it will get the job done. Do remember that the Expo line directly services Vancouver, Burnaby, New Westminster, Surrey and their surrounding areas (such as people coming from Coquitlam currently and Pitt Meadows, Poco, Maple Ridge, Langley etc...) while the Canada line only directly services Vancouver and Richmond. It does have the airport, yes, but even in 20 years from now it will still service far less than half of the general population the Expo Line services now. People tend to lose sight that this is a different corridor. The Expo line pretty much drives right through the heart of Metro Vancouver, while this line is servicing an artery.

Haha, who knows.....I do admit that I could be wrong about whether or not it's enough capacity, but 50-metre platforms no matter what excuse for it seems to be extremely shortsighted. Rail systems around the world always leave themselves a bit of leeway or at least for the future allowance of longer platforms. And what about on the passenger comfort perspective?



I know frequencies can change, but the contracted late-night service frequency for the Canada Line is ridiculous. 10-mins in Vancouver and 20-minutes in Richmond/Sea Island. The trains aren't even being driven and that's the frequency they are planning for. I'd rather like to see every 7-minutes in Vancouver and 14-minutes south of the Fraser.

[Metro-One]

Well yes those late night frequencies are lame but we can agree that those can be easily fixed. They don't even need to buy more cars to do so

[agrant]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

Haha, who knows.....I do admit that I could be wrong about whether or not it's enough capacity, but 50-metre platforms no matter what excuse for it seems to be extremely shortsighted. Rail systems around the world always leave themselves a bit of leeway or at least for the future allowance of longer platforms. And what about on the passenger comfort perspective?

Thing is, the Canada Line will start out with 2 car trains with the ability to add a third car in the future. How much expansion ability do you want? 100%, 200% expansion? This isn't Hong Kong or New York. Richmond to downtown Vancouver has a much lower population density than these cities. Longer platforms would have added tremendously to the cost, which could have resulted in the line never being approved.

The first year of operation should give some indication of how well it will serve the population. I don't hear much from the media regarding platform lengths and capacity... Perhaps some time after the Canada Line opens we'll hear something, which is probably the right thing to do - wait and see.

[mr.x]

^ like i said, i know i could be wrong.

[ravman]

ok guys.... the ideal situation would have been integration with the Expo line... but its too late for that... the fact of the matter remains that Translink has an agreement with CLCO ( the people who own and operate the Canada line) and there is a ridership guarantee.... that is a big problem... i cant remember the number off hand, but i am worried about NOT meeting those targets.... the line is an awesome thing... but it was botched from before the ground was even dug...

[DKaz]

What's the acceleration/deceleration rate of the trains? 1.5 m/s^2 and 3.0m/s^2? Assuming that trains arrive at Richmond go straight through the switch....

The incoming train needs to begin decelerating 176m from the stopping point at the above deceleration rate. That means it travels 464m at 80km/h = 20.9 seconds. The train takes 7.4 seconds to decelerate to a stop, so that's 28.4 seconds. It would dwell there for 60 seconds to allow all the passengers to get off and get on and then leave. The train takes 14.8 seconds and 164m to accelerate and travels 426m at 80km/h for 19.2 seconds before decelerating in the final 50m before the switch down to 50km/h in 2.8 seconds. Total time to get in and out from the final double track section to Richmond-Brighouse Station. -- 125.1 seconds. 3 minute frequency on the Richmond section is definitely doable.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by ravman

ok guys.... the ideal situation would have been integration with the Expo line... but its too late for that... the fact of the matter remains that Translink has an agreement with CLCO ( the people who own and operate the Canada line) and there is a ridership guarantee.... that is a big problem... i cant remember the number off hand, but i am worried about NOT meeting those targets.... the line is an awesome thing... but it was botched from before the ground was even dug...

Ummmm....yea. The Expo Line and the Canada Line use two different type of tracks, and the Canada Line track is also a bit wider.


The magic number is 100,000 and I have confidence that they'll reach that number within the first 2-3 years (it takes time for people to get accustomed with the new service). I would think that during opening year, they'll get around 70,000.

100,000 consists of 40,000 from the 98 B-Line, 30,000 from bus transplants, and another 30,000 from brand new ridership. The numbers are quite realistic.

[Overground]

^Do you mean the guideway track or the rail width? I thought Skytrain and Canada Line rails are both the same standard gauge.

I agree with you too that it will reach those numbers in the 2nd or 3rd year. This line is is going to be very very popular me thinks.

[DKaz]

They both use standard gauge 1435 mm track. The problem is that the Canada Line trains are too wide to fit through Skytrain stations and I believe they're taller as well, from wheel to floor of the carriage.

[officedweller]

I agree that the Richmond corridor is not the same as the Surrey corridor and won't ever have the same capacity demands - it lies on a flood plain, is bounded by the ALR, and isn't a core centre on the LRSP.

Originally Posted by ravman

... i am worried about NOT meeting those targets....

But even if the line were not a P3 - we'd still be paying for it - it would be called an operating loss, not a payment.

WRT frequency of trains -

I guess the question is whether they can turn around a train on the YVR branch and on the Richmond branch so that when they return to Bridgeport they are spaced 3 minutes apart at Bridgeport to achieve the 90 second combined service north of Bridgeport. i.e. can they make up the delay (caused by the single tracking) on the remainder of the YVR or Richmond branch to achieve the 3 minute separation at Bridgeport.

Remember that every second train at Bridgeport in the a.m. rush will be practically empty, because it'll be coming from the airport - that is probably a significant passenger load difference than the combined M-Line / Expo Line passenger loadings.

[officedweller]

From the Courier - not unexpected - just like the restrictions around, say Langara...

City's upcoming open houses to target 'Canada Line' parking
City may prohibit non-resident parking near stations

Cheryl Rossi, Vancouver Courier
Published: Friday, November 21, 2008

The city wants to nip clashes between commuters and neighbours of Canada Line stations in the bud.

That's why it's holding open houses on residential parking near Canada Line stations along Cambie Street, starting this weekend. The city wants to know what those who live within 400 metres--or a five-minute walk--of a Canada Line station think about its plans and hear whether any unique aspects of the station areas should be considered.

"We have learned from other rapid transit stations in the city that rapid transit stations can attract people to drive to the station and park in the neighbourhood and hop on the rapid transit," said Carli Edwards, parking management engineer with the city.

The city proposes erecting resident-only parking signs in single-family areas. The signs would prohibit parking except for those who live on specific blocks. Residents wouldn't have pay for annual parking permits. Edwards said it would be up to neighbours to communicate with one another about visitors and service vehicles. Neighbours can phone parking enforcement to report vehicles that don't belong.

For areas with a mix of single-family homes, multi-family dwellings and businesses, the city proposes permit parking. Residents would have to present their identification and prove their car is registered to an address in that area in order to receive a permit.

The city currently charges $30 to $60 annually for parking permits. Residents of the West End pay $60 because parking is at a premium there and the subsequent demands on parking enforcement are great. Edwards expects permit-parking rates around the Canada Line Stations to be less than $60, but says city council will have the final say.

The first consultation, on Nov. 22, is about the King Edward Station. The city hopes to draw residents from roughly West 21st to 29th avenues, between Columbia and Heather streets. It runs from 12:30 to 3 p.m. at the Douglas Park Community Centre, 801 West 22nd Ave.

The second consultation, on Nov. 25, concerns the Marine Drive Station. It will run from 5:30 to 8:30 p.m. at the Marpole-Oakridge Community Centre, 990 West 59th Ave.

The final consultation concerns the 41st and 49th avenue stations, and is on Dec. 1 at the St. John Ambulance Centre, 6111 Cambie St.

City staff will present participants with maps and information boards, answer questions and collect a structured feedback form.

Neighbours who can't make meetings can respond to information the city will post on its website, www.vancouver.ca, following each open house.

Edwards expects parking plans to be finalized in the spring.

The Canada Line is slated to open on or before Nov. 30, 2009. Construction is currently ahead of schedule. Ridership is expected to be 100,000 people per day with fairly balanced north-south traffic.

Alan Dever, director of communications for the Canada Line, says 85 to 90 per cent of riders are expected to travel north-south on the Vancouver-to-Richmond line, with only 10 to 15 per cent of passengers travelling on the branch line to the airport.

The station near West Broadway and city hall is expected to be one of the busiest, Dever said.

To accommodate those who drive from southern suburbs of Vancouver, a parkade is being constructed near the Bridgeport Station at the River Rock Casino Resort. It will have 1,200 spots dedicated to park-and-ride transit users from 5:30 a.m. to 7 p.m. on business days. These spots are proposed to cost $2 a day. Spaces will also be available to transit users during off-peak hours.

A significant bus loop will serve the Marine Drive Station, with bus loops also at the Bridgeport and Richmond-Brighouse stations.

© Vancouver Courier 2008

Letter responding to Malcom Johnston:

Canada Line on budget

Richmond News
Published: Friday, November 21, 2008

The Editor,

Re: "Will premier ride Canada Line?" News, Letters, Nov. 19.

Malcolm Johnston's letter to the editor "Will premier ride Canada Line?" contains an astonishing assertion that Canada Line costs have doubled over the course of the project.

He bases his comments on work done by a coalition opposed to building the Canada Line down Cambie Street in Vancouver.

Let's set the record straight. The price for the Canada Line was fixed when the contract was signed to build the line.

It was only then the price was established for the agreed upon scope of work. Costs estimates that had been done in the years before varied widely, depending on what was included in the work. Mr. Johnston has chosen to provide a low estimate not the full range but hey, he has his agenda.

Bottom line is, in today's dollars, the contract price for the Canada Line was set at $2.05 billion. The taxpayer's contribution to the project is fixed at $1.3 billion.

The project remains on budget, not over budget.

That's quite the achievement given rising construction costs that we have seen over the last few years.

And despite opponents' claims to the contrary, Canada Line is on schedule to open on or before Nov. 30 of next year.

Alan Dever,

Canada Line Rapid Transit Inc.

© Richmond News 2008

[SpongeG]

Vancouver should do what Burnaby has done around a lot of its stations

in Burnaby they have commuter parking meters on the side streets around the stations - you pay $3 for 12 hours of parking time - its free after 6 pm however...

they all get filled up too

[CLC]

Notice some new Pics @ flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/iwona_kellie/

Canada Line station @ Broadway and Cambie Street


Canada Line station @ West King Edward Avenue

[raggedy13]

^Great find, thanks CLC.

I think in the third photo you can see those funky orange/yellow tiles on the walls (with a protective lining over them) shown in some of the earlier station renderings:

[deasine]

glad to know they aren't orange? =P I would've thought they would've been more like oak stained panels... that would've been nice! Too bad we have more fake ikea wood

[The_Henry_Man]

Thanks a lot for the pics!!

I think Broadway-City Hall will be one of the best looking underground stations in the entire Skytrain system, and looks pretty spacious too.

But King Edward Stn looks pretty claustrophobic, at least from the pics.