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  #1941  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mick View Post
I'd prefer the city not grant demo permits for architecturally significant buildings (e.g. Hemingway's Corbussier inspired Church on 116st). However, given that it's difficult to ensure that they're all given adequate protection, I'd love to see the city tie granting development permits to actual time sensitive building contracts with actual contracts. Given that it is difficult arrange financing when there are unknowns, such as city permits, make the contracts and financing conditional upon the city issuing the permit - as soon as the city does the developer is on the hook for pulling out.
No. It is not in the interest of the City of Edmonton to concern themselves with a developers obligation / responsibility to arrange construction contracts or financing.

Regardless, a developer is still required to submit a Building Permit after a Development Permit has been issued.

If a developer decides to pull out before building then that's their own problem. They paid their fees and there is no loss to the City.
     
     
  #1942  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 5:06 PM
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Speculating, not really given that this has already had a preconsultation in front of the EDC on Sept 29th.
I had no idea? I thought all we had was a picture...
     
     
  #1943  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mick View Post
KA is one sweet looking building...however, given what the paltry historic inventory we have left, I'm not willing to give up the Mercer. In light of our history, we'd give the demo permit, see the Mercer knocked down, the sight left empty for a year or three, before the owner applies for a surface parking permit or so value engineers the building, we end up with a Panache.
As someone familair with the HA Zone and the proposed revisions to it through the new Downtown Plan, I am not at all convinced that this so-called "KA" building is in tune with the zoning. I am all for modern interpretations of the HA zone but I simply don't see it in the rendering we saw, nor a correlation to the existing or proposed Downtown Plan policies related to 104 Street/Warehouse Heritage Area.
     
     
  #1944  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 5:23 PM
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What are the chances we see this KA building built in another area if the warehouse location fails?
     
     
  #1945  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 5:53 PM
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What are the chances we see this KA building built in another area if the warehouse location fails?
all anyone needs to do to see it is to buy the dirt and spend the money...

and if anyone wants to increase the odds of anyone else doing it, the question isn't "what are the chances" but "how big a deposit cheque do i have to write and to whom".

until one of those - and it will be the second - happens with some regularity, i wouldn't hold my breath for the first.
     
     
  #1946  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 8:16 PM
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November 20, 2008
Edmonton Journal
Todd Babiuk
Portrait of a prime minister with no use for Edmonton Even without its own money at risk, federal government couldn’t abide notion of a national gallery in Canada’s forgotten city
Today, Liberal Senator Larry Grafstein will introduce a private member’s bill to build the Portrait Gallery of Canada in Ottawa.

In the spirit of co-operation and bipartisanship, someversion or spirit of the bill will probably pass, either formally or informally. The insulting saga of the proposed gallery, andwhatit says about politics in Edmonton, in Alberta and in Canada, will soon come to an end.

The original site of the gallery was to be in the old U.S. embassy, not far from the Parliament Buildings. Under Jean Chretien, the federal government spent millions renovating the property.

Then, in 2006, whenthe Conservatives under Stephen Harper won a minority government, they halted progress onthe building and struck a deal with EnCana, which would include the Portrait Gallery of Canada in its spectacular newhighrise in downtown Calgary.

This backroom deal was a terrible political miscalculation. It enraged people in Ottawa and embarrassed Calgarians, who were looking for all that fairness and transparency Canada’s new government had been promising.

So the Conservatives made a foolish —: They opened the bidding process to nine cities and designed a request for proposals that asked for privatesector leadership, financial security and assurances that the many thousands of paintings and photographs in the collection would be properly handled.

Of the four bids, two were from Edmonton. The other two, from Calgary and Ottawa, were led by municipal governments. Only Qualico and Dub Architects from Edmonton followed the rules. As Mayor Stephen Mandel said in October: “If it’s done in a fair and equitable way, without any political interference, we should be getting a portrait gallery. Our applications are the only ones that fit the criteria.”

Yet after six months of silence, Heritage Minister James Moore announced late on Friday, Nov. 7, that the process had cometo a conclusion. There would be no Portrait Gallery of Canada, not now.

“In this time of global economic uncertainty, it is important that the federal government continue to manageits affairs prudently and pragmatically,” Moore said in a prepared statement.

None of the proposals met the government’s requirements, he said. But Canadians wouldstill see the remarkable collection, through touring exhibitions.
Noonewithanyfamiliarity with the request for proposals or with politics believed a word of it.

Mandel was shocked. Alberta Culture Minister Lindsay Blackett was outraged.

Anyone whoknowsanything about the cost of transporting art across the country was amused.

Ken Cantor of Qualico and Gene Dub of DubArchitects had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and had put up $1 million for the right to be considered. They were just as upset, but looked forward to speaking with the federal government.

So far, there still hasn’t been any meaningful communication with the applicants. “There was a short note,” Dubsaid Wednesday. “But it was a form letter. I think I read something in the newspaper from the minister about transparency. That’s as close as I’ve come to the individual information they say they’ve given us.”

Like Dub, Cantor has the $1 million back, but no explanation.

“If they want to turn around and be honest and say, ‘You know what, we just don’t want to do this,’ well, that’s fine. But this silence, pretending it had something to dowith money, it’s just salt in the wound.”

The Alberta government was putting up $40 million. Qualico and Dub Architects were planning to put up the two buildings anyway. It would have been, as Dub has written in The Journal, “a $50-million gift to the government of Canada for the honour of having the National Portrait Gallery in Edmonton.”

For Cantor, the economic justification makes nosense. “First, it’s too expensive, even though we’re fitting the bill out here. Then, the prime minister walks out of a first ministers conference and says we have to gear up more infrastructure investment to get us through a recession. Which is it?”


There is only one conclusion that makes any sense: The Harper Conservatives could not abide a Portrait Gallery of Canada in Edmonton, Alta.
     
     
  #1947  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 8:23 PM
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No doubt Edmonton got snubbed by the PC's on this. As "Canada's culture capital" the gallery would have been fitting for the city, even moreso given both proposals' proximity to the ever developing downtown arts & culture district.

Of course we'll never really know why they made the decisions they did, The PCs have been notoriously secretive during their tenure in office, so don't expect any straight talk from the government. I hope the DUB's proposal proceeds and is used as another venue, as the rebuilt historic Alberta Hotel could be yet another centrepiece in our developing downtown.
     
     
  #1948  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 8:45 PM
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Heard Ken on the radio this morning. Stick it to 'em!

Now I'm hearing that the old US embassy in Ottawa might get it?
     
     
  #1949  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 8:51 PM
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^^ First of all, don't call this government PC, it is not one bit progressive.
This whole scenario really makes me sick. It is clear that the conservatives want to have the gallery in Calgary. I would not be surprised if they build it on their own dime in Calgary in a year or two.
     
     
  #1950  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 8:58 PM
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^ I don't think the Cons care any more about Calgary than they do about Edmonton. They certainly haven't done either city any favors since taking office.

And why would they ? Calgary is solid tory blue, Edmonton is mostly so, there's no incentive to woo either city. Harper may own a house down there but deep down he's Bay street all the way. The only reason he's even in Calgary is because that's the only place he was guaranteed a seat in one of Canadas large cities.
     
     
  #1951  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2008, 9:42 PM
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Gotta agree with the gallery article. Edmonton got screwed (potentially Calgary and Ottawa too) by all of this. The way it is all being handled is not good for anyone.

Have the tories done anything of real value to Alberta's cities? nope.
     
     
  #1952  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 2:01 AM
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Anyone else see the green flash in the sky like I did? How interesting was that? I thought it was lightning at first.
     
     
  #1953  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 2:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TimB09 View Post
Anyone else see the green flash in the sky like I did? How interesting was that? I thought it was lightning at first.
was that at about 5:30?

I thought someone took my picture.

Im out in st. Albert... thought for a second there I needed a vacation as I was seeing flases
     
     
  #1954  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 3:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin_foster View Post
Heard Ken on the radio this morning. Stick it to 'em!

Now I'm hearing that the old US embassy in Ottawa might get it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
Gotta agree with the gallery article. Edmonton got screwed (potentially Calgary and Ottawa too) by all of this. The way it is all being handled is not good for anyone.

Have the tories done anything of real value to Alberta's cities? nope.
thanks kevin - 26 minute phone interview for an 8 second clip but i'm always happy just to not come across as a blithering idiot.

as for the u.s. embassy "getting it", you can read it here:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/11/19/portrait-gallery.html

or listen to it at the beginning of wednesday's "q" podcast from:

http://www.cbc.ca/podcasting/pastpodcasts.html?42#ref42

and wooster, it's not just edmonton or calgary or ottawa that is getting screwed in the big picture, it's the whole country.

as posted elsewhere (if the mods are okay with it - i posted it):

"so senator grafstein is quite happy to offer the rest of the country a "virtual gallery" is he? perhaps the rest of the country might wonder why what's good enough elsewhere isn't good enough for the senator.

over the past 140 years we have developed one of the most envied countries in the world without the benefit of having a national portrait gallery in ottawa. and neither ottawa nor the rest of the country will go to h3ll in a handbasket if one is built in edmonton or victoria or moncton - we will likely survive the next 140 years as well as we survived the last 140 years - quite nicely thank you very much. and if it is built somewhere else, ottawa can still view it "on line" ...

and in between screen visits at least ottawa can still visit the art gallery of canada and the museum of man and scores of other treasures too far away for the rest of us to ever know but that have to be in ottawa, even if the basement of a hotel is the best that can done for them.

ottawa was not required to spend a single capital penny under the rfp they wrote and cancelled so cancelling won't save a single capital penny. if senator grafstein is successful, ottawa won't be richer for it but the rest of country will certainly be poorer because of it both financially and culturally.

only in ottawa you say? pity
."
     
     
  #1955  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 6:22 AM
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Originally Posted by cdnklc View Post
thanks kevin - 26 minute phone interview for an 8 second clip but i'm always happy just to not come across as a blithering idiot.

as for the u.s. embassy "getting it", you can read it here:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/11/19/portrait-gallery.html

or listen to it at the beginning of wednesday's "q" podcast from:

http://www.cbc.ca/podcasting/pastpodcasts.html?42#ref42

and wooster, it's not just edmonton or calgary or ottawa that is getting screwed in the big picture, it's the whole country.

as posted elsewhere (if the mods are okay with it - i posted it):

"so senator grafstein is quite happy to offer the rest of the country a "virtual gallery" is he? perhaps the rest of the country might wonder why what's good enough elsewhere isn't good enough for the senator.

over the past 140 years we have developed one of the most envied countries in the world without the benefit of having a national portrait gallery in ottawa. and neither ottawa nor the rest of the country will go to h3ll in a handbasket if one is built in edmonton or victoria or moncton - we will likely survive the next 140 years as well as we survived the last 140 years - quite nicely thank you very much. and if it is built somewhere else, ottawa can still view it "on line" ...

and in between screen visits at least ottawa can still visit the art gallery of canada and the museum of man and scores of other treasures too far away for the rest of us to ever know but that have to be in ottawa, even if the basement of a hotel is the best that can done for them.

ottawa was not required to spend a single capital penny under the rfp they wrote and cancelled so cancelling won't save a single capital penny. if senator grafstein is successful, ottawa won't be richer for it but the rest of country will certainly be poorer because of it both financially and culturally.

only in ottawa you say? pity
."
I think pointing the blame at Senator Grafstein is totally misdirected. The National Portrait Gallery should be in our nations capital -- that is where it belongs. But that said, once the Conservatives opened the process up I was rooting for you or Gene Dub to win. Either proposal would have been spectacular.

The real villains in all this are the Conservatives; they wasted millions already spent on the NPG's home at the US Embassy, they gave a lousy excuse to all the four groups vying for the gallery and they made a clearly political move that demonstrates just how much they value voters from Alberta.

Regardless of your politics, don't give the Conservatives a pass on this one because they deserve to get their hands slapped.
     
     
  #1956  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 6:48 PM
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I don't want to mention this in the Calgary thread because it seems to be a touchy subject; and someone already posted this - but I too am hearing rumors that the Bow in Calgary will be put on hold.

Thoughts? Don't know if I believe it 100%. This would be horrible for Alberta
     
     
  #1957  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin_foster View Post
I don't want to mention this in the Calgary thread because it seems to be a touchy subject; and someone already posted this - but I too am hearing rumors that the Bow in Calgary will be put on hold.

Thoughts? Don't know if I believe it 100%. This would be horrible for Alberta
Don't believe it. It's —.

It's only touchy because we've been putting up with endless rumour-mongering for weeks over "cancelled" projects and The Bow is the most outrageous one of them all. And some people *looks to Vancouver forums* actually seem to want it to fail.

I swear, someone at Canwest is deliberately trolling us. The bastards.
     
     
  #1958  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Boris2k7 View Post
Don't believe it. It's —.

It's only touchy because we've been putting up with endless rumour-mongering for weeks over "cancelled" projects and The Bow is the most outrageous one of them all. And some people *looks to Vancouver forums* actually seem to want it to fail.

I swear, someone at Canwest is deliberately trolling us. The bastards.

Anything is possible these days, it is highly unlikely to happen but with the price of oil and other commodities dropping like a stone and a credit crunch it is likely the contractors will be going down to skeleton crews and the construction process will be dragged out.
     
     
  #1959  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 8:05 PM
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Why would anyone want it to fail? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. A Norman Foster in Alberta? Yes please. Don't care what city it's in.
     
     
  #1960  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2008, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Citysource View Post
As someone familair with the HA Zone and the proposed revisions to it through the new Downtown Plan, I am not at all convinced that this so-called "KA" building is in tune with the zoning. I am all for modern interpretations of the HA zone but I simply don't see it in the rendering we saw, nor a correlation to the existing or proposed Downtown Plan policies related to 104 Street/Warehouse Heritage Area.
Contrast can be a very good thing. Not every building should have to mimic the old.

http://www.cdnarchitect.com/issues/ISart...id=59525143823&issue=11012007&PC=&RType=
     
     
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