McMaster Innovation Park | ? | various | Construction

[flar]

The B-Line is currently a waste west of downtown. It doesn't properly service the most important areas for transit, which are McMaster and Dundas. It only serves McMaster if you're going to the Hospital--trust me, the walk from Main to the back of campus (everything except engineering and hospital) is prohibitive. It also doesn't serve Dundas. University Plaza is not a good spot for the terminus, it's barely used. There are many bus riders in Dundas (and could be many more) if the B Line went to the busiest transit stop in Dundas--at Ogilvie and Governeror's. If the B Line went to Ogilvie and Governors and through the University, its ridership would probably more than quadruple.

[adam]

If you don't care about the social aspect, then consider it in a cold strictly economical sense... ignoring 20,000 individuals with money to spend is just plain stupid.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

nobody is suggesting that LRT exclusively serve campus. But it needs to serve campus PROPERLY. University students are going to be huge riders of LRT (assuming it comes anywhere near them).
It can stay on Main, but come up into the middle of campus to properly serve the campus.

Ok one last post here on this because we are once again way off topic and Mac Innovation Centre is getting lost in this side discussion...

When the LRT is constructed it simply cannot intersect the campus because the campus is private property. It is one thing for Mac to give approval for a city bus to use their private roads on campus. It is a completely different thing to expect the university to cede a swath of property to the city to accomodate the LRT's lines of track.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by adam

If you don't care about the social aspect, then consider it in a cold strictly economical sense... ignoring 20,000 individuals with money to spend is just plain stupid.

But they are not being ignored. Service is not being eliminated, just redirected. And, as pointed out, the University and Delaware buses continue to serve the university.

and from an economic point of view, I'd have to ask myself this: When investing significant capital on a new endeavor, will my target market be designed to cater to an existing market of significantly discounted fare structure, or will I try to open up the market to attract a demographic that will be paying full fare?

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by adam

The CRL building was next to Main St though - far away from main campus. I did my thesis under Haykin... is the CRL building still there?

I think the CRL building has been kind of debranded from what it was in the past, which is a shame considering all the signal processing types are still in the department. There's still some ECE in the building last I checked over a year ago (including Haykin's office), but they've moved some other stuff in (Eng Phys?).

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I was at Main/Longwood the other day and couldn't find the westbound stop. I'll have to look again.
U of T isn't an isolated suburban-style business park removed from the city. They have a subway running along University Ave and streetcar lines along College/Queen/Spadina etc.... It's a proper urban university.

I don't think that taking buses out of the campus is a very good idea, but I do very much like the way that McMaster is set up as its own self-contained world.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

But they are not being ignored. Service is not being eliminated, just redirected. And, as pointed out, the University and Delaware buses continue to serve the university.

and from an economic point of view, I'd have to ask myself this: When investing significant capital on a new endeavor, will my target market be designed to cater to an existing market of significantly discounted fare structure, or will I try to open up the market to attract a demographic that will be paying full fare?

I don't know that McMaster is of that discounted a fare structure. Students who make use of the HSR certainly pay much less than they would otherwise, but I believe that all undergrads pay for HSR service, whether they use it or not. I imagine that it adds up to a pretty big chunk of change.

[highwater]

Originally Posted by BCTed

I don't think that taking buses out of the campus is a very good idea, but I do very much like the way that McMaster is set up as its own self-contained world.

They behave as though they're a self-contained world, but of course they're not. No university is an island. They've simply downloaded their housing, policing, traffic, trucking, and parking problems onto the community. Must be nice running a large institution without having to worry about the consequences of your planning decisions.

[adam]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

But they are not being ignored. Service is not being eliminated, just redirected. And, as pointed out, the University and Delaware buses continue to serve the university.

and from an economic point of view, I'd have to ask myself this: When investing significant capital on a new endeavor, will my target market be designed to cater to an existing market of significantly discounted fare structure, or will I try to open up the market to attract a demographic that will be paying full fare?

I agree with you, expanding service is great... BUT why take away service from a large demographic that spends money like its going out of style? .. even if its OSAP or parents' funds .. the city should be trying to get this demographic downtown, and the reduced fare is just one way to encourage it.

[raisethehammer]

every single student pays the discounted fare rate. And I can promise you that all 20,000 aren't using the HSR.
Of course with convenient, on-campus LRT, their fare rate would likely go up.
And yes, students are one of the most common demographic groups on any subway/light rail system that I've ever ridden. It's a no-brainer to run LRT onto campus.

[markbarbera]

This is becoming too circular an argument, but I'll try to make my point one last time. The city would not construct LRT traversing into Mac campus because the campus is private property. They will however construct a line abutting the campus. This is keeping with the manner in which private campuses are treated practically everywhere else. And, quite frankly, is more than sufficient an arrangement for serving the demographics of McMaster University. Service is not being taken away from the campus, it is simply being provided in a different manner. Those wishing the express line can catch it at Main West. Those who don't want to do the ten minute walk to Main West can catch the local University bus service to downtown. Or take the University westbound from the Sterling stop to Main and Emerson, then transfer onto the LRT there.

[flar]

All buses are being routed off campus in the next few years. McMaster is a daily destination for nearly 30,000 people. The fare structure is something for HSR's accountants to worry about, since the HSR's priority is transit service, not profit. Realistically, there are potential new riders west of McMaster, but that is a tiny pool compared to existing users and potential new users connected to Mac. After downtown, it's the largest destination for transit users by a wide margin. Mac, Dundas, and the medium density area on Main West where it turns toward Ancaster are the major centres of transit use west of downtown. As the largest of those, McMaster will be a major factor as to whether LRT is a success.

[geoff's two cents]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

This is becoming too circular an argument, but I'll try to make my point one last time. The city would not construct LRT traversing into Mac campus because the campus is private property. They will however construct a line abutting the campus. This is keeping with the manner in which private campuses are treated practically everywhere else.

There's no arguing with this, I'm afraid, but I think what most of the people on this forum would like to see is some cooperation between the city and the school.

Originally Posted by markbarbera

And, quite frankly, is more than sufficient an arrangement for serving the demographics of McMaster University. Service is not being taken away from the campus, it is simply being provided in a different manner. Those wishing the express line can catch it at main West. Those who don't want to do the ten minute walk to Main West can catch the local University bus service to downtown.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this. See my discussion of these issues at length above, in which I explain why the campus is being served less efficiently by the new route. I forgot to add in that section that, in addition to serving a student population higher than the city of Dundas, there are commuting faculty and staff to be considered.

I partially agree with what you say above regarding reaching a new demographic of transit riders on Main and south of Main. If the city had plans to re-zone and densify this corridor, thus making it a more transit-oriented community, this might make some sense. Otherwise, it does not. The city would run the risk of losing some substantial Westdale-to-downtown and downtown-to-campus ridership, in order to achieve the meagre gains of running rapid transit down what is by comparison a sparsely-populated and car-oriented corridor.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by geoff's two cents

The city would run the risk of losing some substantial Westdale-to-downtown and downtown-to-campus ridership, in order to achieve the meagre gains of running rapid transit down what is by comparison a sparsely-populated and car-oriented corridor.

But that's the thing, they won't be losing this ridership. Rather, this ridership will be served by either the B-Line to the southern end of the campus, or by the local service to the northern end of the campus.A trip on the B-line from downtown to Mac takes 10 minutes. On the University bus, the same trip takes 14 minutes. Not a big deal at all. And those who wish to take the B-line to Mac from futher afield can always get off at Main and Emerson and transfer onto the eastbound University bus, which will drop them off at the Sterling Street entrance to the campus.

[SteelTown]

Direct all other LRT discussion here --> Rapid Transit

[SteelTown]

Not sure if this is the Camco building.

[raisethehammer]

yup, it definitely appears to be, although it only looks like it's 2 floors, unless that's just the top atrium area. I thought that atrium section would run through the entire height of the building.

[SteelTown]

Now that the federal election is over you'll likely see a opening ground ceremony with shovels for CANMET soon.

[SteelTown]

Excavation begins any day now for CANMET.

[crhayes]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Excavation begins any day now for CANMET.

Awesome....every time I drive down to Mac I take Longwood just to see if it has started lol...I have been waiting a looong time.

MIP is going to be beautiful when all is said and done.