The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

true, but maybe not one of those fancy-accordian-extra-length super buses

We have had those things running around Ottawa for several years now. They are great....in three seasons. But get a snowfall of more than 8 or 10 centimetres and watch 'em have fun especially on the hills or any deep snow drifts/banks.

The problem is they are rear wheel drive but the rear of the bus simply follows the front and is not active in steering. I think you can see the problem here. They would be much better if they had the rear wheels of the front section driving the bus. Perhaps the ones SJ Transit are looking at are of a better design. Let's hope so.

BTW, I would love to see train service re-established with direct service to Montreal.

It's no wonder train service got cut. the last time I looked you had to go to Moncton on an interurban car(more or less) and then transfer to another train which lazily meandered through the north shore. I did take it once. It took 24 hours to get from Kingston Ont. to Saint John. I swore off it after that experience. I believe Saint John to Montreal was was under 12 hours - no speed demon but better by 2 at least. If they really tried they could fix that track up and compete with the airlines. Of course the business has to be there, but it is something that is possible in the future.

[random11]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

We have had those things running around Ottawa for several years now. They are great....in three seasons. But get a snowfall of more than 8 or 10 centimetres and watch 'em have fun especially on the hills or any deep snow drifts/banks.

The problem is they are rear wheel drive but the rear of the bus simply follows the front and is not active in steering. I think you can see the problem here. They would be much better if they had the rear wheels of the front section driving the bus. Perhaps the ones SJ Transit are looking at are of a better design. Let's hope so.

BTW, I would love to see train service re-established with direct service to Montreal.

It's no wonder train service got cut. the last time I looked you had to go to Moncton on an interurban car(more or less) and then transfer to another train which lazily meandered through the north shore. I did take it once. It took 24 hours to get from Kingston Ont. to Saint John. I swore off it after that experience. I believe Saint John to Montreal was was under 12 hours - no speed demon but better by 2 at least. If they really tried they could fix that track up and compete with the airlines. Of course the business has to be there, but it is something that is possible in the future.

Good point(s). The funny thing about the loss of the train service to Montreal is that at the time it was being talked about being eliminated, the Fed's made a public statement: use it or lose it. What's odd is that people did USE it and seats were almost sold out on all trips following that announcement but they went ahead and cut it anyway. It reminds me of the Air Traffic Control Tower at the airport: It was a multi-million dollar tower and at the time, the most sophisticated one of its kind in Atlantic Canada and less than a year after it was constructed, the Fed's moved all NB Air Traffic Control to Moncton and now we have an empty tower. Ah yes, the Fed's. Lol

[PostModernPrometheus]

$275-mill just announced for completing Highway 1 twinning over the next few years . . . better roads = better business

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

$275-mill just announced for completing Highway 1 twinning over the next few years . . . better roads = better business

That's great news.

Funds to Twin Route 1
September 05, 2008
Tim Roszell News 88-9 Staff

SAINT JOHN, NB - The drive from Saint John to Calais, Maine is going to be a lot safer as a result of a huge infrastructure announcement yesterday.

The provincial and federal governments have announced that by 2014 the last stretch of Route 1 will be twinned thanks to a $275 million pledge.

Premier, Shawn Graham says, "It's great news for southern New Brunswick."

The work will also include rehabilitation work to 30 kms of existing four-lane highway.

The cost of the project will be shared between the federal and provincial governments.

The province says the work will reduce fatal accidents on the busy stretch of road by 90 per cent.

[PostModernPrometheus]

The more I think about it, the more I keep wondering about all the benefits of improved rail lines. . . . from a commercial perspective much moreso than passenger (though i WOULD like to see that as well...restoring the montreal route through the US northeast . . . )

either way, i think it's still a necessity to have the major highways in the province all twinned....

however, less heavy trucks on the road = less road wear = cheaper maintenance. (one fully loaded 18 wheeler, or so i've heard = 10,000 cars in terms of the road wear). . . also, less trucks & more trains (i would GUESS) is cleaner on the environement from an emissions standpoint . . . .

now, i know we have a fair number (or at least very long) of freight-trains on a daily basis coming in & out of saint john (mostly liquid / petroleum transport, by the looks of it) and i'd guess that as the potash mine in sussex expands and is shipped more through the port & the energy sector expands we'll see more of this. . . i just wonder if there's any imminent political / economic push to seriously expand the rail market in the coming years.....

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by random11

Ah yes, the Fed's. Lol

lmao...well, they're maybe not always logical, but they ARE predictable

sorry...i'll stop with the Fed bashing....

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

BTW, I would love to see train service re-established with direct service to Montreal.

It's no wonder train service got cut. the last time I looked you had to go to Moncton on an interurban car(more or less) and then transfer to another train which lazily meandered through the north shore. I did take it once. It took 24 hours to get from Kingston Ont. to Saint John. I swore off it after that experience. I believe Saint John to Montreal was was under 12 hours - no speed demon but better by 2 at least. If they really tried they could fix that track up and compete with the airlines. Of course the business has to be there, but it is something that is possible in the future.

true, and as the airline rates keep crawling up (with the assumption jet fuel prices of course will continue to climb) i'm sure there will be some entrepreneurial soul who will pitch the idea. . . if theres money to be made, someone will make it happen....

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

either way, i think it's still a necessity to have the major highways in the province all twinned....

I imagine it will be a access controlled highway complete with exits to bypass the small towns from St. George to St. Stephen. That would add to the cost of a project like this but is a step forward for sure. Being able to drive 110-120 all the way to the border will speed things up.

[Joe]

Great news. Now if they would only twin Highway 7.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Does the cruise terminal look like it might not be ready by the end of the season? Considering the glass isn't finished and the inside will take some effort to finish, I'm not sure that will be done this year.

Elsewhere on the waterfront, the Three Sisters Park looks good - the red sidewalk is already down.

[kwajo]

Some informal, off-the-record, news:
I went to a workshop yesterday on the Integrated Community Sustainability Plan [ICSP] with a large number of city staff and some outside stakeholder groups and I will say that while there is a lot of bureaucracy to get through there are a lot of positive, productive thoughts circling around about how to make SJ better in the future and how to keep the momentum of the energy boom going forward so that we don't see the city crash again like it has in the past. We're finally learning from the mistakes of the past, and trying to find solutions that can benefit the whole community, not just a single municipality or single industry. The ICSP will be going to public meetings in October too, so we'll see what comes out of these exercises.

And this isn't ICSP related, but I've been hearing rumors about some big projects on the way for the city too, stuff I definitely don't fully understand, or am not allowed to talk or know about, but it still gets me a bit giddy

[Sabien]

Originally Posted by kwajo

And this isn't ICSP related, but I've been hearing rumors about some big projects on the way for the city too, stuff I definitely don't fully understand, or am not allowed to talk or know about, but it still gets me a bit giddy

Ahh, how about at least the smallest, little indication about the nature of these projects...even a general, hypothetical example...anything...I, too, get giddy when I hear good news for Saint John.

[Helladog]

The hurdles of housing

Development An uptown church must cut through a sea of red tape before it builds a much-needed housing complex in the south end

Dave MacLean
Telegraph-Journal

SAINT JOHN - The uptown will soon be getting another major housing development, if a proposal by the Church of St. Andrew and St. David clears the necessary rezoning hurdles.


Noel Chenier/Telegraph-Journal
Peter Jollymore stands in a Charlotte Street parking lot where the owner – the Church of St. Andrew and St. David – is proposing a housing complex that will include as many as 55 subsidized units.

The church owns a parcel of land that is just under an acre in size at the corner of Charlotte and Duke streets. In recent years, the church has operated the property as a parking lot in partnership with the city's parking commission, but church officials felt it was time to try to make better use of the land. Church spokesman Peter Jollymore says a housing development would fit the bill.

Jollymore said the church borrowed money when it purchased the property in the 1990s.

"The agreement we entered into with the parking commission was that after capital costs for fixing it up and operating expenses like snow removal and so on, we ended up splitting the revenue between the parking commission and ourselves and we used that revenue to pay off the loan," he said. "The debt is retired and the agreement has come to an end. If we had carried on using it as a parking lot, with the debt retired, we'd probably be looking at about $35,000 a year of income to the church."

But, he said, the church isn't in the business of parking lot ownership. There has to be a better use for land in the south-central peninsula.

"About four years ago, we hired someone to take a look at the issues in the community - the south end - and certainly housing was one of the big issues the came to the forefront," said Jollymore. "We concluded that we should be able to do more with that property than to park cars. We started working on the idea of doing some sort of a housing complex."

Jollymore said the church has been approved for funding through the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation and it started preliminary work last year.

"Through the fall and early winter, we did a feasibility study and developed some preliminary plans," he said. "The basic concept that we came up with was that we could build a complex that would house upward of 90 units."

He said the tentative plan is to have town house units bordering Charlotte Street with a four-storey complex sitting atop underground parking at the centre of the property. He said the church has tentative approval from NB Housing to have 55 subsidized units and about 30 market-based units.

The church had analysis of the market done that showed there is demand for mostly one- and two-bedroom units.

Jollymore said the federal-provincial agreement that provided money for the project expires next year, so there's some urgency in getting the development underway.

"We're under a bit of time pressure," he said.

"We want to break ground no later than the end of October. Under the NB Housing program, there's a grant of $30,000 per subsidized unit. That agreement between the province and federal governments expires at the end of March (2009) so we want to have at least that much of the money spent by then. We're anxious to get through these next approval steps and we want to break ground and have some of the project in place by the January-February time frame."

Because of the location, the development must be approved by the city's heritage development board. Then, it's an appearance before the planning advisory committee and finally, before common council for rezoning.

He said the church has a tentative date with the PAC on Sept. 9 and the earliest the church expects to appear before council is early October.

Jollymore said church officials were pleased with the result of a recent consultation session.

"We invited some of the residents in the neighbourhood to a meeting to get their reaction and concerns and input," he said. "It went quite well. There were some good questions, and overall some strong support for it. There were concerns about things such as increased traffic flow, but they seemed to feel comfortable with the extent to which we had thought some of those things through."

[Seely32]

Lose the NIMBY mindset: councillor

Dave MacLean
Telegraph-Journal

SAINT JOHN - Coun. Peter McGuire says Saint Johners must lose their NIMBY (not in my backyard) attitude and start embracing housing developments in the city.

Otherwise, the Ward 1 councillor warns, the city's housing crunch will only get worse as the energy hub transformation continues.

McGuire noted he was "extremely disappointed" to learn that Tannery Court Co-operative Inc. had withdrawn a rezoning request that would have paved the way for a 50-unit affordable housing development on Bentley Street at the site of the former King George School.

"When you get to a point where a developer says, 'We'd like to build,' and then pulls back due to opposition, it's frustrating," said McGuire, who's been an outspoken advocate for the need for additional affordable housing units in the city.

"But we have to move from frustration to some new thinking and some new strategies about how we can become more welcoming in our neighbourhoods to affordable housing. That's our responsibility - the onus comes back to us as a city and if we want to get people off that waiting list. We have to come up with a strategy - that's our purview.

"It may be in conjunction with the province, it may be in conjunction with Canada Mortgage and Housing, but we need to do some new thinking because we can't afford to lose those projects. We can't afford to lose one single unit."

Common council has seen a spike in the number of rezoning requests for high-density housing developments in recent months and some of the proposed projects have met with opposition, even though a waiting list for housing units, especially so-called affordable housing, includes several hundred names.

The Tannery Court group withdrew its rezoning application after the proposal met with objections from neighbouring residents.

The co-operative had previously developed a 40-unit housing complex in Moncton and a 50-unit complex in Fredericton. The organization was established to act as a catalyst for the development of safe, affordable housing for non-elderly singles.

"It may have been a density issue, it may have been a design issue - the bottom line is it doesn't matter how we lost it. We lost it," said McGuire. "And that's a developer with 30 years experience, they've developed in Fredericton and Moncton. I think back on Leinster Court and that battle, which shouldn't have been a battle because it's a gem.

"We also had objections to a project on the west side about a month ago too. So obviously, this isn't isolated thinking. I don't know if it's community ambivalence, but we have to do better community education. How do we put the welcome mat out for affordable housing? Not just allow them, but welcome them into the neighbourhood. We have to change some attitudes and you only do that through education."

McGuire said there are many groups and individuals that are actively working on the housing file. He says it's important to get the rest of the community on board and he thinks there would be little resistance to such projects if residents were aware of the quality of the developments.

"We've worked so hard as a community to put affordable housing on the municipal radar. We've got as good an advocacy group as anywhere in the country.

"Leinster Court took so much energy (to get the project approved and built) that we didn't celebrate it. Leinster Court is a Cadillac in that it was able to provide subsidized units and market units. I think that's the best model."

Ken Forrest, the city's planning commissioner, said city staff had approved the proposal and felt it was an appropriate development for the neighbourhood. He said the planning advisory committee had taken "a very different view" and had recommended the city reject the request.

Forrest said it's been his experience that as more of these developments are built, there is less opposition.

He noted it was his understanding that the co-operative is looking at alternative sites in the city.

Deputy Mayor Stephen Chase, who was chairing this week's council meeting in the absence of Mayor Ivan Court, noted that as a member of the parking commission he encouraged this group and any others that are looking at potential developments to feel free to contact the commission about possible sites.

[Seely32]

Facing a 'nice challenge'

Dave MacLean
Telegraph-Journal

SAINT JOHN - As a member of common council, Coun. Chris Titus welcomes new housing projects, particularly in the city's vulnerable neighbourhoods. But as chairman of the city's parking commission, he admits it poses a challenge when the proposed developments are being built on land being used as a parking lot.

It's a good compromise, the veteran municipal politician said of the looming loss of a lot at the corner of Charlotte and Duke streets. The Church of St. Andrew and St. David wants to build a housing project on the land, which has been used by the parking commission for the past number of years.

The church bought the land in the 1990s and Titus said in recent years the parking commission has used the lot for parking, with revenue split "to the benefit of both the church and the parking commission."

The lot in question had a capacity of about 110 cars and Titus admits the parking commission is in a bit of a bind to find alternatives before the winter, since the lot was also used by uptown residents during the winter overnight parking bans that allow for improved snow removal efforts.


"It was also a snow-ban lot in the winter and as more development happens within the city, which the parking commission is fully behind, some of these lots that we have used for parking have been turned over - the owners have wanted to develop on them," he said.

"As a matter of fact, we have lots that the developers are asking us to sell as we speak, for development purposes. We're at a stage now where we're going to have to do something fairly quickly and try to get some alternative spots for snow bans and for our regular customers, but we've got that pretty much under control."

Titus said the commission oversees a number of lots that are temporary - ones that the commission administers on behalf of the property owners in return for a share of the revenue. He said the commission is currently negotiating with the owners of the lot behind the Admiral Beatty and "we're constantly on the lookout for alternative locations to park vehicles, including working with Saint John Transit and trying to get some people out of their vehicles and onto transit or car-pooling.

"It creates a challenge, but it's a nice challenge to have and one that the parking commission takes on quite happily," said Titus. "Whenever you can give up a parking lot and somebody's going to develop it, like in the case of the church with the beautiful project that they have, the parking commission is fully behind that and we just have to step up to the challenge."

[Seely32]

Trade Improvement in Saint John-St. Stephen link seen enhancing Atlantic Gateway project
B6 SANDRA DAVIS
Telegraph-Journal

SAINT JOHN - The timing of an announcement that Highway 1 will be twinned and upgraded couldn't be better, says the chairman of the Saint John Board of Trade.

"This news is fantastic," said Michael Barry.

Word that the federal and provincial governments have agreed to share the cost of creating an uninterrupted four-lane highway from Halifax to the border at St. Stephen comes as Saint John anticipates a boom in energy-related projects.

"This project also complements the proposed east/west highway and utilities corridor in Maine slated for completion by 2014, which will enhance and strengthen the Atlantic Gateway project," Barry said.

Even more important, the twinning of the 27.5-kilometre stretch Highway 1 will improve safety, said Barry.

The twinning of the highway between Saint John and the border at St. Stephen has been a top priority for the board of trade for several years.

"We congratulate both the federal and provincial governments for their commitment to the region's development and safety," Barry said.

The $275-million investment will allow a four-lane highway to be built between Waweig and Pennfield, and will pay for improvements over 30 kilometres of existing four-lane sections of Highway 1 between Lepreau and the Highway 7 interchange. The work will allow tourists and goods to move faster and more safely between Atlantic Canada and the United States and make it easier to get products into U.S. markets.

Benefits Blueprint and Enterprise Saint John chairman Bob Manning says that, from the blueprint's perspective, it's one of the projects that has been anticipated and has been included in the financial plan.

"What this does is take Route 1 and twins it all the way through the province. We're the shortest distance to the U.S. through the province in Atlantic Canada. We've got millions of dollars invested in this border crossing at St. Stephen-Calais.

"It's going to be the newest, most technologically advanced crossing in Canada and so it makes sense to have the transportation infrastructure at its optimal in order to take advantage of it."

Also, he said, the federal and provincial governments' buy-in sends a strong signal to the state of Maine. "It's either going to be the state of Maine stepping or it's going to be the private sector stepping up.

"This is a very strategic component of the whole Atlantic Gateway strategy and really allows us to continue to move forward and deal with the issues we need to be a a significant player."

Mayor Ivan Court believes the revamped route will mean that foreign manufacturers will soon be eyeing Saint John as a place to set up business as a way of circumventing the free trade agreement.

The city's port and its three industrial parks also stand to gain, he said.

"The one at Spruce Lake has 2,000 acres that haven't been developed yet," said Court. "The infrastructure's in place for that to take off."

Saint John, predicts Court, will increase in stature as a result of the road work.

"We will be the energy hub, the technology hub and an education hub," he said.

"This will be one of the largest trade corridors in the world. With the energy requirements in the United States and so on, Saint John is ideally positioned to meet those needs."

Saint John needs the highway twinning if it is going to make the North American Free Trade Agreement work to its benefit, says Saint John-Portland MLA Trevor Holder.

"We're sitting right next to one of the richest markets in the world," he said. "We need the infrastructure in order to tie into that market.

"This is the next logical step in making the energy hub and the free-trade agreement work for us."

Premier Shawn Graham has said work on the stretch from Waweig to Pennfield should be completed by 2014.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by Seely32

Lose the NIMBY mindset: councillor

Dave MacLean
Telegraph-Journal

SAINT JOHN - Coun. Peter McGuire says Saint Johners must lose their NIMBY (not in my backyard) attitude and start embracing housing developments in the city.

Otherwise, the Ward 1 councillor warns, the city's housing crunch will only get worse as the energy hub transformation continues.

The mayor is off leading Irving anti-development actions to make his friends on the docks feel good, while projects like this go down the toilet.

Or maybe he's just some sort of parking fiend. Didn't he come up with quotes about how much revenue could be made from Long Wharf if it was made into a parking lot?

Seems like a pretty strange vision IMO.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by Helladog

The hurdles of housing

Because of the location, the development must be approved by the city's heritage development board. Then, it's an appearance before the planning advisory committee and finally, before common council for rezoning.

As far as I understand the heritage development step has been successfully completed - though maybe an official signature is needed.

As for zoning, the property is in a B-3 zone, which allows for basically the most intensive development for uptown projects. As the property is near residential zones, it is also allowed to have ground floor residential units. Perhaps some issues will need to be addressed.

Jollymore said church officials were pleased with the result of a recent consultation session.

The first consultation went great, and the neighbours seemed like they didn't object. We should be inviting the wider community into the conversation soon.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

As far as I understand the heritage development step has been successfully completed - though maybe an official signature is needed.

As for zoning, the property is in a B-3 zone, which allows for basically the most intensive development for uptown projects. As the property is near residential zones, it is also allowed to have ground floor residential units. Perhaps some issues will need to be addressed.



The first consultation went great, and the neighbours seemed like they didn't object. We should be inviting the wider community into the conversation soon.

Of all the possible projects in the city, I will be quite annoyed if this one sees any big hurdles, it represents a true positive growth for our urban core, and should be accepted with open arms. That said, the devil's in the details I suppose.



Anyone get out to see the flooding, or witness it first hand? I live Uptown and didn't turn on the radio or TV yesterday and therefore didn't even know that there had been any flooding problems until I arrived in to work this morning and got story after story of flooded roads, homes and businesses.
Chalk up one more advantage to development on our rocky, hilly Uptown core!

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Of all the possible projects in the city, I will be quite annoyed if this one sees any big hurdles, it represents a true positive growth for our urban core, and should be accepted with open arms. That said, the devil's in the details I suppose.



Anyone get out to see the flooding, or witness it first hand? I live Uptown and didn't turn on the radio or TV yesterday and therefore didn't even know that there had been any flooding problems until I arrived in to work this morning and got story after story of flooded roads, homes and businesses.
Chalk up one more advantage to development on our rocky, hilly Uptown core!

I didn't realize we had that much rain until I went out east yesterday; the Walmart parking lot was a lake as was some of Westmorland Road.