Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[skierforlife17]

Originally Posted by urbane

I have a connection to an engineering firm that is doing a lot of design work for them.

Thats incredible urbane .. If and when more information comes along to you that you are able to share please. please. please do so!


Also I dont know if everyone would fly for this idea or if everyone is to busy to do so, but it seems I'm out of the loop on what projects in downtown are on hold, what are in planning, and have been proposed (for example the building proposed on the main street location near regent). If someone has the time to create a new compilation of projects I would love to see it up on this board sometime !!

[T-Mac]

Three more TownePlace Suites hotels planned for Utah

By Barbara Rattle
The Enterprise

Marriott International plans to increase the presence of its TownePlace Suites extended stay brand in Utah by opening new hotels in Salt Lake City, Orem and Vernal.

Launched in 1997, there are currently two TownePlace Suites in Utah -- Layton and St. George.

Ground should be broken shortly on the northeast corner of 1200 West and 800 North in Orem for a 99-room TownePlace Suites. According to Jeff Flaherty, director of public relations for extended stay brands, the Orem facility, slated to open in December 2009, will be owned by Pennbridge Group LLC, an arm of Pennbridge Capital Management Co., Lehi; and managed by Zions Hospitality Management Services LLC, Provo.

A Salt Lake City hotel, near the airport, is slated to open in September 2009, will have 93 rooms and be owned and operated by Intermountain Management LLC of Monroe, La. It will be Intermountain's first hotel in Utah.

The Vernal TownePlace Suites, Flaherty said, will contain 85 rooms, is slated to open in May 2010 and will be owned by the Bingham family and operated by Zions Hospitality.

TownePlace Suites caters to moderate-tier, extended-stay guests. Each room contains a full kitchen and office facility. There are more than 148 porperties nationwide, with rates ranging from $76 to $96 per night, based on length of stay and other factors.

Amenities include 24/7 access to food and beverages, complimentary coffee served throughout the day, a center with free high-speed Internet access and printing, on-site faxing and copying, 24-hour staffing, housekeeping services based on length of stay, free local phone calls, an exercise room, outdoor swimming pool and grill at most locations and guest laundry. Pets are welcome for an additional fee.

[RFPCME]

Because I am an old geek who, like Ugly Betty, "know things that I do not know why I know them," I loved the recent energy discussion. But this thread is about development, not international economics and politics.

Tis true all development depends on money. NY Rick does a great job of reminding me that someone has to pay for the development I would like to see in SLC. And someone else has to pay the monthly leases in those developments. So development and economics are inextricably connected. But economics, beyond the superficial level, are too complicated for me. So I am going to try and reform and stick to topics on this thread that focus primarily on development, with possibly a point or two related to the economics behind a development.

In keeping with my attempt to redeem myself, I wonder what the economics are behind several proposed developments. Please check my thinking here.

For example, I think I understand the need for Class A high-rise office towers in the CBD. Occupancy rates are still pretty high. Mixed-use towers within or close to the new CCC center make even more sense because of the possibility of retail on the first floor, even residential on the top floors. The same is probably true for primarily residential mid-rises with retail on the first floor.

What I don't understand are the economics underpinning the Proscenium project in Sandy. I get the possibility of the arts connection, anchored by the Broadway theatre, which could support first floor retail and food services. I think, if I stretch real hard, I can envision a need for some Class A office space, but I doubt, even in a 10- to 20-year project life cyle, the demand for Class A space would fill even one 30-story tower. Three? I don't think so.

Okay, so some of the high-rise space will be residential. I can accept that. But what I don't understand is who will be willing to shell out top-dollar for that location. I can understand a habitual criminal may want to live there because of the proximity to the 3rd District Court. But the origins of other potential tenants escape me, beyond the attorneys who regularly defend the habitual criminals. Help me out here...please.

[RFPCME]

Originally Posted by T-Mac

Three more TownePlace Suites hotels planned for Utah

By Barbara Rattle
The Enterprise

Marriott International plans to increase the presence of its TownePlace Suites extended stay brand in Utah by opening new hotels in Salt Lake City, Orem and Vernal.

Launched in 1997, there are currently two TownePlace Suites in Utah -- Layton and St. George.

Ground should be broken shortly on the northeast corner of 1200 West and 800 North in Orem for a 99-room TownePlace Suites. According to Jeff Flaherty, director of public relations for extended stay brands, the Orem facility, slated to open in December 2009, will be owned by Pennbridge Group LLC, an arm of Pennbridge Capital Management Co., Lehi; and managed by Zions Hospitality Management Services LLC, Provo.

A Salt Lake City hotel, near the airport, is slated to open in September 2009, will have 93 rooms and be owned and operated by Intermountain Management LLC of Monroe, La. It will be Intermountain's first hotel in Utah.

The Vernal TownePlace Suites, Flaherty said, will contain 85 rooms, is slated to open in May 2010 and will be owned by the Bingham family and operated by Zions Hospitality.

TownePlace Suites caters to moderate-tier, extended-stay guests. Each room contains a full kitchen and office facility. There are more than 148 porperties nationwide, with rates ranging from $76 to $96 per night, based on length of stay and other factors.

Amenities include 24/7 access to food and beverages, complimentary coffee served throughout the day, a center with free high-speed Internet access and printing, on-site faxing and copying, 24-hour staffing, housekeeping services based on length of stay, free local phone calls, an exercise room, outdoor swimming pool and grill at most locations and guest laundry. Pets are welcome for an additional fee.

T-Mac: I wish that I would have been in on the Vernal property. That one is an absolute no-brainer. Ever try to get a hotel room in Vernal? Any time during the year? Like trying book one in New Orleans during Mardi Gras or SLC during Conference weekend. Ain't happening. I tried around May 1 for the 1st weekend in June because I wanted to check out the White River Oil Shale mine, near Bonanza, while I was in Utah. Not a chance. I gave up and decided to spend the whole time in SLC...which greatly relieved my family.

[delts145]

I came across this yesterday and thought it would be interesting for you guys purely on a tower development basis downtown. As you guys know, major energy development is usually accompanied by towers. Devon Energy, a gas and oil development company has just announced the pending construction of what will be a new tallest for Oklahoma City.

These days, cities such as Calgary, with much smaller metro populations have enjoyed tremendous skyline development, in part because of an energy boom. I think that because Huntsman, and our congressional delegation is all so pro-active on this front, vs. surrounding neighbors such as Colorado, there's a good possibility that downtown Salt Lake City will reap a good deal of the benefit of this pending energy boom. If any of you feel that Salt Lake City will reap the benefit of more towers or not, then share that opinion. Please no pro or anti oil per se, just whether you think we'll get the towers, as a result of the pending boom.

Originally Posted by Architect2010

GUYS!!!

Renderings will be released today... It is known not to be 'traditional'. Good thing, I think we have enough of that.

...I'll post renderings of our new scraper as soon as they surface! They are having the meeting right now downtown. I am so excited. :]

Originally Posted by jbrown84

Devon Energy (a company that most in OKC had no awareness of 7-8 years ago) has 1700 employees currently spread over downtown in 5 different buildings. This will consolidate them and allow for growth up to 3000 employees, which they expect to have by 2012 or soon after. They will be the sole tenant.

It includes a 10 story garage, meeting space, a six-story glass rotunda connecting it all, first-floor retail, and a park outside.

The rotunda is designed to fall right on the "Harvey Axis", a line that is being used as a focal point for redevelopment of a massive blighted area south of downtown. It will connect the OKC National Memorial to the Devon HQ, the Myriad Botanical Gardens, a new iconic central park, and the Oklahoma River on the south end.

Originally Posted by jbrown84

54 floors

925 feet

1.9 million sf

More renderings. I'll also point out that at 925', this will be taller than Dallas' tallest, Bank of America Plaza.

[delts145]

A few Calgary Oil/Gas towers
Recent energy build-up has dropped the downtown vacancy rate to 0.5%

Husky Oil - 449 ft.

BNU

Home Oil - 450 ft.

Chuck Szmurlo

Petro Canada - 705 ft.


Cantera Tower - Major Tenant, Devon Energy - 581 ft.

Kevin Cappis

TransCanada - 581 ft.

Surrealplaces

Bankers Hall Twin Towers- Major Tenant, Canadian Natural Resources - 646 ft.

GNU

TD Canada Trust Tower - Home to Alberta Energyn Corp.,531 ft.

TD Canada Trust

Nexen Building - Canadian Energy Company, 499 ft.

GNU

Fifth-Ave-Place, East Tower reflecting twin West Tower - Imperial Oil, 436 ft.

Szmurlo

Eight Avenue Place - Under Construction - 689 ft.

.

[wrendog]

OKC skyline is great for it's size. Jealous.

[SLC Projects]

I don't want to see Renderings from other cities. It just makes me Jealous.

[cololi]

Originally Posted by delts145

These days, cities such as Calgary, with much smaller metro populations have enjoyed tremendous skyline development, in part because of an energy boom. I think that because Huntsman, and our congressional delegation is all so pro-active on this front, vs. surrounding neighbors such as Colorado, there's a good possibility that downtown Salt Lake City will reap a good deal of the benefit of this pending energy boom. If any of you feel that Salt Lake City will reap the benefit of more towers or not, then share that opinion. Please no pro or anti oil per se, just whether you think we'll get the towers, as a result of the pending boom.

I just don't see the downtown metro captilizing on this that much unless the following happens:
1. one of the companies realizes such a huge profit of of their Utah facilities that they decide to relocate their corporate headquarters here.
2. SLC develops a much stronger economic development program. This is key because so far Huntsman and legislature are not very friendly to SLC. Huntsman has done very littel economic recruitment into the SLC metro area. In fact, I see him getting much more support from the legislature by locating such towers to fill a spot like the Gearhy or Sandy project. The legislature makes it incredibly difficult for any projects to be built in downtown SLC and justifies by saying other communities need economic development too, whch is right, but they seem to negate the positive impact on the state by having a strong capitol city.
3. SLC develops a different policy on what they want downtown to become. The current policy and regulations do nothing to make it any easier to get desirable projects built than it does to get undesirable projects. This is the one thing that I see changing in a relatively short time (less than 3 years)


I could more easily see towers that relate to the existing building heights or slightly higher, but I do not think that SLC will ever reach the skyline of even Denver. This is where I probably am in sharp contrast with most people on here, but I don't see tall buildings (anything above about 500 feet) as being a positive addition to SLC.

[NYC Rick]

Originally Posted by wrendog

OKC skyline is great for it's size. Jealous.

That once again those skylines are there because they have the energy business and have had it for a long time.

Oklahoma City as a metro area is smaller than Salt Lake City and as far as a Mega area goes Ogden to Provo via SLC is much larger.

However, they have the energy business because of historic oil history and central location.

Nothing is really going to happen (relative to Calgary and Oklahoma City) in Salt Lake City until there is a tangible reason for it. IE there really is a wealth of energy reserves in Utah but no one is doing anything iabout it beyond talk.

It is talked about and talked about but there are so many realistic possibilities of nothing being done. There really is no comparison between Calgary and Oklahoma City.

CSA wise Salt Lake City is MUCH bigger than Calgary and considerably larger than Oklahoma City. However both Calgary and Oklahoma City have and have had a strong infra-structure in place for decades.

I would love to see SLC become involved in this kind of economic progress but until many things happen this is all Pie in the sky.

Hell...it will take years just to get people to consider oil bearing shale as possible. Then it will take decades through the courts to even be able to start exploration and recovery.

As of this point we do not even have the kind of machinery even in a design stage to make the shale oil a viable and profitable asset.

Calgary and Oklahoma City are working from reality...Right now Salt Lake City is working from hope.

Then again maybe people here have heard things are in motion for something to happen. I would love to hear this.

If there is going to be something happening, I think that a $hit load of permissions are going to have to magically appear.

[Comrade]

Salt Lake City is maybe 30 years behind the developmental foundation that Oklahoma City and Calgary has with oil. That isn't going to change overnight, so don't expect anything in ten years. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there is anything in terms of this type of development in 20.

Of course, Oklahoma City also hit a huge wall by the mid-80s and since hasn't seen any real skyscraper development (well up until this new proposal). The same could be said for many cities that grew up around oil, especially throughout Texas and even OKC's state rival, Tulsa.

Not saying that would happen to Salt Lake, but remember that it's up and down and I don't expect an oil boom comparable to what we saw in the 70s and 80s.

[SLC Projects]

Where do you guys see Salt Lake in say 20 years from now? (2028) I once heard that in 20 years Salt Lake City would be the size of San Diego in the present day. ( That was back in around 2002. ) Not really sure if I believe that or not. But do you guys think we will ever see SLC break the 40-story mark or 50 within our lifetimes. How much bigger would our skyline by in 20 years? Will the Jazz ever win a championship? Sorry I had to throw that one in there.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Where do you guys see Salt Lake in say 20 years from now? (2028) I once heard that in 20 years Salt Lake City would be the size of San Diego in the present day. ( That was back in around 2002. ) Not really sure if I believe that or not. But do you guys think we will ever see SLC break the 40-story mark or 50 within our lifetimes. How much bigger would our skyline by in 20 years? Will the Jazz ever win a championship? Sorry I had to throw that one in there.

Well with current trends its been one skyscraper every ten years I would say the cowboy partner towers and thats about it if we stay that course. Right now however, I feel it could speed up and with all the parking lots downtown I would say the general size will stay the same but with alot more three hundred foot buildings.
I think it also depends on how succesfull city creek is. The Gateway is doing so good its trying to expand its boarders, however it was built to generaly keip people in a four block area so expanding for them will porbably be very tough but they will still do it. I see city creek sort of heading in the same dirrection. The more successfull these two areas are the more likely they will grow.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Where do you guys see Salt Lake in say 20 years from now? (2028) I once heard that in 20 years Salt Lake City would be the size of San Diego in the present day. ( That was back in around 2002. ) Not really sure if I believe that or not. But do you guys think we will ever see SLC break the 40-story mark or 50 within our lifetimes. How much bigger would our skyline by in 20 years? Will the Jazz ever win a championship? Sorry I had to throw that one in there.

Wow sorry for my spelling

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

Well with current trends its been one skyscraper every ten years I would say the cowboy partner towers and thats about it if we stay that course. Right now however, I feel it could speed up and with all the parking lots downtown I would say the general size will stay the same but with alot more three hundred foot buildings.
I think it also depends on how succesfull city creek is. The Gateway is doing so good its trying to expand its boarders, however it was built to generaly keip people in a four block area so expanding for them will porbably be very tough but they will still do it. I see city creek sort of heading in the same dirrection. The more successfull these two areas are the more likely they will grow.

The trend has been rather consistent and it's a bit more than 1 tower every 10 years.

From the 1940s until the early 1960s, there was not much growth in downtown Salt Lake. Then in the late 60s, you saw the construction of the University Club Building and the Zions Bank Tower. In the 70s, only two towers were constructed and only 3 were constructed in the 1980s, the same number as we saw in the 1990s. That seems to be the trend, 2-3 towers a decade for Salt Lake. And, if you look at the proposals today, we will see only 3 towers either get built this decade or get underway this decade (Grand America in 2001, HP Tower and CC Residential tower this year).

So if we base future development on past trends, we should see 3 towers developed next decade and about 3 more developed in the decade after that. Obviously 2 or 3 more towers could be added to that, but even then we're still looking at about only 9 new towers in the next 20 years.

[cololi]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Where do you guys see Salt Lake in say 20 years from now? (2028) I once heard that in 20 years Salt Lake City would be the size of San Diego in the present day. ( That was back in around 2002. ) Not really sure if I believe that or not. But do you guys think we will ever see SLC break the 40-story mark or 50 within our lifetimes. How much bigger would our skyline by in 20 years? Will the Jazz ever win a championship? Sorry I had to throw that one in there.

I see much smaller scale development occurring. The parking lots seem to have survived the supposed economic boom we have experienced in the last few years, something that will likely be slowing down considerably. I see more 10 story or less type of development occurring on the west and south downtown areas prior to anything major coming on board in the CBD or even in the periphery. This is mainly due to the cost of steel. As far as downtown residential, I think you will see more Metro Condo type of development, particulary if the City will start allowing 5 or 6 floors of wood frame construction. If you take the LDS church investment out of downtown, we really haven't seen a huge explosion of devlopment. I think there is probably more money being invested in the CBD periphery than in the CBD, and that won't change.

And no, with Miller owning the team, not going to happen. The managment and coaching staff is not gutsy enough to endure 5 years of losing in exchange for 3 years of glory (see LA Lakers, Celtics, Heat, Bulls, Rockets, Pistons,etc.) The spurs are the exception, but they would have followed this path as well if they didn't have the luxury of Robinson getting hurt and ending up with the first pick to get Duncan.

[DMTower]

I think once the downtown area reaches a critical mass we will see an increase in the amount of towers built. With the rapid expansion of mass transit and all the new residential developments there will be a new focus on downtown that hasn't been there for decades. Salt Lake's identity has been based on the entire valley ever since the flight to the suburbs began, but I think once there are enough people living downtown again we will see a renewed focus from the people living there to build new infrastructure.

[NYC Rick]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Where do you guys see Salt Lake in say 20 years from now? (2028) I once heard that in 20 years Salt Lake City would be the size of San Diego in the present day. ( That was back in around 2002. ) Not really sure if I believe that or not. But do you guys think we will ever see SLC break the 40-story mark or 50 within our lifetimes. How much bigger would our skyline by in 20 years? Will the Jazz ever win a championship? Sorry I had to throw that one in there.

In truth, you have to have the realistic need. This of course entails the ability to fill those offices but more importantly you have to have the resources and the ability to attract the perfect kind of business.

I am sure that high rise construction will come but SLC is not NYC or Boston Or San Francisco and on. It has so much open space and no one has ever specifically designed or defined a growth region for the downtown.

Look bassically it is 2 parallel streets and 5 horizontal streets. That in itself is pretty boring. I personally think it is amazing that there is finally interest in the concept of downtown. It will come.

However right now, If you look at a 1925 picture of downtown SLC, it really is not that much different. The difference is that we lost some of the cool old buildings that make a fluid downtown more lively.

[cololi]

Originally Posted by DMTower

I think once the downtown area reaches a critical mass we will see an increase in the amount of towers built. With the rapid expansion of mass transit and all the new residential developments there will be a new focus on downtown that hasn't been there for decades. Salt Lake's identity has been based on the entire valley ever since the flight to the suburbs began, but I think once there are enough people living downtown again we will see a renewed focus from the people living there to build new infrastructure.

While mas transit expansion is great, there had to be the money for it. I don't see the state giving SLC any money for anything other than the airport line. SLC cannot afford, without a local bond, to build these facilities. While they may be planned, they are at least 30 years from being constructed unless some other funding source comes about. Unfortunately, downtown population growth will be slow due to the cost of land, the current lending situation, and the lack of suburbanites moving into urban cores. I really think that we will see a bit of a boom every 5-7 years, but those project that haven't started construction yet, are very unlikely to happen now which delays the progression to a critical mass. We also have to define what the critical mass is. We have a huge downtown in terms of land area and the City council continues to insist downtown includes the area between I-15, 700 East and N Temple to 900 South. Way too much land to see a critical concentration of activity.

[Strange Meat]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Where do you guys see Salt Lake in say 20 years from now? (2028) I once heard that in 20 years Salt Lake City would be the size of San Diego in the present day. ( That was back in around 2002. ) Not really sure if I believe that or not. But do you guys think we will ever see SLC break the 40-story mark or 50 within our lifetimes. How much bigger would our skyline by in 20 years? Will the Jazz ever win a championship? Sorry I had to throw that one in there.

I wonder if the growth of Denver and SLC will help or hinder one or the other...