Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[urbanboy]

I found the Pantages photos, they are on page 118.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=115696&page=118

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

I do agree, However apartments do tend to get rundown over time. At least Condos stay nice since people care more about them since they own them.

True, the anecdote to that, in my eyes, is to build apartments out of more durable material NOT STUCO:Whip:

[RFPCME]

Urbanboy: Great letter! Send it. Also, I think NY Rick was referring to your quip about Jill Masters truly running Sundance, not Redford, when he said (and I'm paraphrasing) "Oh, ya, that will go over big."

The letter is truly quite good, especially the references to the Pantages theatre in Minneapolis. Nice work. Thanks for taking the time to act on your good ideas.

[urbanboy]

Thank you RFPCME. I sent the letter via email to Jill Miller and CCd Ralph Becker, William Becker, and Robert "Bob" Farrington (Downtown Alliance). Perhaps it will start a conversation, or perhaps not, at least I tried.

[RFPCME]

Below is a link to a great article from the front page of today's NY Times National edition. I already posted a summary of the article over on the Western Energy thread. The reason I am mentioning here is for another reason.

Big Oil has largely ignored exploration in the Mtn. West for a long time. That will change.

Exploration opportunities around the world for Big Oil are getting smaller and smaller, not because they aren't here, but because national oil companies (e.g., the Russian and Iranian state-run oil companies) are forcing Big Oil out.

It is now no surprise to me that the VERY LARGE new fields in Sevier and Sanpete counties are being developed by independents, some very small. Big Oil bet on foreign sources and invested in stock buy-backs instead of exploration.

It will take a couple of years for Big Oil to reposition itself in the Mtn. West, but it will. The development will be in Utah, not Colorado nor Wyoming, so the impact on Salt Lake will be significant (which is probably an understatement). Hold on!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/business/19oil.html?ref=todayspaper

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by RFPCME

Below is a link to a great article from the front page of today's NY Times National edition. I already posted a summary of the article over on the Western Energy thread. The reason I am mentioning here is for another reason.

Big Oil has largely ignored exploration in the Mtn. West for a long time. That will change.

Exploration opportunities around the world for Big Oil are getting smaller and smaller, not because they aren't here, but because national oil companies (e.g., the Russian and Iranian state-run oil companies) are forcing Big Oil out.

It is now no surprise to me that the VERY LARGE new fields in Sevier and Sanpete counties are being developed by independents, some very small. Big Oil bet on foreign sources and invested in stock buy-backs instead of exploration.

It will take a couple of years for Big Oil to reposition itself in the Mtn. West, but it will. The development will be in Utah, not Colorado nor Wyoming, so the impact on Salt Lake will be significant (which is probably an understatement). Hold on!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/business/19oil.html?ref=todayspaper

Bitter sweet. Good development, shady companies, do you guys think this is a positive or anegative.

[delts145]

For all of their imperfections I would a million times over prefer working with the likes of the Sinclairs, etc. or even the Exxons. The thought of our energy needs and basic economy being held hostage by the likes of the legal, murderous, governments/mafias of Venezuala, Iran, or Russia, is cause for far graver concern. As we work our way as quickly as possible toward more independance from oil for many of our energy needs, we must grab those bridge domestic resources closest to our availability.

We are fortunate that Salt Lake City will be at the crossroads of the coming energy development phenomenon.

[RFPCME]

Originally Posted by delts145

For all of their imperfections I would a million times over prefer working with the likes of the Sinclairs, etc. or even the Exxons. The thought of our energy needs and basic economy being held hostage by the likes of the legal, murderous, governments/mafias of Venezuala, Iran, or Russia, is cause for far graver concern. As we work our way as quickly as possible toward more independance from oil for many of our energy needs, we must grab those bridge domestic resources closest to our availability.

We are fortunate that Salt Lake City will be at the crossroads of the coming energy development phenomenon.

Ah Men!!!!!!!

[murdoc9]

Originally Posted by delts145

For all of their imperfections I would a million times over prefer working with the likes of the Sinclairs, etc. or even the Exxons. The thought of our energy needs and basic economy being held hostage by the likes of the legal, murderous, governments/mafias of Venezuala, Iran, or Russia, is cause for far graver concern. As we work our way as quickly as possible toward more independance from oil for many of our energy needs, we must grab those bridge domestic resources closest to our availability.

We are fortunate that Salt Lake City will be at the crossroads of the coming energy development phenomenon.

I agree completely with you about the state run companies, I do disagree with you about the need to have bridge domestic resources, however. People don't move on a large enough scale unless it is their interest. I'd like to be idealistic here, but if we keep pumping oil, renewable energies will always be the future, never the present. We all listened to Al Gore and agreed on global warming (for the most part), but it wasn't until it was in our interest to change the type of cars we drove and mileage driven - notably it wasn't until prices went up.

Drilling for oil will eventually increase supply, which will eventually lower prices from what they would have been, therefore decreasing the motivation for change to alternative energies. Additionally, increased oil production means increased dependence on oil production. If production goes as projected then that is money and jobs going to the state economy that it is sure as hell going to get used to. Weaning off that habit will not be quick or easy and probably could never happen with a popular mandate. Meaning the bridge will be 50 years, not the 5 or 10 I suspect many of you are assuming.

[urbane]

Originally Posted by delts145

For all of their imperfections I would a million times over prefer working with the likes of the Sinclairs, etc. or even the Exxons. The thought of our energy needs and basic economy being held hostage by the likes of the legal, murderous, governments/mafias of Venezuala, Iran, or Russia, is cause for far graver concern. As we work our way as quickly as possible toward more independance from oil for many of our energy needs, we must grab those bridge domestic resources closest to our availability.

We are fortunate that Salt Lake City will be at the crossroads of the coming energy development phenomenon.

Oil shale will be happening very soon. There is a company developing a 100% water free system of extraction. They also have leases on public land and will begin implementing their extraction method within a few weeks. They are called Redleaf and they seem to have it figured out.

http://www.utahenergysummit.com/Presenta...5DApril%20Energy,%20Little%20America.pdf

[skierforlife17]

Originally Posted by urbane

Oil shale will be happening very soon. There is a company developing a 100% water free system of extraction. They also have leases on public land and will begin implementing their extraction method within a few weeks. They are called Redleaf and they seem to have it figured out.

http://www.utahenergysummit.com/Presenta...5DApril%20Energy,%20Little%20America.pdf

Where did you get the time frame of a few weeks?? I curious because I am excited about this possibility!

[delts145]

Former Salt Lake Library's future as 'Leonardo' uncertain

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700252176,00.html

Concerns about The Leonardo as a viable use of the former Salt Lake City library has city leaders considering other options for the building.

Mayor Ralph Becker has instructed city staff to immediately begin exploring other possibilities for the building at 209 E. 500 South. The proposed arts, culture and science center is still an option — just not the only one.

.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by murdoc9

Drilling for oil will eventually increase supply, which will eventually lower prices from what they would have been, therefore decreasing the motivation for change to alternative energies. Additionally, increased oil production means increased dependence on oil production. If production goes as projected then that is money and jobs going to the state economy that it is sure as hell going to get used to. Weaning off that habit will not be quick or easy and probably could never happen with a popular mandate. Meaning the bridge will be 50 years, not the 5 or 10 I suspect many of you are assuming.

Certainly prices will lower, but how much. I think the days of cheap gas are definately over. Even if prices are lowered to 3.00 per gallon, I think the public is more than fed up with the traditional car, and will definately make adjustments on their next purchase. Whether it's a hybrid SUV or a much smaller car, the mileage rates will go up and the carbon output will decline.

My big question is not whether oil will diminish it's hold on the auto or utilities, but what of the myriad of products which are petro based? There is no limit to the amount of products in our modern society, which are based around petroleum for their makeup. Not having petroleum to manufacture these products, or having to depend on the dictatorship's dejour, would have a huge and devastating effect on the American economy.

Plain and simple, I'm not worried about the accelerated production of a better car. But, I am very concerned about the endless list of manufactured products being forced to use foreign oil. It is going to take time to bridge the chemical makeup of plastics etc. We are making some progress, but not at the same rate as with our transportation.

[cololi]

Originally Posted by delts145

For all of their imperfections I would a million times over prefer working with the likes of the Sinclairs, etc. or even the Exxons. The thought of our energy needs and basic economy being held hostage by the likes of the legal, murderous, governments/mafias of Venezuala, Iran, or Russia, is cause for far graver concern. As we work our way as quickly as possible toward more independance from oil for many of our energy needs, we must grab those bridge domestic resources closest to our availability.

We are fortunate that Salt Lake City will be at the crossroads of the coming energy development phenomenon.

Here are the top ten importers of oil into the US:

Canada 18%
Mexico 15%
Saudi Arabia 12%
Nigeria 12%
Venezuela 10%
Angola 6%
Iraq 5%
Algeria 3%
Colombia 3%
Ecuador 3%
UK 2%
Norway 1%
Kuwait 2%
Equatorial Guinea 1%


Exactly one of the countries you listed is a serious importer of oil. I think I read somewhere that we produce about 40% of the oil that we consume. Based on the above figures, we get 3/4 of our oil from north america. We certainly can come up with alternative sources to account for 25% of our energy needs without developing untapped oil sources.

In the sake of national security, we need to preserve and reserve as much oil as we can until we are 100% energy independent for the sole purpose of running our military. Could you image where we would be if our military faced an oil crisis? I maintain that our governments real interest in the middle east is to completely deplete their oil supply by supporting greater use of it in India and China while we sit on our reserves and untapped resources. The lack of a refinery being built in the last 30 years is not due to environmental regulations, it is because it is not in the best interest of our country to do so. If the middle east had no oil, what would they be?

[urbanboy]

I think this discussion would fit best in the western energy thread.

[murdoc9]

As far as the threat to our security, that's exactly why we have the strategic petroleum reserve. As far as biding our time waiting for everyone else to run out of oil - I think that might actually be a smart strategy. However, the reason domestic drilling is on the rise is because of the price of oil and due to reasons already pointed out - nationalization of oil fields and production declines of the larger fields.

[delts145]

Then let's say ,"Middle East" for Iran, and all unstable and volatile countries and regions of the world." At that point what would the percentage be? Even if the oil were not to coming from Iran directly to the U.S., it's terrorist supporting regime could easily and effectively shut down the oil pipeline causing a global economic meltdown. The same is very true with Russia.

I guess I just assumed that most will understand that if Russia chooses to effectively curtail it's oil supply to Europe, or Iran to China, etc. that the effect on the United States having to compete for Canadian, African, etc., product is self-explanatory

This doesn't even begin to account for the endless list of products, which effect our every day lives, that are petro-based.

Again, lets move this over to the Western Energy thread, where RFPCME can pretty much politely thump the naysayers in more detail. I just don't have the patience. This was meant more for how the pending boom would effect SLC development, "MY BAD."
.

[cololi]

Originally Posted by delts145

Then let's say ,"Middle East" for Iran, and all unstable and volatile countries and regions of the world." At that point what would the percentage be? Even if the oil were not to coming from Iran directly to the U.S., it's terrorist supporting regime could easily and effectively shut down the oil pipeline causing a global economic meltdown. The same is very true with Russia.

I guess I just assumed that most will understand that if Russia chooses to effectively curtail it's oil supply to Europe, or Iran to China, etc. that the effect on the United States having to compete for Canadian, African, etc., product is self-explanatory

This doesn't even begin to account for the endless list of products, which effect our every day lives, that are petro-based.

Again, lets move this over to the Western Energy thread, where RFPCME can pretty much politely thump the naysayers in more detail. I just don't have the patience. This was meant more for how the pending boom would effect SLC development, "MY BAD."
.

Sure everyone gets the impact on our country, that is why it is essential to work with our nearby neighbors to help us. I think that we can and should do everything we can to be 100% energy independant, but I just don't see it happening anytime soon, meaning in less than 50 years.

To tie it to SLC, yes the city does stand to benefit, but only if we can get some corporate headquarters associated with the pending energy development and if that resource means that the cost of doing business, building, etc is lowered as a result.

Off topic of the thread: I still thing, longterm, that the most effective way to reduce the threat of some of these countries is to suck them dry of their most valuable resource. this isn't a very pleasant concept and is certainly controversial, but I do think it is the unspoken policy of our country and domestic energy development will not ramp up like it should until this a closer to being a reality.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

I think this discussion would fit best in the western energy thread.

I agree. Enough with the Oil talk please. There's already a thread for that.

As for the 'Leonardo' the more I hear about it the more I am starting to feel that this project will never happen.

[urbane]

Originally Posted by skierforlife17

Where did you get the time frame of a few weeks?? I curious because I am excited about this possibility!

I have a connection to an engineering firm that is doing a lot of design work for them.