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  #4181  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 12:48 AM
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Maybe some of our building proposals will be scaled back or canceled...not likely though.

At worst, people are moving to the metro communities, as explained in the article.

The North Industrial area is booming, with many of those jobs being filled by workers in Warman, Martensville, etc...that's my line of thinking.

The new subdivisions in the east (e.g. Evergreen NE, Rosewood SE) will begin selling lot in 2009. Also in the east, Willowgrove is approaching full-build out (2 more years?). The south has Stonebridge currently under development, but that neighborhood is huge and probably won't be fully built out until 2015 at the earliest, assuming current trends continue.

All of the above development should ease lot prices, thereby making homes in the city more affordable, and encouraging more people to live in the city...traffic is another concern that will cause pain for new and existing residents, not sure if that is a reason to move to Warman though.

Last edited by Ruckus; Jul 26, 2008 at 1:00 AM.
     
     
  #4182  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 1:21 AM
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There is no good reason to move to Warman.
     
     
  #4183  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 4:06 PM
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Maybe some of our building proposals will be scaled back or canceled...not likely though.

At worst, people are moving to the metro communities, as explained in the article.

The North Industrial area is booming, with many of those jobs being filled by workers in Warman, Martensville, etc...that's my line of thinking.

The new subdivisions in the east (e.g. Evergreen NE, Rosewood SE) will begin selling lot in 2009. Also in the east, Willowgrove is approaching full-build out (2 more years?). The south has Stonebridge currently under development, but that neighborhood is huge and probably won't be fully built out until 2015 at the earliest, assuming current trends continue.

All of the above development should ease lot prices, thereby making homes in the city more affordable, and encouraging more people to live in the city...traffic is another concern that will cause pain for new and existing residents, not sure if that is a reason to move to Warman though.
Great points SASKFTW, like I said this is just growing pains and eventually once the prices level out and are alleviated from more lots being available it will draw people into the city. As well as these become available more development will be happening around the university and downtown which will also draw more people in.
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  #4184  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 4:26 PM
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Forget the 'burbs: the sprawl-weary build new inner-city homes
By Rod Nickel, TheStarPhoenix.com
Published: Saturday, July 26, 2008
SASKATOON - Frustrated by high prices of new homes in the 'burbs, Habibe Pjanovic and her adult son Mujo Culum took their search to the heart of King George.

On the tired 700 block of Avenue N South they found their dream home - a semi-detached, roomy 1,300-square-foot house. Pjanovic bought it for $235,000 - at least $50,000 cheaper than the price of the same house on a newer west-side street.

"People say it's a bad area. It has a bad reputation," said Culum, whose family immigrated from Bosnia. "But we've had a good reception with neighbours. People are really, really nice."

Across the inner city, new homes are springing up in unlikely places. Where dumpy rentals and drug houses once stood, new starter homes are rising in twos and threes. For the most part, it's a trend driven by changing consumer preferences and simple economics, not a government program.

Milano Homes has built and sold six to eight new semi-detached homes in the core in the last year. The company has bought property to build another 20.

It's preparing to sell three semi-detached homes in Westmount at 23rd Street and Avenue M. The area has decayed, but the raw materials for a renaissance are in place, said real estate agent Ivan Toledo, who is marketing the homes. Across the street is Leif Erickson Park. Elementary and high schools are a short walk away.

"Buyers are having to revisit their tradeoff points. If I can spend 275 grand, that's going to get me next to nothing in Buena Vista, maybe a townhouse on the east side or it's going to get me a full house on the west side," Toledo said. "(The market) has no choice but to favour the cheaper construction and a decision to live in what at worst would be described a transition area."

'Niche market'

Kory Kormak is putting a fresh face on a block of 27th Street in Caswell Hill.

Kormak more frequently builds homes in new suburbs. But when three adjacent lots on 27th Street became available, he decided to build three homes identical to those he's sold in Willowgrove.

"It allows us a niche market," he said. "If people are interested in living close to (SIAST) Kelsey, close to downtown and not have to worry about taking a car and parking, that's the opportunity we've seen."

Kormak's Caswell homes are equipped with basement suites with separate entrances and laundries, allowing the buyers to take in renters.

The city is on pace to see about 1,000 single-family homes built in 2008, said Randy Grauer, manager of development services. Five per cent of those, or about 50 homes, are expected to be built within Circle Drive - roughly the same number as last year. The city has no stats for how many are being built within the inner city, but builders say it's happening more often now that buyers are willing to consider the core.

The real estate boom is actually holding back a faster reclamation of the core, Grauer said. The cost of new lots hasn't increased as quickly as the cost of buying an existing property in some areas and tearing it down. The price spike has whittled down the economic advantage of infill, he said - fewer levies for developers to pay the city to install pipes and sidewalks.

But Toledo said there are ways to make the economics work. The lots Milano Homes buys are often turned into two homes where there used to be one.

Milano Homes' trio on 23rd Street are listed at $270,000 each. A similar home in Stonebridge goes for about $330,000, Toledo said.

Buying existing properties is still cheaper than new lots if the builder is choosy, Kormak said. Homeowners are well-versed in the real estate boom and are eager to cash in.

There are some savings by tapping into existing infrastructure like roads and sidewalks. But on 27th Street, Kormak had to install new water and sewer pipes anyway to replace old cast-iron pipes.

'Eclectic experience'

A reputation for crime and social problems keeps some home buyers from looking at the core. But others look at the inner city and see its leafy streets lined with character homes, Grauer said.

"When you build in an inner-city neighbourhood, you get a more eclectic experience, no doubt about it. There's a willingness to make investments (there)."

Caswell Hill's turnaround began in the 1990s as buyers attracted by the aesthetics fixed up homes, Toledo said. Similar good things could be ahead for Pleasant Hill and Riversdale, he said.

Core neighbourhoods like Riversdale that are closest to downtown will be quickest to turn around, said Kormack. The reason is in big block numerals at the pumps - $1.33 per litre.

"Everybody has a thorn in their butt about gas," Kormack said. "People are saying, 'I can save by not starting my car and going downtown and parking.' "

Even the inner city's old housing stock is getting a makeover. Many homes have been re-sided and re-shingled outside and gutted inside during the past year as speculators bought and flipped homes in the alphabet streets.

"What's nice about this real estate boom is pretty much every neighbourhood has benefited," Grauer said.

While builders are largely filling in the inner city on their own initiative, there is one government mega-project aimed at changing Pleasant Hill in one ambitious stroke. The three levels of government are paying for a replacement for St. Mary School and new housing on land cleared of 29 rental homes.

'A mixed bag'

The downside to infill is that for every new home rising in the inner city, a more affordable, albeit shabby, one is torn down. Some of those are overdue for demolition, said Laverne Szejvolt, assistant manager of Quint Development Corp., a program that buys old core homes and turns them over to co-operatives of low-income people.

"There's a lot of homes we've been unable to buy because of foundation issues, so my hope would be those are the ones being demolished and new ones being put up," Szejvolt said. "They're literally falling down on themselves.

"If (builders) are demolishing houses just for the sake of demolishing, that's not a good thing because a lot of the character homes should be and can be revitalized at a lower cost. (Infill) is a mixed bag."

Infill is a positive trend, said Mayor Don Atchison.

"What it does is signal to the community that there's confidence there that things are going to be better," he said. "You end up with people stabilizing the community."

Toledo said neighbours are "tickled pink" by new homes going up since their property values rise with them.

"We're actually helping to solve the affordable housing crisis," he said.

Kormak said infill solved a neighbourhood problem in Caswell. He tore down a notorious house to make room for his three new homes.

"I guess there was a lot of bad things that happened in that house," he said. "The neighbours were actually high-fiving when the house went down."

Back in King George, Mujo Culum has already noticed he and his mother aren't the only new house owners.

"Lots of new buildings are poking up and renovations are happening. It's nice to see.

"It's a breath of fresh air."

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© The StarPhoenix (Saskatoon) 2008
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This is really great to see, I feel that with more infill as well people will be drawn to the city. As well as Saskatoon becomes a bit more "advertised" we will see an influx in immigrants who usually prefer to live in the city.
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  #4185  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 5:39 PM
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Ok, so I was fumbling around MLS.ca today. There is 1,548! properties for sale in Saskatoon. Now I saw this coming. Everyone and their dog thought it was a great idea to buy a house and flip it. Now that is by and large much harder to do, but there are still people out there doing it thinking their going to make a fortune.

I'm begining to think this so called boom has been all talk and no action.
     
     
  #4186  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 5:41 PM
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UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGH.

I am all for the so called 'rebirth' of core neighborhoods, i think its great.
The thing i have a problem with is exactly what was staited in the "A mixed bag" section. I agree that if a house is beyond repair it should be torn down, but the houses that are replacing these beautiful old homes (run down, but still beautiful) are not only incredibly ugly, but there has been little to no attempt to at least match the new houses with the old ones! Maybe if plastic siding didn't make me want to puke, i would like these new houses more. but i assume that all of you agree they are ugly. Hopefully as time goes on these neighborhoods such as riversdale and Pleasant Hill will become the homes of middle class business people, with taste. And renovations and new buildings will be top notch, on par with Nutana and Buena Vista. but this is Saskatoon, so those chances are slim.
     
     
  #4187  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2008, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by midnightrambler View Post
Ok, so I was fumbling around MLS.ca today. There is 1,548! properties for sale in Saskatoon. Now I saw this coming. Everyone and their dog thought it was a great idea to buy a house and flip it. Now that is by and large much harder to do, but there are still people out there doing it thinking their going to make a fortune.

I'm begining to think this so called boom has been all talk and no action.
This is proving to be dissappointing, even with all the opportunities our city has it still manages to mess it up. But lets try and stay positive and maybe with some extra office development and some positive residential development in the warehouse district and riverlanding AND broadway the city will prove us all wrong and the supposed boom will extend a few years into the future!
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  #4188  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2008, 4:43 PM
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There are 6 houses for sale within a block of my house, 4 of which are actually on my street that only has about 20 houses on it! 2 went up for sale on Friday right next door to one another, it's crazy!
     
     
  #4189  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2008, 5:16 PM
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There are 6 houses for sale within a block of my house, 4 of which are actually on my street that only has about 20 houses on it! 2 went up for sale on Friday right next door to one another, it's crazy!
Do you think this means people are leaving the city or just relocating within it? I've been looking at various population projections for the city and I feel that the city will continue to grow, perhaps not at the "boom" rate we expected or wanted but I have a feeling after the growing pains were experiencing now the city will secure a solid growth rate.
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  #4190  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2008, 5:28 PM
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Do you think this means people are leaving the city or just relocating within it? I've been looking at various population projections for the city and I feel that the city will continue to grow, perhaps not at the "boom" rate we expected or wanted but I have a feeling after the growing pains were experiencing now the city will secure a solid growth rate.
I suspect they weren't sitting empty. Probably owned by speculators who rented them out. If they are sold, either the renters will stay or have to find new accomodation in the city.

On a similar note, has anyone wondered about the accuracy of predictions such as the one indicating decreased population. Does anyone know what their sampling or measurement procedure is. It seems to me that this sort of thing is very hard to measure even with a full census and I wonder how accurate estimates with no full census could be. Just a thought. Anyway, I don't think quarterly reports are any reason to panic. Just look at the federal budget.

On the bright side, if all the folks who want to live the Warman/Martensville or small town lifestyle leave, we won't have them standing in the way of more urban initiatives such as transit, density, mixed use etc. which they likely don't support. Think of it as urban cleansing
     
     
  #4191  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2008, 7:41 PM
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I suspect they weren't sitting empty. Probably owned by speculators who rented them out. If they are sold, either the renters will stay or have to find new accomodation in the city.

On a similar note, has anyone wondered about the accuracy of predictions such as the one indicating decreased population. Does anyone know what their sampling or measurement procedure is. It seems to me that this sort of thing is very hard to measure even with a full census and I wonder how accurate estimates with no full census could be. Just a thought. Anyway, I don't think quarterly reports are any reason to panic. Just look at the federal budget.

On the bright side, if all the folks who want to live the Warman/Martensville or small town lifestyle leave, we won't have them standing in the way of more urban initiatives such as transit, density, mixed use etc. which they likely don't support. Think of it as urban cleansing
URBAN CLEANSING! That has to be the best term for that. I'd like to see those people go and enjoy their suburban lives and allow people who really appreciate a well thought urban setting to move in. Maybe with that some pressure from the citizens to increase density and create more mixed use living spaces will occur! But who can really speculate Saskatoon is really just starting to come together as a "major-little" city it can really go either way but hopefully with the waves of people from the phillipines, vietnam and the ukraine they will call Saskatoon home!
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  #4192  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2008, 7:51 PM
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in regards to the supposed decline in population, I'd take it with a grain of salt, those are estimates and one was done mid-school year, the other during the summer and all of G5's estimates are higher than the city of saskatoon's, it's an inexact science, made much worse by the fact that Saskatoon is a university town....and really with more real estate activity, I would imagine it would be fairly difficult to estimate how many people are living in a house at any given time.
     
     
  #4193  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2008, 2:18 AM
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There are 6 houses for sale within a block of my house, 4 of which are actually on my street that only has about 20 houses on it! 2 went up for sale on Friday right next door to one another, it's crazy!
Where do you live, Wyku?
     
     
  #4194  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2008, 6:33 PM
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I'm guessing a couple of them were rental properties and other people are probably trying to cash in and move up to a new construction, or a bigger house since what they paid for the houses is nowhere near what the asking prices are now; depending on when they bought them anywhere from a 100%to 300% increase in "value".

I'm over in Westview .
     
     
  #4195  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2008, 9:03 AM
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2nd Avenue confirmations and new developments...

Folks Finer Furs building sold
Cassandra Kyle, The StarPhoenix
Published: Wednesday, July 30, 2008

A property development group comprised of eight "significant businesspeople" has purchased a downtown landmark, one of its members said Tuesday.

Edgar Properties Ltd., which has already purchased the Yanke Trucking lot on Lorne Avenue, will take possession of the Folks Finer Furs building on Second Avenue and 20th Street next spring, said Vaughn Wyant, a member of the group. Edgar purchased the site for $1.7 million, a deal that will close in early 2009.

"It's just a great corner. It's a high-traffic corner and, over a period of the next number of years, that entire area is going to be redeveloped. It's going to be a real hub, and we think that corner may be the best corner in downtown Saskatoon," said Wyant, owner of the 12-dealership strong Vaughn Wyant Automotive Group.


The Folks Finer Furs building on Second Avenue and 20th Street has been bought by Edgar Properties Ltd. Greg Pender, The StarPhoenix

The new owners have yet to finalize plans for their new property.

"We haven't decided whether we are going to tear down the existing building and build a brand new building or develop it using the site that's there right now," he said, adding the current owners plan on operating their business as usual until keys are exchanged next year.

Investment-minded businesspeople from Edmonton, Calgary and Saskatoon make up the Edgar group, which is focused on developing properties for long-term revenue. Now with two properties under its collective belt, Wyant says the group is looking at other sites in Saskatoon to expand its holdings.

Wyant said Edgar plans "to take these promising sites and redevelop them into strong retail/commercial centres. . . . We're not into flipping properties, we're into buying properties and developing them for long-term revenue."

While Wyant couldn't reveal the other sites the developers are looking into, he did say Edgar partners have a lot of faith in the city's real estate market. Purchasing properties now is a smart investment, he said.

"Over the course of the next few years I think Saskatoon and Saskatchewan will turn out to be considered to be a relatively safe investment in real estate compared to a lot of other places," he said.

Folks Finer Furs, a third-generation city business, has been a part of Saskatoon's downtown retail environment since 1947 when it was first opened in the Empire Hotel (now the Capri building). The business moved to its current location at 297 Second Ave. South in 1959, said Merv Folk, who owns the building and business with his siblings.

Folk said it's the right time to sell the property. The family may continue to operate their store at a different location in the city when Edgar takes possession in the spring.

---

The empty space left vacant by a winter fire that destroyed Chau's Commodore Restaurant and Gotta Hava Java Cappuccino Bar on Second Avenue has been purchased.

Mid-West Development Corp. purchased the 5,250-square-foot site for more than $100 per square foot, said Todd Butler of ICR Commercial Real Estate.

Ken Achs, president and owner of Mid-West, said the "pricey dirt" is a good long-term investment. He owns the McDonald's located next door to the empty site, expanding the company's holdings at the busy corner.

"It's a pivotal corner in the city, so it probably warrants fairly substantial development," he said of future plans for the lot.

Busy with several other construction projects, Achs says the company will start developing the site within the next two years.

The company has yet to decide how high it will build on the lot or whether it will knock down the adjacent McDonald's. The site will be turned into a parking lot when Mid-West takes possession of the property in October.

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© The StarPhoenix (Saskatoon) 2008

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Great development, demolish the Folks Finer Furs building, put in something bigger, not huge, 5-15 storey would suit that location...really should develop the Impark lot across the street though, tis a shame

I like that the SP noted the Capri is the historic Empire Hotel, just saying
     
     
  #4196  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2008, 4:13 PM
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That's some great news! With the redevelopment of that corner it will really urge redevelopment to happen in other locations downtown. As well with the lighthouse development and the Capri moving it will really open that area up for some major retail. I agree a building around possibly 10-15 would be nice right there. As well the old Chau's location sounds like it could turn out to be quite promising. Maybe an office building to match the one just down the block in size or even larger could be constructed since the city is dieing for office space. I don't think this would be a good location for condos to go up it would be a bit awkward and not that well utilized seeing as most of the offices d/t are in that area. It will be exciting to see what happens in the next 2 years!
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  #4197  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2008, 10:30 PM
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demo it, but not 10-15, thats too big for second Ave. For that particular block, 2-5.
     
     
  #4198  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2008, 10:53 PM
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demo it, but not 10-15, thats too big for second Ave. For that particular block, 2-5.

ok ok maybe 5-8, it would be nice to see it either ultra modern or a stone classical building.
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  #4199  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2008, 12:15 AM
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demo it, but not 10-15, thats too big for second Ave. For that particular block, 2-5.
I'm all for a new 15 storey building designed with residential, office, and retail spaces, a mix use proposal.

I would strongly oppose a new 15 storey building being comprised entirely of office space, good way to create a dead zone on 2nd Avenue.

15 is the upper limit, not an ideal, I would prefer a 8-11 mix use proposal, although it really depends on a few design factors.

What 2nd Avenue needs more of is residential and commercial (e.g. dining, bars, lounges, cafe...people places).

The north end of a vibrant 2nd Avenue will be anchored with a redesigned bus mall, 2nd Ave lofts (ground floor commercial; adjoining Bayside occupied by Cameco and the WCB), King George lofts (ground floor commercial; 2nd and 3rd floor office space)...moving towards the centre of a vibrant 2nd Avenue, a fresh new mix use building 5-15 storey at the former Chau's and current Mcdonald's...proceeding south past more lounges, cafes, shops we arrive at the Folks Finer Furs site, another mix use building 5-15 storey (need to distract the eyes away from the GALAXY box )...moving further south, arriving at River Landing and all it's glory

2nd Avenue could become a magnificent urban environment, but businesses need customers to thrive. The simplest and most obvious method of boosting activity on 2nd Avenue and the whole of downtown is to promote residences on all downtown streets, including 2nd Avenue...or provide more cheap parking for the suburban crowd looking for an urban experience.

A very fine balance, but in the long term, fewer parking lots and more residences will fulfill the goal of a beautiful, vibrant, livable, 24 hr downtown.
     
     
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Old Posted Jul 31, 2008, 3:27 PM
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I'm all for a new 15 storey building designed with residential, office, and retail spaces, a mix use proposal.

I would strongly oppose a new 15 storey building being comprised entirely of office space, good way to create a dead zone on 2nd Avenue.

15 is the upper limit, not an ideal, I would prefer a 8-11 mix use proposal, although it really depends on a few design factors.

What 2nd Avenue needs more of is residential and commercial (e.g. dining, bars, lounges, cafe...people places).

The north end of a vibrant 2nd Avenue will be anchored with a redesigned bus mall, 2nd Ave lofts (ground floor commercial; adjoining Bayside occupied by Cameco and the WCB), King George lofts (ground floor commercial; 2nd and 3rd floor office space)...moving towards the centre of a vibrant 2nd Avenue, a fresh new mix use building 5-15 storey at the former Chau's and current Mcdonald's...proceeding south past more lounges, cafes, shops we arrive at the Folks Finer Furs site, another mix use building 5-15 storey (need to distract the eyes away from the GALAXY box )...moving further south, arriving at River Landing and all it's glory

2nd Avenue could become a magnificent urban environment, but businesses need customers to thrive. The simplest and most obvious method of boosting activity on 2nd Avenue and the whole of downtown is to promote residences on all downtown streets, including 2nd Avenue...or provide more cheap parking for the suburban crowd looking for an urban experience.

A very fine balance, but in the long term, fewer parking lots and more residences will fulfill the goal of a beautiful, vibrant, livable, 24 hr downtown.
VERY excellent points and I 100% agree, Saskatoon's 2nd Ave could then be comparable to Calgary's Steven Ave. It would be nice to see alot of the old buildings alont that Ave. to be fully restored and with a few anchors in place it would really just make the area a fantastic urban experience. Speaking of Ave. rejuvination does anyone have anymore info on the 3rd ave revival, I heard a while ago that some of the businesses were going to save up some money to eventually revamp that ave etc to promote more positive business. As well there are 2 old apartment buildings, one on 3rd and one on 2nd, that have so much potential to be more lofts d/t, does anyone have any info if these are changing ownership or anythign like that. The 1 building is across from the 2nd ave lofts and the other one is on 3rd across from the new office building going up by the credit union.
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