CHICAGO | Boom rundown - everything over 12 floors. v5

[Marcu]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

So there are any neighborhoods left that aren't just going to decrease in density as time goes on? I guess we've got Streeterville which is still densifying, and South Loop for a couple more years but not much longer. Nothing else though. All the north lakeshore neighborhoods are basically gearing up for their gradual decline.

Established neighborhoods like Lincoln Park and Lakeview will surely be getting less dense with only a handfull of 12+ projects in the near future, while neighborhoods to the west like Ukrainian Village and Logan Square and to the South like Bronzeville will getting more dense (partially due to surface lot/warehouse conversion to residential and project clearance). The end result will be more places that have the density and feel of the Southport corridor or Lincoln Square (not quite as high as East Lakeview but sufficient for a vibrant urban area), and less places that have the density levels East Lakeview or on the other end Bronzeville.

Also, keep in mind that Edgewater seems to be getting denser and denser, including several projects u/c or proposed near Thorndale, Bryn Mawr, and Granville el stops at 12+ floors. Speaking of which, what's the deal with the blue and yellow building on the Thorndale el that I believe is around 15 floors?

[the urban politician]

^ Just what I was thinking. Wealthier neighorhoods almost inevitably become less dense, while neighborhoods still up & coming will likely become denser (with the exception of already-vibrant ethnic hoods which gentrify into mostly white hoods, but that's a different discussion).

There is so much damn room for growth in Chicago's neighborhoods that it's ridiculous, and yes I'm talking about along transit lines. As long as there are swaths of vacant land on the south and west sides that are well served by trains, I really see no reason to worry in the long run. In fact, I'm much more concerned about lack of development in those areas than I am about not dense enough development in the already built out north lakefront.

[Chicago Shawn]

Lincoln Park 2520 is very near a construction start, likely within one week....
















Settlement Survey marks:

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

From your mouth to the skyscraper gods' ears...

I wish I could agree with you: that the economics of Chicago land values will eventually necessitate and dictate increasing unit density.

But look at San Francisco and Boston. There is precedent of NIMBYs winning the war. Chicago has generally been a more developer-friendly environment, but only by virtue of the corrupt nature of our politics, not out of some ideological love affair with development. As the corrupt old guard who played ball with developers get voted out and replaced with panderhacks like Reilly/Fioretti/et al, why wouldn't we go the way of San Francisco and basically just eliminate any development everywhere except brownfields?

Look at Manhattan. Lots of NIMBYs, everywhere, but development still happens. Not so much on the Upper East and West Sides, because those areas really can't support more density, but in midtown and everywhere further downtown. Obviously, they're doing something right in NY City Hall, even though the NIMBYs have elected plenty of sympathetic politicians.

The Chicago City Council can't be overrun by so-called "panderhacks", because of the vast swaths of the city that don't have strong development pressures to fear. Over time, aldermanic privilege will erode - ironically, because NIMBYs will demand a more enlightened process than the pay-to-play that exists today.

If aldermanic privilege erodes, then decisions about buildings will fall more often onto city planners, who presumably know the benefits of density and transit access, and will revise the Zoning Code accordingly.

[Chicagoguy]

Originally Posted by Chicago Shawn

Lincoln Park 2520 is very near a construction start, likely within one week....

This is exciting...I cant wait for this one to start construction. It is going to be beautiful when its done. Keep us posted on when it starts!

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

I wish I could agree with you: that the economics of Chicago land values will eventually necessitate and dictate increasing unit density.

But look at San Francisco and Boston. There is precedent of NIMBYs winning the war. Chicago has generally been a more developer-friendly environment, but only by virtue of the corrupt nature of our politics, not out of some ideological love affair with development. As the corrupt old guard who played ball with developers get voted out and replaced with panderhacks like Reilly/Fioretti/et al, why wouldn't we go the way of San Francisco and basically just eliminate any development everywhere except brownfields?

In addition to the comment about Manhattan, lets not forget a few very important differences between Chicago and the SF/Boston examples.

Chicago has way more central area employment than these two other places. Plus, if you add up the CTA & Metra, it has a much more robust transit infrastructure serving its downtown (even if ridership levels may not be much higher). Ridership levels aside, Chicago can accommodate a lot of growth along its train lines. How much growth can SF & Boston accommodate?

There will continue to be an increased pressure by people who want to live close to their well-paying downtown jobs, and they'll want to be able to arrive by transit. And as more people live here, they will need more goods & services--more so than in Boston & SF.

The basic opinion I'm trying to express is this: the root of all growth is jobs. Being that the downtown job magnet is so huge, it will continue to drive residential development around it more so than most less centralized cities, and this process will only become more robust as fuel prices rise.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by ualsk

long time reader, first time poster. is the front page list no longer being updated?

i have not gotten around to doing an update on the page 1 list for many months now. i guess you could say that maybe i've lost some zeal for staying totally on top of things with the massive real estate slowdown we're currently experiencing.

if another dedicated chicago fourmer here thinks that they have the interest and energy to take over updating the list for me (i've been doing it since 2002), i would gladly hand it off to someone else. if anyone is interested, send me a PM. the only tools required are the interest, the energy, and a basic understanding of vbulletin coding for embedding links and adding color tags and simple stuff like that. let me know.

[Tom In Chicago]

^You're ready to retire??? I'll take it. . . should keep me busy for a while. . .

[Steely Dan]

^ excellent.

when you're ready with your list, post it to a new thread, and then we'll shut this bad-boy down and send it to the archive.

[Sir Isaac Newton]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

So there are any neighborhoods left that aren't just going to decrease in density as time goes on? I guess we've got Streeterville which is still densifying, and South Loop for a couple more years but not much longer. Nothing else though. All the north lakeshore neighborhoods are basically gearing up for their gradual decline.

The majority of neighborhoods in Chicago have become more dense over the past 5-10 years, and will CONTINUE to become more dense over the next 10 years or so. There has definitely been a trend towards suburbanites moving into the city, boomers buying 2nd homes in the city, young families staying in the city longer (or permanently) as certain neighborhoods in Chicago are becoming more family friendly. Couple that with a downtown that continues to improve and which has become more of a 24-7 location and with gas prices being insanely high and that will probably not get better any time soon, and I think its safe to say that we will see most Chicago neighborhoods get more dense, not less dense, in the near future.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Sir Isaac Newton

The majority of neighborhoods in Chicago have become more dense over the past 5-10 years, and will CONTINUE to become more dense over the next 10 years or so. There has definitely been a trend towards suburbanites moving into the city, boomers buying 2nd homes in the city, young families staying in the city longer (or permanently) as certain neighborhoods in Chicago are becoming more family friendly. Couple that with a downtown that continues to improve and which has become more of a 24-7 location and with gas prices being insanely high and that will probably not get better any time soon, and I think its safe to say that we will see most Chicago neighborhoods get more dense, not less dense, in the near future.

Check the zoning map and historical census data, then get back to me. Household sizes are shrinking, and the only desirable neighborhoods zoned for any density are built out.

Areas that are densifying: Streeterville, Lakeshore East, The Loop
Areas that are densifying but nearing maturity/build out: South Loop (think Bob is gonna approve and/many more highrises?)

The only areas with dense zoning waiting for development are Bronzeville (along the Green Line from 39th down to 51st), and a pocket near East Garfield Park.

Any further discussion on this point, let's take it to the "General Developments" thread.

[GregBear24]

^ I hate to be the d-bag who says this, but I haven't chimed in on here in a while, and I want to respond. I believe that the pandering of aldermen can be somewhat effective in weeding out very weak projects, creating more demand for taller, leaner buildings, and preserving historic structures and giving people in neighborhoods a voice. Yes, the South Loop has slowed down just like every other part of town and the country. However, people are starting to get it- living in the city is actually less stressful than the suburbs in some ways, and has other environmental and financial benefits. Chicago, for what it is, may be the best value in the world as far as what you can get for your money in a world-class city. Yes, I say world-class because that's what we are now; that's what people not from here who have been here think, and it's something we better start getting used to. I'm very optimistic as I see how many big player Chicago financial institutions have weathered the storm in recent quarters, and also optimistic about the real estate market in Chicago. I believe this city is a sleeping giant waiting for its time to shine. I hear less negative things about Chicago than ever- the only thing I and everyone else routinely complain about is the CTA, and it'll get its due makeover eventually.
Regarding your concern on zoning: I believe the market will eventually force certain areas of zoning to change. Bottom line is that developers are an alderman's best friend when it comes to shared interests. Higher desity also means more tax rev per zone, per ward, and for the city as a whole. The traffic in the suburbs is nearly equal to the city, and in the city you can go places without driving, or just take affordable PT. Overall, we have much to be thankful for in this city- especially in recent years; however, we also have much to look forward to in years to come.

[danielm5486]

Hello everyone,
I was up in the Sears Tower on Saturday showing a visitor around the city and took these pictures on the side. enjoy

[harryc]

Soil testing the hard way

[Xeelee]

nice shots

[dagobert]

How can they do soil testing when the rig is on top of the structure?
Wouldn't it be easier if the rig was closer to the ground? Just curious.

Originally Posted by harryc

Soil testing the hard way

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by dagobert

How can they do soil testing when the rig is on top of the structure?
Wouldn't it be easier if the rig was closer to the ground? Just curious.

They drill throught the garage floors. that's the same way they did it at 300 N. LaSalle.

They have to add the long tubing and the best clearance is at the top.

I'm sure you see how tall that rig is.

[Tom In Chicago]

^Yeah. . . they did the same thing on the deck at Doral Plaza. . . went through the /roof/ of the old LaStrada restaurant. . .

[Chicagoguy]

Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago

^Yeah. . . they did the same thing on the deck at Doral Plaza. . . went through the /roof/ of the old LaStrada restaurant. . .

The Old LaStrada? Is it not there anymore? Just curious if something was planned in its place?

[SolarWind]

July 1, 2008