Lister Block | ? | 6 fl | Renovation - Page 42

raisethehammer · #**821** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 1:44 AM**

against my better judgement (to not be wasting my time) I just checked the condo listings in Hamilton West from $175,000-$350,000.
There are 23 condos for sale.
3 of them are CoreLofts.

So if by "many" you mean 3, then point well taken.

fastcarsfreedom · #**822** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 2:18 AM**

Smart business makes decisions based on actual information not "ideas" or "judgements"...

Secondly...as for condos being over-priced--I agree in general--they are overpriced in most, if not all markets.

raisethehammer · #**823** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 2:23 AM**

[QUOTE=fastcarsfreedom;3511544]Smart business makes decisions based on actual information not "ideas" or "judgements"...

I know...that's why I wasted a few minutes of my life to get the 'information' before this thread got way off topic with uninformed comments.

I follow the real estate market closely and am friends with several local agents....they all confirm a great demand for nice condos. CoreLofts was an absolutely successful project from the start. Resale prices have been great.

To me, it helps the condo argument by noting that the prices are similar to decent sized homes in the area.

HAMRetrofit · #**824** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 2:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

Secondly...as for condos being over-priced--I agree in general--they are overpriced in most, if not all markets.

I would disagree with this. Condos are typically built in close proximity to markets with high skilled labor. ie. Toronto's financial and corporate services sectors. They are undervalued because of their location in relation to high quality employment. Most with the financial means desire to be as close as possible to this employment with the highest quality real estate. In turn, this has the effect of substantially boosting area real estate and creating a strong condo market with a high entry price point.

Suburban tract housing is built closer to areas of growing low skilled labor. ie. Power Centers and Warehousing areas like Milton. The location in this case does not hold much value in relation to lower quality employment. Typically this means that more quantifiable space can be purchased for less money.

The value in downtown Hamilton is in its proximity to highly skilled health services which supports a general area consisting of 2.2 million people. This places Hamilton in a highly desirable location in relation to high quality skilled employment. Again Hamilton condos are on a solid base and justify their respected prices. The growth in health services in Hamilton will justify more expansion in this market.

Goldfinger · #**825** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 3:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT Jacobs

Precisely. The asking price is irrelevant. It is no guage to the market. Selling prices and time on the market are the true indicators of the condo market.

So, while I agree that Hamilton has a healthy potential condo market, I would also say right now that it is weak (poor products, generally) and overpriced (judged by the amount of time these products are on the market and in relation to single family homes).

Again, it is instructive to look at the condo markets in other major cities. As has been pointed out before on this forum, small, decent, comparative condos can be had in Toronto for the same price or cheaper than Hamilton's. As such, where would you buy if you weren't smitten by Hamilton's grit and potential?

The determining price of any real estate is based on SOLD listings as previously stated. The condo market in Hamilton for sold listings is priced between $160psf on the lower end to $220psf on the higher end (average). This is as of April '08. Interestingly, Chateau Royale and the Caroline projects were at the top with CR asking up to $300 and $220 psf which is why sales were poor. Core Lofts sold at about $180-$190 psf which is the sweet spot for the Hamilton market. You cant build stellar projects when you have to sell that cheap.

In Toronto and Mississauga, averages are $400-450psf.

Berklon · #**826** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 3:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

against my better judgement (to not be wasting my time) I just checked the condo listings in Hamilton West from $175,000-$350,000.
There are 23 condos for sale.
3 of them are CoreLofts.

So if by "many" you mean 3, then point well taken.

I used the Core Lofts as an example (hence the "ie.") - they're not the only condo units sitting their unsold for a long time. Not to mention they had previous units that sat for quite a while as well (unsure if they were sold or just pulled off the market). You also have the 4 Cityview Terrace units, a couple Chataue Royale and the one on Hunter sitting for a while. They'll continue to remain there for a while.

BTW, while I agree with many of your points on this forum in general - you really need to work on your people skills and your attitude.

HAMRetrofit · #**827** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 3:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon

I used the Core Lofts as an example (hence the "ie.") - they're not the only condo units sitting their unsold for a long time. Not to mention they had previous units that sat for quite a while as well (unsure if they were sold or just pulled off the market). You also have the 4 Cityview Terrace units, a couple Chataue Royale and the one on Hunter sitting for a while. They'll continue to remain there for a while.

BTW, while I agree with many of your points on this forum in general - you really need to work on your people skills and your attitude.

Berklon, I applaud your efforts but checking listings online is not a good indicator of the condo market. There are many complexities involved in units posted. We don't know the state of these units within the building. We don't know if they are near grade or close to the garbage disposal or loading area for example. You need to look at macro or region trends to gauge the market. Look at the general asking prices for example. The agents involved know what they can sell these units for if not they will adjust the prices. I think people are concluding far too much from MLS listings without doing the leg work and research to know what they are talking about.

the dude · #**828** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 4:57 AM**

i'm confused, what kind of an indicator is it that a few condos are for sale in a building? awkwardly put, but couldn't it mean that they've got great re-sale value as well? now, if they hadn't sold in the first place then that's another story but i don't believe that's the case for core lofts. the only one that didn't sell right away was the one on the first floor - it was the sales office.

HAMRetrofit · #**829** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 5:14 AM**

Hey I created a new thread regarding the Hamilton Condo Market. Perhaps this thread can now go back to being a discussion about lister.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=3511684#post3511684

raisethehammer · #**830** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 12:05 PM**

Lol...good idea.
Lister is just too darn depressing though!

raisethehammer · #**831** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 12:10 PM**

sorry...wrong thread

Berklon · #**832** Posted **Apr 26, 2008, 1:35 PM**

Fair enough. My original post said "I'm not so sure"... which meant I don't have a definitive answer. I visit MLS often and the impression I'm given with a bunch of these units (which are decent IMO) is that the market is very slow moving in the downtown area. It's not the best indicator for sure, so it's not gospel.

Will use the other thread from here on to discuss the Condo market - just wanted closure on that part of the discussion in this thread (at least my part of it).

NorthEndRules · #**833** Posted **Apr 27, 2008, 5:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the dude

i'm confused, what kind of an indicator is it that a few condos are for sale in a building? awkwardly put, but couldn't it mean that they've got great re-sale value as well? now, if they hadn't sold in the first place then that's another story but i don't believe that's the case for core lofts. the only one that didn't sell right away was the one on the first floor - it was the sales office.

Actually, the sales office was on the penthouse floor part of which became my condo unit. It had a great view of Main st heading east and of City hall. The problem with the first floor unit was privacy, price and awkward layout.

We sold our unit in 2 months time well above our initial cost. It was the coolest place I've lived in. Also, it was a so convenient living there but alas, we wanted a larger place with a backyard.

coalminecanary · #**834** Posted **Apr 27, 2008, 2:14 PM**

The lister is totally secured from intruders and elements now!

(sarcasm)

the dude · #**835** Posted **Apr 27, 2008, 2:38 PM**

how long are we going to have to look at that gap? lately, my worst nightmares seem to be coming true - the number of demolitions and vacancies are really starting to get to me.

Millstone · #**836** Posted **Apr 28, 2008, 2:47 AM**

The demolition company stapled their sign on the front of the Lister.

Tacky at best.

Also there are a ton of fire trucks screaming down Rebecca and other westbound roads right now. Hope everything's ok.

matt602 · #**837** Posted **Apr 28, 2008, 4:44 AM**

I noticed the sign. That really pisses me off.

the dude · #**838** Posted **Apr 28, 2008, 7:03 AM**

^that's in very poor taste. they're always so proud of their work, aren't they?

coalminecanary · #**839** Posted **Apr 28, 2008, 1:32 PM**

I had an idea but it would have to be a mutual effort...

It would be cool to have a map of the core with all of the less-than-desirable lots mapped out with info such as who the owner is and how long they've had the property. so focussing on all the derelict buildings and the parking lots.

And then another map of all of the buildings that are well maintained and the ones that have businesses in them.

I'm positive we'd see that the total number of owners on map #1 is low (i.e. a lot of the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 properties are owned by just a handful or people) while map #2 would show that lots of "little guys" are the ones keeping the core running.

I'm not sure how (or if) this information collection is possible but I bet with a small group working on it we could get this kind of thing together.

Then I bet we could convince H mag to put out a special downtown update issue that exposes the bad guys and congratulates the good guys :-)

Anyone care to try something like this out?

markbarbera · #**840** Posted **Apr 28, 2008, 3:43 PM**

And the magazine can be distributed through an informational picket in front of LIUNA offices on Hughson...