Central Waterfront District | Waterfront Station - CRAB Park

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

Now imagine if you extended SkyTrain there, the ridership would be phenomenal. I for one would much more likely go to the North Shore more often.

As an occasional visitor, a ride through a dark underground tunnel would be more enjoyable to you than a cruise on a Seabus?

[deasine]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

^ 2021 to Lonsdale???? Any more details? It would definitely happen eventually, but with so many other projects going on (UBC, Evergreen, Surrey extension) I highly doubt that. Such an extension to the North Shore is definitely feasible though, in terms of ridership. The open house boards state that there are 8,100 average weekday arrivals and 7,000 weekday departures for SeaBus for a total of 15,100 boardings.....that's half of Expo SkyTrain Waterfront Station weekday average boardings of 31,000.

Remember it's a City of Vancouver vision, not a TransLink or Provincial Government. I'm not surprised in seeing something like this planned/announced for 2030 and be completed by 2035, especially when Lions Gate will probably be closed for pedestrians and there will be a new crossing between Northshore to Vancouver [possibly the "main street tunnel"?

Lonsdale is considered a regional centre btw.

[officedweller]

Didn't have a chance to go - my main comment would be the plan should allow for at least two more additional rail platforms - i.e. one more Skytrain/subway platform and one more WCE platform, rather than just the extra WCE platform they currently anticipate.
That leads to my other comment about having the concourse oriented north-south.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

As an occasional visitor, a ride through a dark underground tunnel would be more enjoyable to you than a cruise on a Seabus?

You'd sacrifice good transit for a tourist service? The same logic that drove Seattle into planning to build its rapid transit expansion as a monorail to serve tourists, rather than a LRT expansion?


Consider that the SeaBus takes 15-minutes to cross (including the turn around) and a SkyTrain extension would get you across in 2-4 minutes. Also consider that we can extend rapid transit service throughout the North Shore as part of this new underground rail crossing.


The only reason I'm an occasional visitor is because getting there is such a hassle. The SeaBus takes forever, and once you're across the only place you visit is Lonsdale because the bus routes to other sites and shopping areas are completely incompetent.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

You'd sacrifice good transit for a tourist service? The same logic that drove Seattle into planning to build its rapid transit expansion as a monorail to serve tourists, rather than a LRT expansion?

I'm not talking about regular commuters. I'm talking about YOU.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

I'm not talking about regular commuters. I'm talking about YOU.

I'd rather take SkyTrain.

[SFUVancouver]

There is no real reason that a scaled-up Aquabus-like service couldn't continue to provide a scenic link between downtown Vancouver and Lonsdale. Hell, imagine how cool it would be to be able to take a light ferry from downtown to Lonsdale, have lunch, then over to Port Moody and then Evergreen Line-it back to the Metro Core. Anyway, in a cost benefit analysis comparing rail to sail a 90-second train trip will massively trump a 15 minute ferry crossing and yield, on paper, a compelling case to build the thing. Again, I'm not holding my breath but eventually it will happen.

I forgot to add that in my parting comment about the height of the office buildings I actually said something more along the lines of '...the Shangri-La has topped out, the sky hasn't fallen, and we can still see the mountains just fine.' I said that for those sites they should consider 750-1000' foot towers. They can twist and torque all the like around the view cone that splits the site but go high, for once go high. I know some don't think those kinds of heights are appropriate for Vancouver and I agree as a broad policy, but for this site I think we should go for broke. They would be occulded by most of the downtown core and not look absurdly gargantuan from most perspectives in the city, plus there would be nothing but water and port to over shadow.

I have a feeling like this thing is a go and I suspect the post-Olympics timeline will actually serve the project well since they won't be cutting corners to get it built in time.

I'm going to look forward to this one.

[jlousa]

*l* SFUVan the only thing you did was ensure your comment card gets tossed into the same pile as the build more (homeless shelters/SROs) pile.
I would've stuck with 500ft+ otherwise they'll think you're a crazy.

[fever]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Didn't have a chance to go - my main comment would be the plan should allow for at least two more additional rail platforms - i.e. one more Skytrain/subway platform and one more WCE platform, rather than just the extra WCE platform they currently anticipate.
That leads to my other comment about having the concourse oriented north-south.

I walked by today. This was my comment as well.

I find it funny how they put up pictures of Berlin Hauptbahnhof and London St Pancras (and is that the British Museum??) as examples. They could have chosen some examples of good modern stations that have a similar scale to Waterfront. If they're just showing examples of glass roofs, they chose some good ones.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by jlousa

*l* SFUVan the only thing you did was ensure your comment card gets tossed into the same pile as the build more (homeless shelters/SROs) pile.
I would've stuck with 500ft+ otherwise they'll think you're a crazy.

^ Well that is certainly possible, but I did write a great deal more on my comment form than that and the nature of these things are that staff pick and choose the feedback they want. Besides, not all that long ago suggesting the construction of a 650' building like the Shangri-La would have landed your comment form in the same bin.

It is worth noting as well that there was a question that specifically said 'is the proposed height (up to 400') appropriate?' Yes / No, too high / No, not high enough, so my comments were not out of left field. Nor, frankly, do I actually expect that Vancouver is going to get a pair of honest-to-goodness tall office towers any time soon, but I do think there is merit in providing the City with feedback that there is at least some appetitte for taller buildings in the CBD, especially when they're right on top of a major transit hub.

[AKA-007]

^^^^^^^The other advantage about the rail crossing to lonsdale is that it will shave off the walking time between seabus and skytrain. Instead of saving 10 minutes, you will end up saving something like 15 or 20 minutes as well as more frequent crossings.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

You'd sacrifice good transit for a tourist service? The same logic that drove Seattle into planning to build its rapid transit expansion as a monorail to serve tourists, rather than a LRT expansion?


Consider that the SeaBus takes 15-minutes to cross (including the turn around) and a SkyTrain extension would get you across in 2-4 minutes. Also consider that we can extend rapid transit service throughout the North Shore as part of this new underground rail crossing.


The only reason I'm an occasional visitor is because getting there is such a hassle. The SeaBus takes forever, and once you're across the only place you visit is Lonsdale because the bus routes to other sites and shopping areas are completely incompetent.

Agreed. The potential for foot traffic from tourists and residents alike could be huge for the north shore. Their waterfront would come alive with activity and serve as a great vantage point of the skyline. A skytrain connection would do wonders for bringing the North Shore that much closer to downtown. (in terms of length of travel).

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Agreed. The potential for foot traffic from tourists and residents alike could be huge for the north shore. Their waterfront would come alive with activity and serve as a great vantage point of the skyline. A skytrain connection would do wonders for bringing the North Shore that much closer to downtown. (in terms of length of travel).

And if it does get built and senile seniors don't get in the way, it would be a huge boom for redevelopment....i'd guarantee you that you would see multiple projects just like Site 8 - i sure will miss that project.

The North Shore has a lot of potential to become Vancouver's own Kowloon.

[LeftCoaster]

It will never happen, not only is the political will power not there to make it happen, the political will power is there for force it not to happen.

The Northshore will remain a low density haven outside of the Lonsdale and the marine drive corridors. The residents of the north shore stand to gain far too much property value keeping it a low density high income community right next to downtown, they will never let densification happen to any significant degree. It could be almsot cool in a sense, if 20-30 years down the road most of vancouver had densified, but the norht shore had remained single family homes, it would be so extremly wealthy and unique it would probably become quite a famous area.

That however is only one silver lining of fighting denisfication on the North shore, I for one would like to at least see Lonsdale/Esplinade become much more of a second downtown... however as it stands the transit infrastructure just isnt there right now.

[yogiderek]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I went there today and wrote some lengthy comments, including the importance of execptional design, grandeur, and sustainability for the station renovations and additions. Regarding the mix of transit modes I asked that they envision regional electric rail and a fixed rail connection beneath Burrard Inlet being incorporated at some point down the line via tunnels. Lastly, I said that the 400' limit on the towers must be relaxed significantly in order to maximize the site and realise architectural significance. I put something to the effect of this being the best waterfront land in the CBD of Canada's pacific metropolis; this is the place for significant office buildings. I also, rather cheekily, said that the Shangri-La has topped out and the sky hasn't fallen.

It was very well attended when I was there around 5pm.

good work, I said the same thing on the comment card, in regards to building height. One significant super tall on the waterfront. Time for a new tall tower with an observation deck. The Harbour center has had its day as a lookout on the city. Still alot of people at around 6 pm.

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

And if it does get built and senile seniors don't get in the way.

By the time that gets built [SkyTrain to North Van], we'll all be senile seniors

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

It will never happen, not only is the political will power not there to make it happen, the political will power is there for force it not to happen.

The Northshore will remain a low density haven outside of the Lonsdale and the marine drive corridors. The residents of the north shore stand to gain far too much property value keeping it a low density high income community right next to downtown, they will never let densification happen to any significant degree. It could be almsot cool in a sense, if 20-30 years down the road most of vancouver had densified, but the norht shore had remained single family homes, it would be so extremly wealthy and unique it would probably become quite a famous area.

That however is only one silver lining of fighting denisfication on the North shore, I for one would like to at least see Lonsdale/Esplinade become much more of a second downtown... however as it stands the transit infrastructure just isnt there right now.

There will be a gradual creep-up of densification, if the existing highrises around Lonsdale are any indication, right? Isn't it just a matter of time before the highrise dwellers grow and reach critical mass, outweighing the single house NIMBY's?

[quobobo]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

There will be a gradual creep-up of densification, if the existing highrises around Lonsdale are any indication, right? Isn't it just a matter of time before the highrise dwellers grow and reach critical mass, outweighing the single house NIMBY's?

To some extent, sure... but remember those highrise dwellers are often crazy protective about their views.

[jlousa]

RE Nutterbug post

Not really, alot of the time it's the highrise dwellers that turn out to be the biggest nimbys. Pretty ironic isn't it.
I think we will see densification there but it'll be generational, each generation will be more acceptable then the one before it, so the resistance fades with time.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by jlousa

RE Nutterbug post

Not really, alot of the time it's the highrise dwellers that turn out to be the biggest nimbys. Pretty ironic isn't it.

And bloody hypocritical at that. Slam the door after you get in.

I was of the assumption that the highrise dwellers would want a more convenient transit connection more than anyone else, since driving around in their area is such a pain.

I suppose there are also single house dwellers in nearby areas who are licking their chops to sell their lot to a highrise developer at a premium.