Saskatoon Construction

[socialisthorde]

Originally Posted by Boris2k7

You know, Calgary and Edmonton get slagged a lot in here, and I won't deny that we have bad sprawl problems, but it's not like we aren't going anything about it. It could be better, but we're trying.

Quite frankly, you aren't growing like we are, and I wonder how Regina and Saskatoon would handle it. For reference, between 2001 and 2006, Calgary grew by 13.4%, Edmonton 10.4%, Toronto 9.2%, Saskatoon 3.5%, Regina 1.1%.

It's very difficult to handle sprawl in a high-growth environment, as concerns over land costs and economic growth hamper civic administrations due to political pressure.

Personaly, I never meant to slag Edmonton or Calgary, and each city has many fine features we could emmulate, but from what I read, even the majority of forummers from those two cities are critical of the sprawl. It is indeed difficult to plan during a boom, and I think that is why we are looking West where you are already dealing with it to see how we might best manage it here. Unfortunately that generally means looking at things that went wrong. We are certainly not free from sin, but we are early enough in the process to prevent it from going further astray. Both Calgary and Edmonton are struggling to repair or deal with the results of sprawl. We could save money and grief, by preventing them in the first place.

[shmakim]

Personally, I'm delighted to see that there's so much talk about core redevelopment, rather than simply accepting suburban sprawl as the only option out there. I don't think we'll ever get rid of suburban sprawl, simply because so many people want to live in a quiet neighbourhood with their own greenspace and a nice new house. But the fact that there's a 20 storey condo planned to be built downtown, and numerous warehouses getting converted, may convince investors that there IS a good demand for living spaces in the core, and development can continue in both the inner city and the suburbs.

Calgary, for all its sprawl, is working to densify. The original plan back in 1980 to have LRT stops surrounded by condo and office towers, and retail (town centre concept), was abandoned because the economy tanked shortly after. It took 25 years for them to bounce back from that to the point where the towers are finally being built at the Heritage LRT station, and a new building has been added at Southland. I guess I was living a pretty forward-thinking utopian dream, that I lived way off in a southern suburb, and could take the train directly to my office, which was still way in the south, and never have to journey into the downtown core. I had my own town centre, and it wasn't necessarily car-centric. Then I moved back to Saskatoon.

[prairieguy]

I for one cannot wait for some of these downtown residential projects to get finished. Being the "conservative" prairie guy that I am, I hesitate to purchase based on specs/plans and prefer to see a finished product first. I realize this impacts the price I will pay, as pre-construction offerings are usually substantially less then completed projects (RiverFront Condos on Spadina a good example).

As someone who has been looking for a decent downtown condo for over a year now, I can tell you that there is very little on the market that meets what my wife and I are looking for. Part of this is what is on the market and the prices. I am hoping that with King George, 2nd Ave lofts, recently completed Ave D Lofts and the upcoming River Landing tower that inventory will stabilize prices a bit. We are open to spending around $400k, but we also want quality/location for that. So far, nothing in Saskatoon fits that.

Here's looking forward to the future! (and I hope near future!!)

[molasses]

for anyone intersted in the riversdale lap, i just saw this public service announcement.


RIVERSDALE LOCAL AREA PLAN – PUBLIC OPEN HOUSE ON APRIL 15

The City of Saskatoon City Planning Branch is hosting an Open House to showcase the Riversdale Local Area Plan Final Draft Report with the community:

Tuesday, April 15
5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.
Royal Canadian Legion
606 Spadina Crescent West

This is a drop-in event where the public is welcome anytime during the Open House.

The City of Saskatoon and the Riversdale Local Area Planning Committee (a committee of residents, property owners, business owners and other stakeholders) have been working on a comprehensive plan for Riversdale to help guide the growth and development of the neighbourhood. Currently in final draft form, the Riversdale Local Area Plan is expected to go to City Council for endorsement this spring.

The Local Area Plan is available for viewing on the City of Saskatoon website at www.saskatoon.ca (look under 'C' for City Planning, Local Area Planning).

[BrannyMuffin]

Originally Posted by prairieguy

I for one cannot wait for some of these downtown residential projects to get finished. Being the "conservative" prairie guy that I am, I hesitate to purchase based on specs/plans and prefer to see a finished product first. I realize this impacts the price I will pay, as pre-construction offerings are usually substantially less then completed projects (RiverFront Condos on Spadina a good example).

As someone who has been looking for a decent downtown condo for over a year now, I can tell you that there is very little on the market that meets what my wife and I are looking for. Part of this is what is on the market and the prices. I am hoping that with King George, 2nd Ave lofts, recently completed Ave D Lofts and the upcoming River Landing tower that inventory will stabilize prices a bit. We are open to spending around $400k, but we also want quality/location for that. So far, nothing in Saskatoon fits that.

Here's looking forward to the future! (and I hope near future!!)

Depending on demand, it may also impact whether or not there is anything available!

[Stewie]

EXTRA EXTRA - This just in...

The month to month parking contracts for the old Extra Foods site are not being renewed past April 30th. Anticipation is that construction begins on a 4 storey structure to occupy the empty lot on 3rd ave May 1st.

[swilley]

Originally Posted by Stewie

EXTRA EXTRA - This just in...

The month to month parking contracts for the old Extra Foods site are not being renewed past April 30th. Anticipation is that construction begins on a 4 storey structure to occupy the empty lot on 3rd ave May 1st.

You mean 34 right????

[circle33]

Great news. I'm fine with four stories at that location. It'll scale nicely with what surrounds it.

[kgc087]

The Riversdale redevelopment plan looks great! I feel that they could expand the commercial zoning a bit to possibly meet up with riverlanding along some of the avenues as well as increase the amount of medium to high density residential spots. Hopefully as redevelopment takes hold larger more impressive developments will take root closer to the d/t area and riverlanding while the low density residential may be pushed back closer to the west edge of riversdale.

[macca]

Originally Posted by Stewie

EXTRA EXTRA - This just in...

The month to month parking contracts for the old Extra Foods site are not being renewed past April 30th. Anticipation is that construction begins on a 4 storey structure to occupy the empty lot on 3rd ave May 1st.

The long rumoured boutique hotel?

I think another 10 or so stories of condos on top would be great.

[MalcolmTucker]

I found interesting the story of the city buying farmland to build a new neighborhood, including servicing the lots etc.

In Calgary, private companies buy the land, service the land, build the roads, etc. Then all the individual lots also pay huge fees back into a general fund at the city for larger infrastructure at time of sale (things like new fire stations, libraries, and recreation centres).

Which leads me to wonder: is Saskatoon getting all the value it could out of new periphery development? (if Saskatoon continues on that path of course)

The city doesn't even do most of the planning for new developments like this. A land developer will prepare a land use plan in partnership with the planning bureaucracy (so it fits city wide plans, density requirements, etc) and then the plan goes to city council for approval.

[joelpiecowye]

ya can't wait for another 4 story building in stoon,

mabey if we r lucky enought it will be cement or stuco

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by shmakim

Personally, I'm delighted to see that there's so much talk about core redevelopment, rather than simply accepting suburban sprawl as the only option out there. I don't think we'll ever get rid of suburban sprawl, simply because so many people want to live in a quiet neighbourhood with their own greenspace and a nice new house. But the fact that there's a 20 storey condo planned to be built downtown, and numerous warehouses getting converted, may convince investors that there IS a good demand for living spaces in the core, and development can continue in both the inner city and the suburbs.

Calgary, for all its sprawl, is working to densify. The original plan back in 1980 to have LRT stops surrounded by condo and office towers, and retail (town centre concept), was abandoned because the economy tanked shortly after. It took 25 years for them to bounce back from that to the point where the towers are finally being built at the Heritage LRT station, and a new building has been added at Southland. I guess I was living a pretty forward-thinking utopian dream, that I lived way off in a southern suburb, and could take the train directly to my office, which was still way in the south, and never have to journey into the downtown core. I had my own town centre, and it wasn't necessarily car-centric. Then I moved back to Saskatoon.

Awesome, you lived in Calgary during the 70s/80s?

If you don't mind, when did you move back to Saskatoon?

That is one of the great things about Saskatoon, it is a small city but many of it's residents have lived and experienced other larger cities, something that always bodes well for future development.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

I found interesting the story of the city buying farmland to build a new neighborhood, including servicing the lots etc.

The city and the rural municipality surrounding the city is subject to policies and bylaws established by the Planning District Development Plan and governed by province's Planning and Development Act. Also worth noting, the City of Saskatoon established a land bank a few decades back which in theory allows the city to decide what, where and pace of growth and development occurs at (e.g. management of sprawl).

The Saskatoon Planning District is an area inside the Rural Municipality (R.M.) of Corman Park that extends approximately three to ten kilometers from the City limits where the R.M. and the City of Saskatoon have a joint interest in managing land use and development.

Source

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

In Calgary, private companies buy the land, service the land, build the roads, etc. Then all the individual lots also pay huge fees back into a general fund at the city for larger infrastructure at time of sale (things like new fire stations, libraries, and recreation centres).

In Saskatoon, the city owns the land (Saskatoon established a land bank several decades ago), services the land, builds the roads, etc. Residential and industrial lots are then released and sold to contractors and individuals according to market conditions (e.g. supply and demand).

The City of Saskatoon sells residential lots to individuals and eligible contractors through periodic lot draws for newly developed subdivisions and neighborhoods. Once a lot draw has been completed, any remaining lots are offered for sale "over the counter" on a first come first serve basis. These "over the counter" lots may be put on hold or purchased by qualified individuals and eligible contractors at any time.

Source - City of Saskatoon - Purchasing Residential Lots

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

Which leads me to wonder: is Saskatoon getting all the value it could out of new periphery development? (if Saskatoon continues on that path of course)

Good question, can you clarify what you mean by value?

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

The city doesn't even do most of the planning for new developments like this. A land developer will prepare a land use plan in partnership with the planning bureaucracy (so it fits city wide plans, density requirements, etc) and then the plan goes to city council for approval.

In Saskatoon, the city planning department is responsible for designing a land use plan, I suspect with input from the Saskatoon and Region Home Builders Association

After completing the land use plan, the city planning department will present a finalized plan to city council for approval.

[MalcolmTucker]

Value as in, I think it would be pretty easy to price things at what would effectively be a subsidized price if the city was concerned about affordability and supply. (or was in the pockets of developers!)

When its private, your assured that all local servicing, and road costs are passed onto the buyers in the end, in addition to the land costs. The city also doesn't end up taking risks that lots won't be bought (not a major risk now, but historically it was).

If you make developers responsible for the entire communities, there is incentive for them to provide higher value amenities to residents.

You can manage sprawl without the land bank or whatever you call it. You just don't give building permits for what you don't want, when it doesn't conform to wider policy.

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

Value as in, I think it would be pretty easy to price things at what would effectively be a subsidized price if the city was concerned about affordability and supply. (or was in the pockets of developers!)

Hmmm.....are you saying the City of Saskatoon currently does not have the ability to subsidize the price of periphery lots (thereby making them affordable) and an alternative method of private developers playing a more active role in land distribution/development would provide more affordable lots for home buyers?

From your initial thought of

Which leads me to wonder: is Saskatoon getting all the value it could out of new periphery development? (if Saskatoon continues on that path of course)

With the above, I am thinking you are suggesting Saskatoon (and it's citizens) could get more value (e.g. extra dollars for the taxpayer? for the city? for the developer? for the home buyer?) if private developers controlled more of the development process, is this what you are suggesting?

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

When its private, your assured that all local servicing, and road costs (their might be some cost savings to be had with subcontracting, only if there are cheaper sources of labor over city employees...in fact I think some road/servicing work is contracted out) are passed onto the buyers in the end, in addition to the land costs. The city also doesn't end up taking risks that lots won't be bought (not a major risk now, but historically it was).

Yeah, agreed. However, under current conditions the city can set the price for any piece of land in any part of the city to reflect the costs of servicing, road building, etc. For some reason, I feel more secure knowing the city has greater control over the market...perhaps that is based on misunderstanding.

I suppose the fundamental difference between private and public development of land is who profits from what and by what method(s) do either obtain their respective profits (manipulation of the market is another element).

There is so much to think about with each respective system, I'll have to sleep on it and give it more thought.

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

If you make developers responsible for the entire communities, there is incentive for them to provide higher value amenities to residents.

Higher value amenities? Like golf courses, retail, parks and such, all the new periphery communities include those higher value amenities, or are you referring to something completely different?

Are there some amenities the city can't or won't provide? Maybe, depending on whether or not they meet standards set by various planning policies and bylaws.

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

You can manage sprawl without the land bank or whatever you call it. You just don't give building permits for what you don't want, when it doesn't conform to wider policy.

In this market, owning land gives the city great ability to price and profit from new development (keep taxes down?), determine distribution of land (who does or doesn't get land), pace of development (slow, moderate, fast).

But you are right, in some ways denying building permits can be just as effective.

[The Bess]

Hi guys been reading this thread since page 41. I moved from toon town about 20 years ago. to Van. Im happy things are happening their. Maybe Ill move back soon. Off the subject there is a series about sask's boom on BNN started this last Friday and will run all next week.

[Echoes]

^Welcome! It's nice to see so many new S'toon natives on the forum as of late. I hope you do return to Toon Town soon. On top of all the exciting things happening right now, there are many promising things on the horizon!

[joelpiecowye]

what series is this do u know the time it is on?

[Ruckus]

Originally Posted by joelpiecowye

what series is this do u know the time it is on?

Search for BNN on google, and then search their site for "Saskatchewan". I found a video of Premier Wall (dated April 11th, 2008), also, a few other "SASKABOOM" topics aired according to their Friday schedule. I also watched a video of Mayor Atchison answering some questions about Saskatoon (dated from 2007, IIRC), and BNN used some older video clips of downtown Saskatoon...the skywalk from the Bay building to the parking garage over 2nd Ave was still visible.

Cool stuff, makes me feel special