AUSTIN | Projects & Construction II

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by DTAustin

I saw the renderings for the Gables apartment building that is going to replace the Fox & Hound and the Gingerman. I have to say I am very disappointed. The building is very plain, with a shear veritcal wall and very little architectural design. I am most disappointed that the Gables has decided to replace a very cool, 100+ year old building (Gingerman) with a very uncreatively designed apartment complex. Their token to the Gingerman is that they are going to cut off the facade and place it on the front of their building, similar to the Goodwill building along Lamar. There will be ground floor retail and restaurants and 4-5 stories of above ground parking all sitting below the apartment levels. I think it will be 14 stories with a FAR of 7.9, thus not requiring any public input. I believe the parking garage will enter from and exit into the alley. I don't know how that is allowed. Worst of all, the cars in the parking garage will be visible from Republic Square Park across the street.

It sounds to me like the Gables wants to kill the goose that lays the golden egg with this project. If Austin looses more of the smaller buildings to high rises, downtown will not be nearly as fun or as cool as it is now.

I HATE it that Gables has that property. They build suburban apt crap. (oh, IMHO). I am not surprised at all that company would build bland and have little concern for where they are building. And the worse part is.... people will rent it. Be Brave... write the company.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

I sort of have a love/hate relationship with that building. It is unique in that it was one of our first modernist buildings (not the first as the previous ABJ article mentioned). The color is unique, ugly yeah, but definitely different. My real gripe with it is that it's completely vacant and no one has showed serious interest in redeveloping it. My other gripe is it's location and the potential for that property. There's no height restriction there. They mentioned it has a 40,000 square foot foot print and that the FAR would allow a tower there of 350,000 square feet. I would imagine that would mean a 30-story tower. Think about the Bank of America Center for a minute. That tower is 251,000 square feet and covers roughly the same area as about half of what the Starr Building does. They could put the tower on one side, and have parking on the other and maybe partially under it. With a 40,000 square foot foot print, compared to Bank of America Center that would make it about 3 or 4 floors taller than the Bank of America Center. So 29 to 30 stories.

I have a conflict here myself. I think it is a very cool little building and am please as punch that a developer saw it's potential. However, I also agree that while we don't have many of that era...it is not of historical significance.... and agree that block is a great opportunity to go tall.

[Saddle Man]

Maybe the building could be moved? I bet it could.

[Mopacs]

The Terrace office park in SW Austin is set for expansion. This next phase has at least two 200+ foot towers proposed. This site is situated on a very prominent hill overlooking downtown and the Barton Creek Greenbelt, which is drawing some criticism by nearby residents. At approx 16 floors, the towers would be visible for MILES...The existing buildings on the site are all visible from downtown Austin, and points northward. (The site is located across Mopac from Barton Creek Mall)

The Terrace website: http://www.terraceaustin.com/

See Statesman article below:

http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/realestate/03/07/0307terrace.html

_______________________________________________________

More buildings planned at Terrace office park

But some neighbors object to proposed height

By Shonda Novak
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Friday, March 07, 2008



The developer of several proposed buildings at the Terrace office park in Southwest Austin has filed amended plans that some Barton Hills Neighborhood Association members say could put two tall buildings too close to the Barton Creek greenbelt.
Richard Suttle Jr., an Austin attorney representing the developer, and Barton Hills neighborhood representatives met Thursday evening to discuss a possible compromise about the height of the proposed buildings, two of which could rise more than 200 feet.

The Terrace office park is at South MoPac Boulevard (Loop 1) and Capital of Texas Highway (Loop 360). It consists now of four buildings owned by Behringer Harvard Operating Partnership LP, a Dallas-based real estate investment trust.
Behringer Harvard bought the buildings in 2006 from W&G Partnership, which includes local partner Rod Arend and Midland-based Claydesta Corp.

W&G has an approved site plan that allows for four more office buildings. However, the amended plans Suttle recently filed with the City of Austin calls for three buildings: two towers that would rise 212 feet and 205 feet, or about 16 stories each, plus a 60-foot-tall office building.

The fourth building, which would have been closest to the nearest Barton Hills neighborhood, would be eliminated, Suttle said.
The 207,000 square feet that would have been in the fourth building would be split between the two office towers, which would make them the tallest structures on the site — and in that part of town.

Suttle said eliminating one office building, and shrinking the footprint of the tallest buildings by putting them atop parking, would reduce the impervious cover, or the area covered by structures, by 4 acres.

"That's substantial," Suttle said. "There's already an approved site plan for the buildings, and all we're doing is adding floors."

Peter Hess, speaking for himself and not on behalf of the Barton Hills Neighborhood Association, which represents about 1,200 households, said the proposed buildings would be "highly visible from Barton Creek and very invasive for the greenbelt.
"The greenbelt is such an oasis of peace in the middle of a bustling city," Hess said.

"Having two office towers by the creek would greatly impact our experience of this great natural treasure. In that sense, this is not just an issue of how these towers would impact the Barton Hills neighborhood, which is directly across from the (proposed buildings), but this becomes an issue of great importance for all citizens of Austin."
Hess said that if developers had to file a new site plan application, they would have to build under the more stringent rules governing building in environmentally sensitive watershed areas.

But, Hess said, the original master plan approved in 1987 "exempts them from all zoning regulations and gave them a very generous building entitlement."
"Consider that you can build in excess of 120 feet in height only in the central business district," Hess said. "Why should they be able to build two office towers of 212 and 205 feet right on top of Barton Creek?

"I think that this would set a very bad precedent for development over the Barton Creek watershed and anywhere outside the downtown area," he said.
Hess said the neighborhood group's committee on area development, of which he is chairman, has voted to oppose the new site plan.
"We are also discussing alternatives with the developers, and we are hopeful that we can find a compromise solution," Hess said.

Suttle said he will consider a neighborhood proposal to reduce the height to 120 feet on one of the taller buildings and to 100 feet on the other.
"We look forward to meeting with them," Suttle said. "We're hoping that there's something that can accomplish all the goals."

[email protected]; 445-3856

[priller]

Nice old photo of the skyline they have on their web site. 360? Monarch? Not even Frost Tower?!?

[Mopacs]

Originally Posted by priller

Nice old photo of the skyline they have on their web site. 360? Monarch? Not even Frost Tower?!?

Yep... They havent updated their site in several years. I've had it bookmakred since 1999 or 2000 and it hasnt changed much. The skyline shot looks to be circa mid-2001. 300 W 6th is still under construction (see crane beside the "E" in THE)

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

I HATE it that Gables has that property. They build suburban apt crap. (oh, IMHO). I am not surprised at all that company would build bland and have little concern for where they are building. And the worse part is.... people will rent it. Be Brave... write the company.

Yeah. I am holding out and hoping that they'll do us right with the Gables Park Plaza project near Lamar, though. That one actually sounds good with the setup, at least in the initial announcement. I just hope it's not fake. I can't stand cheap architecture. Taking designs from certain architectural styles and eras, and doing some shotty half effort of a job in recreating it. Makes me want to hurl. The Plaza and Hampton Inn & Suites come to mind here.

Originally Posted by MichaelB

I have a conflict here myself. I think it is a very cool little building and am please as punch that a developer saw it's potential. However, I also agree that while we don't have many of that era...it is not of historical significance.... and agree that block is a great opportunity to go tall.

Yeah, I mean it is unique, but it's not really historically significant as some people think. The Perry Brooks Building on Brazos Street for example was built 3 years before it was and is at least twice its height and is of the same architectural style and even similar design.

Originally Posted by kingkirbythegreat

Maybe the building could be moved? I bet it could.

I wonder if they could do that. I don't see how though. Street widths in downtown are only 80 feet and that's if they removed traffic lights and everything else to get around them. According to GoogleEarth the building is approximately 95 by ~210 feet. So I doubt they could move it. About the only option would be to take it apart piece by piece and rebuild it elsewhere, like within a capitol view corridor. But again, I don't think the building is historically, or architecturally worth the cost of doing that. A project like that would likely cost millions.

[Saddle Man]

It can be done. And if it's not historically or architecturally worth the cost of moving it, then who cares if it is torn down. It seems like a few people around here seem to think it is worth it.

[DTAustin]

Originally Posted by kingkirbythegreat

It can be done. And if it's not historically or architecturally worth the cost of moving it, then who cares if it is torn down. It seems like a few people around here seem to think it is worth it.

I don't think they care, or that they will move it. If they did, that would have been mentioned in the meeting. Oh, and they plan on using the front facade of the Gingerman building on the entrance of the Gables building. Hopefully the remaining bricks don't end up in a landfill.

I'm mostly concerned about the changing environment in the warehouse district. Austin needs some of those older buildings to retain character - and that character is part of what makes Austin attractive. This time its the Gingerman, next it will be that entire street. In this case, it really is killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. What's the point of living downtown if all of the cool bars and restaurants are turned into high rises?

Trust me. I love high rises, but I don't think every old building should be torn down to build one - especially if the old building will be replaced by uninspired crap.

[nixcity]

Seems like with enough surface parking lots remaining they would push to develop those first, what about the one right behind AMLI 2 at 3rd and Lupe streets? Goebles should take their project to the Domain if they do not want to keep what makes downtown a great place to be. I thought that is what the "2nd downtown" was supposed to be for. However, in the case of 5th and Congress, too great of a space, and definately a worthy project to take its place.

[KevinFromTexas]

On the Terrace project. First of off all, the tallest building on site is already 100 feet tall with 6 floors according to the architects. Judging from the Terrace's website and the site plan map posted by the American-Statesman, it looks like the two taller buildings would be on the southern end of the site. I would imagine they probably will be prominent in the area and visible from the greenbelt, (the shorter buildings already are). But, they will be setback from the creek. Using GoogleEarth, the nearest new building would be a little over 1,100 feet from the creek.

My brother and I hike there several times a year. We can be there in 5 minutes from our house. I'm also anticipating being able to see them from my neighborhood since when the other buildings were being built I could see the cranes. That will be kind of neat actually.

If the worst part about the project is that you might be able to see it from the creek then I have no problem with it. I'd rather the buildings be taller and reduce the impervious coverage in the area and take up less land, then to have shorter buildings. With less coverage the creek will stay healthier.

Here's a shot I took of the buildings in 2006 at a forum meet in downtown. The new taller buildings would be a little more than twice the height of the building in the middle.

[priller]

Just drove by the Austonian site, they were adding sections to the other crane. Got pictures, I'll post them tonight.

I was just thinking, with 2 cranes there, 2 at Altavida, then add the ones for 4 Seasons and W and Ovation, there's going to be serious "cranage" in a small section of downtown by summer.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by DTAustin

I don't think they care, or that they will move it. If they did, that would have been mentioned in the meeting. Oh, and they plan on using the front facade of the Gingerman building on the entrance of the Gables building. Hopefully the remaining bricks don't end up in a landfill.

I'm mostly concerned about the changing environment in the warehouse district. Austin needs some of those older buildings to retain character - and that character is part of what makes Austin attractive. This time its the Gingerman, next it will be that entire street. In this case, it really is killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. What's the point of living downtown if all of the cool bars and restaurants are turned into high rises?

Trust me. I love high rises, but I don't think every old building should be torn down to build one - especially if the old building will be replaced by uninspired crap.

yep.... keep sayin' it and sayin' loud. You will see folks try to make the point that "buildings don't make the cool.... people do"..... but I don't buy it. The total atmosphere counts. And the more generic the environment.... yadayada......

[hismasterplan]

Originally Posted by priller

Just drove by the Austonian site, they were adding sections to the other crane. Got pictures, I'll post them tonight.

I was just thinking, with 2 cranes there, 2 at Altavida, then add the ones for 4 Seasons and W and Ovation, there's going to be serious "cranage" in a small section of downtown by summer.

Might be a little bit of an eyesore, at least to me. But in the long run it's worth it.

[Jdawgboy]

I don't think they should be building any buildings near the Greenbelt in the first place. I was upset when they added those office buildings right next to the creek on the intersection of 360 and Mopac on that southeast corner. Let alone the other projects that went up in that area.

As far as that Starr building goes. Keep the mural, get rid of the building. And since we already have an 800 footer proposed, lets shoot for a 1,000 footer on that site.

[mars-man]

Originally Posted by hismasterplan

Might be a little bit of an eyesore, at least to me. But in the long run it's worth it.

Look out! Them's fightin' words in this forum. Cranes are our friends.

[hismasterplan]

Okay, okay, I take it back. We're all basically on the same side here.

[Aiphanes]

Man Austin is growing so fast! I remember way back in 1986 when i first got there...the loop 360 bridge was just opening up!!!

william cannon was a dirt road in places....

I am in San Antonio now...but Austin still is a my home town...San Antonio is also blowing up in contruction too...not as much downtown..but it is starting. It is amazing how many high rises have been built are are being built in downtown Austin.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by mars-man

Look out! Them's fightin' words in this forum. Cranes are our friends.

Sad but true. Cranes...... pretty. They make us happy. We all need help.

[LoneStarMike]

Originally Posted by Aiphanes

I remember way back in 1986 when i first got there...the loop 360 bridge was just opening up!!!

The Loop 360 bridge opened up several years before that. December 3, 1982 to be exact.

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