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View Poll Results: Would you vote for a ETS Rapid Transit masterplan scheme?
Yes, I'd vote for more BRT/LRT 301 82.92%
No, what we have is fine. 34 9.37%
I dunno, maybe, yes, no, whatever. 28 7.71%
Voters: 363. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1561  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2008, 5:28 AM
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It's also the quickest route to get from West Ed to downtown/university.

I prefer this route myself but I also agree that extension along/under Jasper Ave is needed to 124th Street. Perhaps that extension could turn north on (or near) 124th and head to St.Albert through north-west Edmonton.
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  #1562  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2008, 5:40 AM
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Originally Posted by IKAN104 View Post
It's also the quickest route to get from West Ed to downtown/university.

I prefer this route myself but I also agree that extension along/under Jasper Ave is needed to 124th Street. Perhaps that extension could turn north on (or near) 124th and head to St.Albert through north-west Edmonton.
I would suggest 121st, and north, and then come to ground level at the old ROW along 121st st and through the NW and towards st albert?
     
     
  #1563  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2008, 3:21 PM
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Saving Old Strathcona from the automobile
by Lawrence Herzog
Inside Edmonton | Vol. 26 No. 8 | February 28, 2008



Edmonton 1969 freeway proposal.
City leaders pondering trenching Gateway Boulevard right through the heart of Old Strathcona should learn from history. Edmonton would be a much different place today had the city councils of 40 years ago pushed ahead with a grandiose scheme to run multi-lane roadways into the heart of the city from every which way.

They also might want to look at what other cities around the world are doing. Many of them are tearing down freeways, restricting vehicular access to their downtowns and reclaiming communities for people-friendly activities.

The cities have discovered the hard way that, instead of reducing congestion, freeways encourage people to move to remote suburbs and drive long distances to work and shop, increasing traffic dramatically. Freeways have blighted the core of many cities, leaving decaying and abandoned neighbourhoods.

The tug-of-war between the needs of the automobile and people-friendly, human scale communities has shaped our urban environments for much of the last 100 years. Those cities smitten with the automobile and its intoxicating speedy, independent mobility are places where public transit has been forsaken for urban sprawl, suburban strip malls, big box stores and a lifestyle that is simply unsustainable.

Edmonton has become one of those cities, and now even its greatest urban and heritage revitalization success story is on the chopping block. When the city’s transportation and public works committee rolled out plans to build what some are calling “Gateway Gulch,” it signalled that shaving a few minutes off a commute is a greater priority than the integrity of the city’s most beloved and richly historic district.

The scheme would widen Gateway Boulevard and trench it from a point just north of 84th Avenue under Saskatchewan Drive and through Queen Elizabeth Park, speeding the flow into downtown and accommodating more truck traffic. Pedestrians would traverse the trench by an overhead crossing.

The plan would cut the Old Strathcona arts district in half, marooning the Yardbird Suite and Catalyst Theatre from the Arts Barns, the Cosmopolitan Music Society, the Walterdale Theatre and the Varscona. It would strand the historic Ritchie Mill and the Strathcona Community League on the other side of the road.

Shirley Lowe, executive director of the Old Strathcona Business Association, is aghast at the scheme, and wonders how much more of our communities we are willing to sacrifice at the altar of the automobile. “This proposal is ill-considered on so many levels, but what is particularly galling is that it was completed without any community consultation,” she says.

“This ridiculous idea of a trench would destroy the connections so vital to Old Strathcona, and it would cut the Fringe Festival in half, cripple the Arts Barns and perhaps even spell the end of the Old Strathcona Farmer’s Market,” Lowe says. “It would make far more sense to move traffic volumes away from Old Strathcona.”

But sadly, as history shows, common sense is none too common.

Over the last 30 years, Old Strathcona has been resuscitated from a dying community with worn down old buildings into a vibrant, alive pedestrian-friendly shopping and tourist magnet. It took the passion and commitment of citizens who believed in the value of heritage, the advantage of owner-operator small business and the excitement that street-level, human scale interaction could bring.

They learned from the lesson of Jasper Avenue, which was ruined in virtually one decade – the 1970s – by bulldozing its old building stock, obliterating street-level businesses and making the automobile king. It’s no small irony that the very beginnings of the Old Strathcona Foundation came in 1974, out of the threat posed by destructive freeway proposals.
Those proposals, part of the “Downtown Freeway Loop” included a new bridge just east of the existing Walterdale Bridge, and expressways through Mill Creek Ravine, Cloverdale and the lap of Rossdale. Further west, the route was to continue up Mackinnon Ravine into west Edmonton.

The roadways would have destroyed Old Strathcona, and paved over much of the river valley and its adjoining ravines. Only a huge outcry from citizens stopped the fanciful farce. Fast forward to 2008, and it is deja vu all over again. The city is now proposing, piecemeal, expanded roadways into the river valley, and cutting into parks including Queen Elizabeth. Old Strathcona is once again on the chopping block.

What those advocating for wider, free-flowing roads into downtown won’t acknowledge is that adding capacity doesn’t alleviate congestion. Adding more lanes merely attracts more traffic, and congestion returns, usually sooner rather than later. Dump all that traffic into downtown, and gridlock will result.

Carving more roads into green space impairs the value of the habitat, adds to the greenhouse gases that cause climate change, obliterates the cleansing benefit of trees and shrubs and diminishes quality of life. The increased traffic flow brings more air pollution, more noise and more hazards for those on foot or bicycle.

Nothing depresses property values quicker than freeways. Living next to a multi-lane roadway, with its associated noise and air pollution, isn’t exactly a prime selling feature.

There’s no one solution to the tug-of-war, of course. But the city could start by immediately installing clear signage on the routes into downtown.

It could push forward with a multi-modal approach that would spread the commuter volumes across the river over several feeder routes – 109th Street and 99th Streets particularly – and increase investment in public transit. That’s where senior levels of government have a role to play, and the province must provide the dollars so urgently needed to improve public transit.

The city could say “no” to downtown developments, like an arena, that pull commuters from far-flung suburbs through core communities for quick-as-you-please in-and-out journeys. It could mandate any new developments that will draw large numbers of people be situated next to public transit corridors, particularly LRT.

Edmonton could learn from the experience of cities like Seoul, South Korea, which ripped down its elevated Cheonggye Freeway in 2003. The freeway has been replaced by a 14.5-kilometre Bus Rapid Transit line, designed to accommodate the drivers of the 120,000 cars that used the road every day. It is a stunning success story.

At the individual level, we’ve got to make choices to work and play closer to where we live, and reduce or eliminate commuting by car. We must lobby councillors, and elect those who understand the deep values of smart urban choices and the destruction automobile-centered planning brings.

Smarter urban planning has a role to play, too, and we urgently need communities that bring together in closer proximity the services we use in our day-to-day lives. Only by getting people out of their automobiles will Old Strathcona and the river valley survive the pressures of growth and the seemingly insatiable public thirst to get where they’re going quicker and more efficiently.

Otherwise, that spiderweb of freeways from 1969 will become the Edmonton of the 21st century.

©Copyright 2000-2007, All Rights Reserved. All articles, text and photographic material presented here is copyright. Unauthorized copying or re-distribution is strictly prohibited.
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  #1564  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2008, 3:45 PM
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/\ An interesting article, but it presents contrasting opinions.

It starts off ranting against the suburban sprawling community we have become, but shys away from higher density needed to counter-act this problem. It suggests transit instead to cater to these low-density suburbs without admitting that density makes these things work or fail. And it suggests not building big draw venues such as a new arena downtown because of the suburban draw it would have, but says build it on the LRT somewhere else... where the traffic wouldn't come down Gateway Blvd. I guess?

Anyways... I would say don't scream anti-car/multi-modal rhetoric unless you have the gumption to back it up appropriate density, infill and mixed-use.
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  #1565  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2008, 4:26 PM
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I like Herzog's articles for the most part and he raises some valid concerns. This was a first plan and it needs some serious work before it enhances rather than denigrates Old Strathcona.

His arena comment is off-base. It seems like he is arguing that we should not build venues and attractions in the core because they may attract suburban residents and increase pressure for faster road access. Does this apply to Art Galleries, concert halls, public squares for festivals, and theaters? Perhaps we should also encourage those downtown businesses and government offices to set up elsewhere because they are attracting far more suburban residents than a new arena ever would.
     
     
  #1566  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 3:15 PM
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87th Avenue a good choice for west LRT route
The Edmonton Journal
Published: 2:31 am
Re: "Mayor fighting LRT route plan: Transportation manager favours 87th Ave. to west end, but Mandel dears wholesale expropriations," The Journal, Feb. 28.

Methinks Mayor Stephen Mandel doth protest too much! I don't think I've ever seen him so venomously dispose of a concept. What exactly is behind it? Could it be that much of his support comes from those communities? His arguments against this proposed route are bizarre and unsupported.

As a resident of Rio Terrace and a frequent user of 87th Avenue, I fully support the plan to bring the LRT down 87th Avenue. And yes, if I lived on or one block away from 87th Avenue, I would still support this project.


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Font:****Mandel's diatribe clearly underlines that he holds a two-tier view of Edmontonians -- those who he can push around, and those who are off limits.

This route makes sense. A proposal to add two lanes of traffic and an LRT line to Whitemud, as some have suggested, doesn't.

If we are smart enough to choose the 87th Avenue route, we might have to bite the bullet and put the train into a tunnel at the zoo. We wouldn't want to subject the good people of Laurier to the stench of common, non-rich folk. And, if necessary, the LRT doesn't have to return to grade level until Meadowlark.

The good people of Laurier, Parkview, and Lynnwood are going to have to accept a new LRT line will be routed near to them.

Dave T. Jolly, Edmonton




© The Edmonton Journal 2008
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  #1567  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 3:20 PM
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Ya, he makes some valid points but loses credibility with other points. Sounded far too one-sided for my liking.
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  #1568  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 3:21 PM
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Trolleys' future may be off the rails
Susan Ruttan, The Edmonton Journal
Published: 2:31 am
EDMONTON - Edmonton's aging trolley buses may again be on the chopping block as the city manager hunts for ways to keep taxes from rising.

Al Maurer isn't saying for sure the trolleys are a target, but he lists "optimization of the transit fleet" as one way to save money this year.

Trolleys may end up on that "optimization" list, he told city council Wednesday.


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Font:****"The trolleys are a kind of sitting duck," said Coun. Ron Hayter.

When council set its budget last December, it asked Maurer to find ways to reduce the 7.5-per-cent tax increase by two percentage points.

That means $13.8 million in spending cuts.

Maurer told council he hopes to get $7 million of that amount from the city surplus for 2007.

However, since the surplus is one-time money, he promises to find permanent savings to cover the other $7 million in future years.

Maurer proposes two ways to do that: transit "optimization" and convincing the provincial government to pay the full cost of running city ambulances.

Currently, part of the ambulance cost is borne by city property taxes.

He said eliminating the trolleys is one obvious way to get transit savings.

City council in 2004 debated whether to keep the aging trolleys.

A report at that time said the city could save $60 million over a decade if it switched from trolleys to diesel buses.

Council voted to keep the trolleys until at least 2008. A report on the matter is expected later this year.

Coun. Don Iveson said he hopes the trolleys aren't taken out of service without a proper review of what's at stake.

Maurer's plan to find the $13.8 million also includes using money from "education tax room" -- that portion of city taxes assigned to education taxes that may remain unclaimed by the provincial government.

Cities learn each spring how much education tax room they get.

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© The Edmonton Journal 2008
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  #1569  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 4:37 PM
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Still no hint as to the results of the "new trolley" vs. "hybrid" experiment. I'm very curious to know how they compare in terms of costs.
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  #1570  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 5:01 PM
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Has anyone noticed a difference with the Hybrids?

I've never taken one, but I've walked past enough. Even if they're sitting at a busstop or at a light for a long period, they don't seem to spool down at all. Just a big old diesel running all the time.

But I have no idea how they're supposed to work. Should it be possible to see a difference?
     
     
  #1571  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 6:43 PM
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Wrong thread
     
     
  #1572  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 7:14 PM
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The original LRT plan called for continuing down Jasper before turning N up the old rail ROW. However, it seems that transport manager is set on sending the nLRT on from NAIT to St.Albert.
     
     
  #1573  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 7:38 PM
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He's not set on anything except getting the LRT outside city limits. It's all still on the table.
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  #1574  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 7:44 PM
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Hmm, the quotes attributed to him this past week seemed to indicate he want to send nLRT to SA. Regardless, as long as the routes are within the realm of reasonableness, which most of the proposals have to date (though I think a Quesnell LRT is a waste), I hope admin and council can avoid bickering and get them going.
     
     
  #1575  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 7:56 PM
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All this points to the fact that Edmonton needs a comprehensive study, and not just an idea of general direction of service drawn in wide arrows on a map.

Consultants or internal planners should lay out actual corridors, with routing all the way out to the final destination.

It is obvious that the seemingly one off planning methods right now aren't working too well.

Who knows, maybe the consultant would find the best option would be to build a second downtown tunnel to service the WLRT and Millwoods/SE LRT but having politicians make those decisions without reports in front of them is just a recipe for electoral disaster.
     
     
  #1576  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 8:09 PM
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I second that. Edmonton needs a full-scale regional LRT blueprint laying which lines are going where, potentially when and at what cost. There hasn't been anything like that done since 1983, the year I was born...
     
     
  #1577  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 8:27 PM
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Good call Kyle. Why not hire a private firm to do the hard work and number crunching to come up with some solid, blue-print ideas to start to formulate ideas on?
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  #1578  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mick View Post
Hmm, the quotes attributed to him this past week seemed to indicate he want to send nLRT to SA.
He wants LRT to go to St.Albert for sure, but which route eventually ends up going there is still open for discussion.
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  #1579  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 9:49 PM
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Good call Kyle. Why not hire a private firm to do the hard work and number crunching to come up with some solid, blue-print ideas to start to formulate ideas on?
You mean a company like Stantec?
     
     
  #1580  
Old Posted Feb 29, 2008, 9:57 PM
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/\ Sure. A company that should give me a job this summer. ....*cough*....
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