Montgomery development news

[g-man435]

Update pics?

[Capital Heights]

Once again, it seems to me that if you hold a job in Montgomery and choose to live in an upstart community based in another town that is aggressively pursuing its own public education system with the effect of pulling out the wealthier, healthier, and better prepared students and reducing the amount of public financing available to educate the students that are left behind then you are part of the problem of a declining city; not part of the solution.

To set the record straight; I believe I suggested you would have more credibility on the issue if you actually lived in Montgomery not some border town that actually poses a threat to the longterm health of Montgomery.

[Chad Emerson]

Okay, fine.

But, what about my question?

What is the strategy for addressing these perceptions that are limiting the ability of many of Montgomery's inner ring suburbs from realizing a stronger revitalization?

Telling people they should move is not a strategy.

Convincing people to do so requires one.

So, you can be frustrated where people live or you can develop a strategy for convincing them to move.

What is the strategy that you've developed to advance your position?

I am sincerely interested in hearing more about it.

[g-man435]

^^Well, what about my question.

[thoraudio]

Originally Posted by g-man435

^^Well, what about my question.

you're a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵.... how about my answer.

[g-man435]

^^Well, you won't take update pics so I have no choice.

[thoraudio]

Chad,

I've got to agree with Capitol Heights here. You've got a great community out there, and that's wonderful.

But does The Waters add, or subtract from the over all community of Montgomery?

It's created an enclave of 'elites'. Is it more community oriented then, say, Wynnlakes or Deer Creek? Yes.

But it's still exclusive, pricing itself above the reaches of 90+% of the river region.

It's pulled people from the overall community.

Chad, you've got to realize, 'smart growth' is about more than your carbon footprint, having good next door neighbors, and faux Arts and Crafts houses.

[Chad Emerson]

I know that my income is not in the 90% bracket for the region so I disagree with that premise of The Waters only catering to the top 90% of something.

Frankly, when I look at MLS listings for the Garden District (the type of infill that Capital Heights seems to highlight), I see costs per square foot that readily compare to The Waters.

Regardless though, the point remains: why is a historically great neighborhood like Capitol Heights not reaching a critical mass of revitalization?

People can complain about The Waters but, if the suggested numbers are to be believed, then that's just a small, sliver of the overall River Region population.

The more interesting (and concerning) fact is that all of these single-use, auto-centric subdivisions that dot Elmore, Autauga, and East Montgomery are more compelling to River Region home purchasers than these original ring suburbs.

In other words, despite the fact that you can get a house in Capitol Heights or Cottage Hill or Cloverdale for a similar price, many more River Region residents are choosing Halycon or Bridlebrook or any variety of Watts New Homes houses.

You can point fingers at The Waters all you want but it doesn't eliminate the fact that fewer people are moving into downtown housing or inner ring suburb housing than are not.

Despite the fact that Capitol Heights and its ilk offer wonderfully designed and constructed homes and neighborhoods with very convenient locations.

Unfortunately, this is a trend that is not abating, except for a few areas in Old Cloverdale. Indeed, by and large, those homebuyers with the ability to move are vacating downtown and the inner ring suburban developments for East Montgomery and Elmore/Autauga and even Auburn (again, b/c of schools)

Yet, rather than discuss this troubling trend and strategizing how to counter it, people want to demonize the less than 100 households that live at The Waters.

C'mon folks. We have some major challenges here in Montgomery. I travel extensively around the country and the only city of this size that comes close to lacking walkable urban environments is Jackson, Mississippi.

Beyond that city, Montgomery is getting left in the dust of many similar-sized cities like Columbia, S.C. or Raleigh, N.C. or Louisville, KY.

That in turn is leading to a "brain drain" where fewer and fewer young adults are interested in relocating here. Indeed, I see that all the time here at the law school. For many students, practicing in Montgomery is a fourth choice after B'ham, Huntsville, and Mobile.

Here is a truism that I have witnessed in every part of this country: successful places are generally demonstrated by successful regions. They feed off of each other to provide an improved whole.

However, if we use the Capital Heights approach, then those people who live in Prattville or Pike Road or Tallassee or Wetumpka and the like are causing Montgomery's problems because they don't live in the city limits.

To which my response is simple: most people wouldn't have moved there if Montgomery would aggressively revitalize its downtown and inner ring suburbs rather than point fingers and blame.

But, since Capital Heights and others don't seem interested in discussing strategic solutions, I'll propose a couple from out here in the hinterlands:

1. Micro-policing. This is a law enforcement approach where a city distributes numerous mini-stations or substations throughout the inner ring and downtown neighborhoods. Not one or even two but 15 or 20. The idea is to bring more people closer to a fixed, permanent police location (as opposed to our current dominant model where the policemen travel around in cars).

This approach could go along ways toward addressing the perceived safety issues in downtown and midtown neighborhoods.

2. Or, how about increasing the number of magnet schools to guarantee access to a magnet school to increase the odds that a child will get accepted which, in turn, gives a parent more confidence to move to an inner ring neighborhood where the existing, non-magnet school is underperforming.

Are these excellent solutions?

I have no idea.

But, they start the conversations. They begin the discussions and research.

They strive to a strategy of solutions rather than blame.

I hope others will join in and propose ideas, too.

I sincerely mean that.

[thoraudio]

From www.thewaters.al.com , the least expensive 'house' that I see (as opposed to a townhome) is a 3/2.5 for $248,000.

At 6.5% interest, that means P/I of $1500/month. Add escrow, subtract a down payment, and payments will be about $1700/month. That means that family income should be about $75,000/year. Which, according to this site, represents about 8%.

This isn't about demonizing The Waters anymore than you're demonizing Capitol Heights.

As I mentioned earlier, I've got mixed feelings about the smart growth suburbs. Houses look nice, nice amenities, etc....


BUT... but... what's your definition of community? Is it the 10 families around you? Or the 100? Or the 1000? Or the 10,000?

Is smart growth about feeling good about yourself?



For reasons explained earlier in the this thread, I live in a tradition 'burb' neighborhood in Prattville. I don't have a house that addresses the street 'right', or a coffee shop within walking distance, or exposed wood beams on my porch etc.... but my kids still play with the neighbors, I know the people at House of Java, see people I know at Wal-mart and ball games etc.... all from a non-smart growth community.

Do I wish my neighborhood was more walkable, with all those amenities... yep.

But that doesn't make a community.

Someday, I want to post a thread on the Selma community. The area close to the river is a picture postcard for 'smart growth'. Walkable, streets well addressed..... mixture of large and small houses.... and rotting away.

Community is about more than architecture.

[Brown Duckz]

Guys we might need a discussion thread too.

[g-man435]

^^Where have you been brownduckz? I thought you died. What in the world are you guys talking about? You don't need money to buy a house. All you need is a signature.

[Chad Emerson]

This isn't about demonizing The Waters anymore than you're demonizing Capitol Heights.

My gosh, Wes. The breakdown in communication is apparently so complete here that I should just leave.

I keep repeating about all the excellent aspects of Capitol Heights that would seem to make it a perfect neighborhood for you and your family to live. I've restated them in almost every post I've made. And, they have very little to do with architecture.

Yet, you--like me--choose to live outside of Montgomery's downtown neighborhoods and inner ring suburbs.

WHY?

That's what I keep asking--WHY?

Why is a place like Capitol Heights with great homes, great layout, great location not the obvious choice for people like our families?

That is such an incredibly crucial question to answer because it will form the basis for a strategy to addressing these issues.

After all, let me be perfectly clear: I would love the convenience of living in Capitol Heights--just a short jaunt down Atlanta Highway to the law school for me.

The same goes for Cottage Hill.

And, I suspect that I'm not alone at all in this respect.

But, rather than discussing The Waters, we should be discussing how to reverse the perceptions/realities that keep people like us from moving to this more sustainable places like Montgomery's original inner ring suburbs.

I've offered two ideas.

Does anyone have any others?

Or maybe this approach will work: I'll be glad to provide coffee and give a walking tour of The Waters this Saturday morning to explain the aspects that I believe need to be replicated in order to produce more sustainable growth.

Say 9am and meet at the market at The Waters?

If anyone is interested, you can email me at [email protected] or send me a Private Message via this board. We can look at everything from layout to amenities to lots of non-architecture stuff (like how, four doors down from me, lives a single guy who rents an affordable garage apartment).

I'll be at the market at 9am. Maybe we can further this discussion in person since it is not working well via email.

Chad.

[g-man435]

^^Because it's too expensive to live downtown. Duh.

[Chad Emerson]

...related to the proposed RSA project will be held on Tuesday evening at the Hank Williams Museum auditorium in Downtown Montgomery.

Here's a link to the new blog administered by Nathan Norris that is organizing the forum:

http://downtownmontgomery.wordpress.com/

[bystander1]

Originally Posted by Chad Emerson

...2. Or, how about increasing the number of magnet schools to guarantee access to a magnet school to increase the odds that a child will get accepted which, in turn, gives a parent more confidence to move to an inner ring neighborhood where the existing, non-magnet school is underperforming.

I have a question.

If a non-magnet school is underperforming, does it mean your child will automatically underperform there? After all, there are children that are over-achieving at the inner-ring schools too...

[Chad Emerson]

No, of course not.

I personally would rather have my child be middle of the road at a high-scoring school than top of the class at a lower-scoring school.

I know that others could certainly have other approaches though.

However, I have found it interesting that, unless you are zoned to one or two East Montgomery elementary schools, most people who can afford to send their children to private school in Montgomery opt to do so---with magnet school attendance being the one exception (or, of course, they move to Elmore, Autauga, or even as far away as Lee County).

Where we moved from in Knoxville, a much, much larger percentage of children whose parents could afford to send them to private school still attended public school.

That meant that there were many fewer public schools in Knoxville.

Right now though, I think the number of families that live in Old Cloverdale or the Garden District and send their children to non-magnet public schools is very low. That's extremely unfortunate but, as a parent, I also can understand if the zoned for public school is having low performance rates.

[bystander1]

Originally Posted by Chad Emerson

...Rather than disparage others and where they live, you should consider a strategy to answer that question. That would simply more likely to convince others to move there rather than criticizing people and where they currently live.

...It would seem to be a better strategic tact to create compelling responses to counter these perceptions rather than just telling others that they don't walk the walk or live in fantasy places.

...If you can develop compelling responses, then those can be used as a framework to begin the revitalization process when you bundle those responses together with the existing benefits like location.

...My "diatribe" is that you label places as "fantasy" when, in fact, real people creating real community live there.

...You started this conversation a page ago by essentially telling me that my opinion really didn't amount to much because I didn't live where you think I should live.

...Do you really think posting that kind of judgmental statement is going to attract my family or anyone else to live there? By telling us that our opinions and efforts really don't matter unless we meet your criteria.

By the way Chad, do you think the tatics you say Capitol Heights is using will work to change Bronner's mind on the RSA Judicial project?
After all, it was the same type of tactic you used on Bronner (RSA) in your ALABAMA VOICES editorial in the Advertiser on January 7th, 2008.

[Chad Emerson]

My approach in that editorial (for which I've received alot of positive feedback and, this is the first apparent negative one) was as follows:

1. Commend what RSA has done well (the resorts).

2. Explain what they have done wrong in two concise ways.

3. Provide other examples of how it could be done.

4. Never use Dr. Bronner's name (or any other name) so as to not make it focused on a person rather than an entity.

I think its pretty clear from the responses over the last couple of days that this board feels as if things in Montgomery are going well, the RSA project is a good thing, and those of us who don't live in the city limits should not get involved.

Okay, that's fine. I'll step away from the board.

Best of luck going forward. I sincerely hope that you all can help improve Montgomery as it remains terribly underperforming.

Take care to all, Chad.

[Capital Heights]

This is not a helpful turn of events.

[g-man435]

^^I still have no idea what we're talking about. Did a highrise die or something?