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  #1661  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 4:19 PM
michael_d40 michael_d40 is offline
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Originally Posted by kwajo View Post
I'd get more excited about the possibility of a Trump casino Uptown, but knowing Saint John, I can see things playing out like this:

Trump puts forth an amazing proposal for a complete casino/hotel development on the Lantic Sugar site, putting it in direct competition with the Racino proposal. Then the decision-making process on who gets the casino license gets delayed by 3 months, at which point the province somehow declares the Racino proposal the winner. The Telegraph-Journal writes a big front-page article about how great this is for the city, and Norm chimes in with "This new Racino will continue the boom in the East side of Saint John and further our development towards being Atlantic Canada's Energy Hub."

Meanwhile... 3000 people move out of the city in the next 12 months because we've failed to do anything to entice them to stay.
I actually was emailing Norm, and quoted what you said kwajo Because it has a bit of potential truth to it. (hopefully your wrong)
but in any event, if i get a response back from him. I will definately keep you all posted.
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  #1662  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 5:08 PM
thefishingnut thefishingnut is offline
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Originally Posted by kwajo View Post
I'd get more excited about the possibility of a Trump casino Uptown, but knowing Saint John, I can see things playing out like this:

Trump puts forth an amazing proposal for a complete casino/hotel development on the Lantic Sugar site, putting it in direct competition with the Racino proposal. Then the decision-making process on who gets the casino license gets delayed by 3 months, at which point the province somehow declares the Racino proposal the winner. The Telegraph-Journal writes a big front-page article about how great this is for the city, and Norm chimes in with "This new Racino will continue the boom in the East side of Saint John and further our development towards being Atlantic Canada's Energy Hub."

Meanwhile... 3000 people move out of the city in the next 12 months because we've failed to do anything to entice them to stay.
A Racino would be embarassing. How hick town can you get...
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  #1663  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 5:46 PM
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Your optimism makes me laff! But the way you describe the newspaper's spin is very accurate...

Lets hope you're wrong this time.

-----------------------------

Oh yeah, and BTW nice pix a way back; good to see the City Rd project progressing; Trump WOULD do it right...can't think of a better investor. (Can I be Project Manager?)
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  #1664  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 5:54 PM
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How hick town can you get...
Woah, woah, woah - are you saying that the insurmountable combination of a Racino next to the 3Mile would make us seem like a hick town? That's just crazy talk
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  #1665  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Alberta Bound View Post
Given the strong performance of the Canadian economy thus far relative to the downturn in the US, I think we are positioned to cruise through this one as a minor bump. I wouldn't be so confident if I was in southern Ontario where some smaller cities are largely dependent on exports of consumer goods to the US but I think the east coast and some western provinces will do just fine.
we are on a pretty big down turn on for example

Continuing selloff trashes all the 2007 gains on TSX
Markets Toronto index, Dow hit with triple-digit losses for third straight day

Malcolm Morrison
THE CANADIAN PRESS
Published Friday January 18th, 2008
Appeared on page B1
TORONTO - Canadian stock markets stumbled to another day of big losses Thursday, a third straight session of heavy selloffs that have wiped out all the gains piled up by equity investors in the last year.

Traders dumped commodity stocks on fears of sliding demand for oil and metals in the face of a sharp U.S. economic slowdown. Meanwhile, bank stocks fell as investors wonder when the steady drip of writedowns associated with the American mortgage market will stop.

The Toronto Stock Exchange's key index retreated more than 279 points or 2.1 per cent to nearly 12,796, the third straight day of triple-digit losses. Multibillion-dollar writedowns at U.S. banks from the battered U.S. housing sector and lower oil prices have dragged the TSX down a staggering 837 points or more than six per cent this week alone.

The market has lost 12.5 per cent of its value, or hundreds of billions of dollars, from its record high last fall. The stocks traded on the TSX are currently worth about $1.8 trillion.

The TSX main index is now about 113 points below where it started 2007 and a long way from the near 14,626 record hit last Oct. 30. The losses in recent months have partly offset a five-year run of annual gains that made the TSX one of the best performing stock markets in the world.

On Wall Street, the major U.S. markets also extended their 2008 plunge Thursday, tumbling after a regional Federal Reserve report showed a sharp decline in manufacturing and as investors feared that downgrades of key bond insurers could trigger further trouble with souring debt.

The Dow Jones industrial average lost more than 300 points, giving the index its lowest close since March and its worst three-day per centage decline since October 2002.

"It's not rocket science - the economy is slowing dramatically, and it's being reflected in economic reports," said John O'Donoghue, co-head of equities at the Cowen & Co. brokerage.

Stocks opened higher, but North American investors were quickly dismayed after a regional manufacturing survey came in worse than expected and U.S. Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke said the risks of a U.S. economic downturn are more pronounced.

O'Donoghue observed that if you look back at regional data from the Philadelphia Fed, it takes you back to the 2001 to 2002 U.S. recession.

Meanwhile, the White House announced that President George W. Bush has decided that an economic stimulus package is needed.

Bernanke echoed the sentiment, telling Congress in an economic update that such a plan should be implemented quickly and be temporary so it won't complicate longer-term fiscal challenges.

"In the U.S., I think most people are just hanging their hat on continuing Fed easing and... most people now are expecting a (half point) cut in the Fed funds rate," said Fred Pym, president and chief investment officer of Bissett Investment Management - although he added that lower rates won't be a surefire cure-all for the U.S. economy.

With so much volatility on the stock market, investment advisers say it's time for investors to stay calm, review their investment plan and look to defensive plays such as utilities, health care and consumer stocks to wait out the slowdown.

"Canadian investors looking into this year have to be cognizant of the fact the slowdown is occurring, that credit conditions are not going to improve at a fast rate," said Gareth Watson, associate director of Scotiabank's portfolio advisory group.

"It is going to take at least another six months and for that reason they will have to be patient. We're not going to see the returns that we've seen the last five years."
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  #1666  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 7:01 PM
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you probably wouldnt see this in the TJ for obvious reasons.

Lawsuit challenges Ottawa over Irving Oil refinery

Monday, January 14, 2008 | 3:05 PM AT
CBC News

Environmentalists are suing the federal government over a petroleum oil refinery proposed by Irving Oil Ltd. in Saint John, N.B., after alleging Ottawa ignored its own laws that require a full environmental impact assessment of the project.

The lawsuit, launched by Ecojustice on behalf of the Conservation Council of New Brunswick, the Fundy Baykeeper and Friends of the Earth Canada, challenges the federal government's decision to restrict its environmental impact assessment of the proposed refinery to the facility’s wharf structure.

The environmental groups said the lawsuit is intended to make sure that the proposed multi-billion refinery — called Project Eider Rock and expected to produce 48 million litres of crude oil a day and emit three million tonnes of greenhouse gases annually — faces a full scrutiny by the federal government.

"What a federal environmental assessment could do is ensure that if this goes ahead, the impacts on the environment, on people's health in Saint John and on the broader Bay of Fundy are minimized," said David Coon, the Conservation Council's policy director. "We don't believe that will happen with simply a provincial assessment, as is currently planned."

The lawsuit argues that under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, the federal government must study and minimize the harmful environmental impacts of large-scale industrial projects.

The Conservation Council said that if the Federal Court doesn't force a full review, the assessment of the refinery's environmental impacts would be left to the province, and it has been critical of New Brunswick "whose environmental assessment process failed to protect the environment from the massive upgrade of an existing Irving refinery."

The council said the emissions from Irving's existing refinery of carcinogenic benzene have increased by a factor of ten since the upgrade, increasing the levels of benzene in Saint John’s air by 60 per cent.

The provincial environmental assessment process found there would be no change in emissions of this carcinogenic air pollutant, the group said.

The council said that the latest Irving refinery is one of three new proposed refineries to be built in Canada in 25 years, and in each case the federal government didn't order a full environmental impact assessment.

It's expected the Federal Court will hear the case in mid-2008.
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  #1667  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 7:15 PM
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'Meaningful discussions'
Development City officials will unveil details Monday of their plan for public consultation on the police-justice complex


John Mazerolle
Telegraph-Journal
Published Friday January 18th, 2008
Appeared on page C1
SAINT JOHN - Mayor Norm McFarlane is promising that consultations about the police-justice complex north of Union Street will involve "meaningful discussions" with the public - but what that means exactly will not be clear until Monday.

"We have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and we want to make sure we engage the public in having meaningful conversations throughout the consultation process," McFarlane said in an interview in his office Thursday. But the mayor offered little in the way of details.

McFarlane said the complete details of the consultations will be released Monday, complete with a media briefing earlier in the day before common council decides whether to accept the plan that evening.

The question of when citizens will get involved in the approximately $100-million uptown project - and whether they'll be listened to - has been a hot topic since mid-November when Deputy Mayor Michelle Hooton said the project had advanced too far behind closed doors. She said that if the plans for the provincial courthouse, police headquarters, parking garage, and public space moved ahead too far without members of the public, they would have little say over the project except esthetics.

Since then, the signals coming from the city have been mixed.

McFarlane seemed to reinforce the deputy mayor's fears when he said in December that many of the historic buildings in the two-block area framed by Union Street, Hazen Avenue, Carleton Street and Wellington Row would come down for the development, regardless of what the public said.

However, chief planner Jim Baird said recently that the fate of the buildings would be part of the public consultation. And the mayor made a submission to the Telegraph-Journal recently saying that the upcoming community meetings were a "welcome conversation."

Asked Thursday whether he had been wrong before, McFarlane would not comment: "I'm not going to get into that," he said.

Hooton, in a separate interview, offered her view: "Apparently he's changed his position," Hooton said. "I would say he has come to recognize the value of community consultations."

With many questions yet to be answered until at least Monday, here's what is known about the project:

* Public consultations will start very soon and will include a website, newsletter, open house, workshops and stakeholder meetings. (Uptown Saint John Inc. has already received a briefing, and promises to deliver a response soon.)

* The former YMCA-YWCA will definitely be destroyed and the new multi-courtroom justice complex will go in its place.

* The Saint John Arts Centre will receive almost $2 million in restoration.

* The city owns everything on the western block of the development except the small auto maintenance centre. On the eastern block, it owns two buildings on Union Street, the Jewish Historical Museum, and the Shaarei Zedek synagogue. It is in negotiations for everything else there.

* The Saint John Parking Commission is buying pieces of land just north of the complex site, between Carleton Street and Sewell Street.

Coun. Chris Titus, chairman of the parking commission, said the site could be used for parking or could be sold to a developer, if one approached the commission. Coun. Stephen Chase, also a member of the parking commission, says the land should also allow more flexibility for any changes to the police-justice plan.

* As part of those purchases, the parking commission will definitely take down the buildings at 63-65 Carleton St., which were once lived in by John Rogerson, a world-famous wood sculptor, and Zebedee Gabel, a key Baptist leader in the 1800s.

Titus said the run-down buildings, which predate the Great Fire of 1877, can neither be saved nor used for alternative purposes. Chase said the only valuable piece in the building was a mantle over a fireplace, and the owner was allowed to keep it as part of the sale. Anything else salvageable will be given to Habitat for Humanity.

While these points seem certain, what promises to be the most controversial talking point remains to be decided: How many of the architecturally precious and historically rich buildings in the area can be saved?

Titus says he doesn't see any way for the police station to be built without tearing down at least some of the buildings. He said likely candidates were the 1938 home behind the arts centre, the auto maintenance centre on Union, and the 1903 Broderick building.

"Somewhere, somehow, (the police station is) going to go up here," he said. "Some buildings in this location have to come down. I don't know what's going to come down, but some things are going to come down."

Hooton talks of the possibility of using buildings for new purposes, or barring that, saving the facades of buildings that must be removed.

And Chase talks about the site as a jigsaw puzzle, with the pieces in this case heritage buildings, parking spaces and two incoming buildings.

"Can the building be turned sideways?" he said. "Can it be built up a storey so it doesn't have to be built out? Can a historic building be incorporated into a new building?"

McFarlane, meanwhile, considers all the discussion idle chatter until council accepts the public consultation process on Monday, then hears from the public.

"We don't want to make assumptions," he said.
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  #1668  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 8:43 PM
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Smile Wow

Uptown waterfront casino...*that's* the way it should be done, and while you could argue a casino/racino/etc could be placed in any number of cities in the province, there is no where else in NB that could offer that kind of view / location that a harbourfront establishment surrounded by nearby historic bulidings could....regardless of final size, this kind of high-profile investment would be a gigantic step forward in terms of developing the uptown....
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  #1669  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2 View Post
you probably wouldnt see this in the TJ for obvious reasons.

Lawsuit challenges Ottawa over Irving Oil refinery

Monday, January 14, 2008 | 3:05 PM AT
CBC News

Environmentalists are suing the federal government over a petroleum oil refinery proposed by Irving Oil Ltd. in Saint John, N.B., after alleging Ottawa ignored its own laws that require a full environmental impact assessment of the project.

It's expected the Federal Court will hear the case in mid-2008.

Yeah...I saw this a few days ago...interestingly, the proposed refinery for NL just passed another environmental impact assessment hurdle yesterday...be interesting to see how this kind of challenge affects these three projects...my guess is it wont go too far, but who knows...
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  #1670  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 9:09 PM
thefishingnut thefishingnut is offline
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Originally Posted by Seely32 View Post
* The city owns everything on the western block of the development except the small auto maintenance centre. On the eastern block, it owns two buildings on Union Street, the Jewish Historical Museum, and the Shaarei Zedek synagogue. It is in negotiations for everything else there.
Some progress here, I believe the last update they had not yet purchased the Museum or synagogue.
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  #1671  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kwajo View Post
Woah, woah, woah - are you saying that the insurmountable combination of a Racino next to the 3Mile would make us seem like a hick town? That's just crazy talk
hmmmm...i agree...now, if it was a combo racino / 3 mile / outdoor motocross track / monster truck venure THAT might be hickish
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  #1672  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2008, 11:43 PM
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Even though I have a strong dislike of the donald, and I actually beleive he is a terrible business man and trump entertainment simply bares his name. His holdings are less than 30% of the share because he went bankrupt about 15 years ago and never recovered. He at one point was over 3.5 billion in business debt and over 900 mil in personal debt. His personal wealth is nothing more than him being a giant publicity stunt and his buildings which pop up all around the world are far from oustanding actually most of them are rather bland.BUT It would be fun to see a trump tower and casino in saint john.

and thats all I have to say about that
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  #1673  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2008, 2:27 AM
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Trump is building a new tower in Toronto right now: http://www.trumptoronto.ca/splash/trumpto_splash.html

No doubt as the article states, his posse is merely travelling around entertaining of sorts of "what if" ideas and locations. I suspect Saint John popped up on the radar simply because we are one of the few metropolitan areas that are experiencing growth - even if that is only a few hotels and box stores. I highly doubt we will hear anymore about this however, I confess, it sure as heck is entertaining!
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  #1674  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2008, 3:55 AM
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Trump is building a new tower in Toronto right now: http://www.trumptoronto.ca/splash/trumpto_splash.html

No doubt as the article states, his posse is merely travelling around entertaining of sorts of "what if" ideas and locations. I suspect Saint John popped up on the radar simply because we are one of the few metropolitan areas that are experiencing growth - even if that is only a few hotels and box stores. I highly doubt we will hear anymore about this however, I confess, it sure as heck is entertaining!
There is also one in atlantic city going up, as well as Philly, dubai, and a couple other places currently.
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  #1675  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2008, 4:03 AM
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  #1676  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2008, 4:06 AM
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I also think this building is a plague on our waterfront and it needs to be completely redone or a company should reinvest tear down rebuild and hopefully higher.
http://www.uptownsj.com/pages/files/do-prwilliam.pdf


At least they are advertising this area I hope the keg likes what they see and can possibly attract more retail to this area.
http://www.uptownsj.com/pages/files/do-pugsley.pdf
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  #1677  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2008, 4:25 AM
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Nice listings! Moncton should take notice

I do wonder what they mean by "New Brunswicks largest urban center" because if they mean largest and most dense CBD then they are correct...however if they mean largest urban center by population (which is what I assume) they are incorrect as SJ has 91,000 urban population, Moncton has 97,000 urban population. Ill just pretend they mean largest and most dense CBD to avoid being annoyed.
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  #1678  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2008, 4:33 AM
michael_d40 michael_d40 is offline
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Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2 View Post
Nice listings! Moncton should take notice

I do wonder what they mean by "New Brunswicks largest urban center" because if they mean largest and most dense CBD then they are correct...however if they mean largest urban center by population (which is what I assume) they are incorrect as SJ has 91,000 urban population, Moncton has 97,000 urban population. Ill just pretend they mean largest and most dense CBD to avoid being annoyed.
You annoy me with your nitpicking
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  #1679  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2008, 4:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Seely32 View Post
I also think this building is a plague on our waterfront and it needs to be completely redone or a company should reinvest tear down rebuild and hopefully higher.
http://www.uptownsj.com/pages/files/do-prwilliam.pdf


At least they are advertising this area I hope the keg likes what they see and can possibly attract more retail to this area.
http://www.uptownsj.com/pages/files/do-pugsley.pdf
That must be old data, cause it calls the cruise ship terminal "proposed" and was under the impression the multil-level building in the first link is going to be leveled for the Rocca condo project.
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  #1680  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2008, 5:00 AM
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Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2 View Post
Nice listings! Moncton should take notice

I do wonder what they mean by "New Brunswicks largest urban center" because if they mean largest and most dense CBD then they are correct...however if they mean largest urban center by population (which is what I assume) they are incorrect as SJ has 91,000 urban population, Moncton has 97,000 urban population. Ill just pretend they mean largest and most dense CBD to avoid being annoyed.
I don't mean to be rude...but who gives a rats ass which city is bigger? When Moncton reaches 2 million in population, lets revisit this issue.

Here's a list for ya:

Moncton CMA 126,424 (29th)
Saint John CMA 122,389 (32nd)

Either way, don't let her laugh when you take your pants off....
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