The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Seely32]

Originally Posted by Phantomtib

"Canada will follow shorly after..."
This is what frightens me most. How will this affect real estate in saint john? Will housing prices become even cheaper?

On another note, what are the chances that Condos near the Aliant building (along Germain st) will go up for sale? Are there even condos nearby?

Condos on germain are hard to come by. Its probably the nicest street in the uptown area and has a lot of old money still living there. There was a proposed building there for a seven story building I believe and the heritage board and neighbors said no way. The location is a tough one because there is not alot wrong with the street and there still is a population who really wont look for a 2000 a month condo when they can get the same size apartment two streets up for 800 a month. If you do plan on investing in the area my best suggestion to you is that you keep the house you buy restored and not break it up into a ton of multiple apartments our history is what is most appealing for more expensive rentals.

In reply to economics in the US

The housing market situation in the US will generally only effect people who bought into the american dream. Large mcmansions with double and triple mortgages paying 500,000+ when there salary is about 80k a year. I grew up in the capital of suburban sprawl every county in new jersey is classified as urban. You litteraly coupld watch areas double their population in the course of ten years due to this developments it was sickening even as a child. The banks who were approving these loans and mortgages for people who had no or bad credit as leverage when trying to take on more loans then the particular bank could handle and then going to larger banks and asking them for assistance and that bank going higher. It was a trickle down effect when that one person could not pay his mortgage and the bank would lose their leverage and not be able to pay the bigger bank. So yes a major clusterfuck where a collpase was bound to happen.

[Seely32]

One more thing our housing market is not dependant on US investments. Its our job industry that reflects it more or less. If we have jobs which it seems we will soon more than ever then people will buy and probably outby so your investment may pay off for you but in the long run your investment holders may not be able to sustain that living unless the jobs are here to stay and there is some sort of rent control that stays reasonable with the market.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

I noticed today some signs up about blasting on City Road. It appears as if the apartment site on the street is seeing some prep work getting done.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by Phantomtib

A recession is hitting the USA. Do you guys think this will affect any of the proposed projects (in terms of Oil and Gas)? Will Canada have its own recession in a year? Comments?

Canada will certainly slow down, I don't think as much though. I think we're expanding our markets beyond the U.S., and with so much of the economy in energy, that segment won't be very much affected due to overseas growth.

I don't think a US recession will affect the major projects. They're all multi-year projects, by the time they'd be built the recession would likely be over. No point in waiting for the recession to be over before starting, because by the time it wasa operational you may very well be in the next recession. To build something like an oil refinery, you're probably using a very long period for expected operating life, and maybe planning on multiple recessions in the life of the facility. It's just like investing in stocks, there are highs and lows in the short term, its the long term view that matters (for those of us not retiring near term).

[Phantomtib]

As for projects slated to be completed, I’m putting together a spread sheet to analyze Saint John’s boom. Please tell me if my numbers and dates are correct. Am I missing anything?

Point Lepreau, Nuclear Power Plant ($1.4 Billion) 2010
Repsol Canaport LNG Terminal ($750 million) 2008
International Northeast Power Transmission Project ($155 million) 2012
Bangor East-West Highway and New Border Crossing ($250 million) 2012
Inner-Harbour Water Development Project ($250 million) 2010
Refinery Upgrades ($200 million per year) Ongoing
Pulp and Paper Upgrades ($75 million per year) Ongoing
Emera Brunswick Pipeline Project ($350 million) 2008
Harbour Clean-up ($90 million) waiting
2nd refinery for Irving Oil ($7 billion) 2013
2nd Lepreau Nuclear Reactor ($4 billion) Proposed
Downstream LNG Projects (Plastics, Petrochemical, Pharmaceutical or advanced manufacturing ($4 billion) Proposed

[Seely32]

-north of union developments(100 million)
-Irving wallboard factory just opened and its one of the largest of its kind in canada.(150 million I beleive)
-East point shopping area (indigo books,starbucks,montana's and more to come)
-Cruise ship welcome center which brings in close to 50 mil a year in tourism (2008?)
3 new hotels also coming to town.

[Seely32]

quick photo update

cruise ship welcome center??


Montana's



Best western- love the stone



Starbucks




Indigo



Courthouse and ymca




Water street-and princess st to be redone this summer



Beautiful



Long day

[SJTOKO]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

I noticed today some signs up about blasting on City Road. It appears as if the apartment site on the street is seeing some prep work getting done.

Great, is this going to be another poorly built development that will fall apart in a few years... If it's brick i'm happy, i'm all about the brick...

[Phantomtib]

nice pictures...

[PostModernPrometheus]

Thanks for the photo update
NIce to see things moving along on many fronts...

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by PersonPlaceorThing

I noticed today some signs up about blasting on City Road. It appears as if the apartment site on the street is seeing some prep work getting done.

Cool...anyone seen any designs for this project? I'm guessing that it will be something fairly reasonable...usually people who fork out the $ to buy land with buildings on it in order to tear the buildings down are at least somewhat serious about putting a more quality structure there....

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by thefishingnut

To build something like an oil refinery, you're probably using a very long period for expected operating life, and maybe planning on multiple recessions in the life of the facility. It's just like investing in stocks, there are highs and lows in the short term, its the long term view that matters (for those of us not retiring near term).

I dont know... there are some serious warning signs going on...i think that there are some serious hard times ahead for most people...3 days now of triple digit losses on TSX...everyone's jittery...this simply serves to hasten economic fear mongering...although i think the megaprojects will go ahead, i also think that we are going to see a recession the likes of which most of the under 40 population have never experienced before....

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by SJTOKO

Great, is this going to be another poorly built development that will fall apart in a few years... If it's brick i'm happy, i'm all about the brick...

LOL have some faith!

[SJTOKO]

Trump is here.... CHYEAH! And get a flight to the US already, come ON.. didn't we have a zillion boats going between Boston and New York at one time... BUN Ontario, BUN Quebec,, Maritimes and New England UNITE!

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by SJTOKO

Trump is here.... CHYEAH! And get a flight to the US already, come ON.. didn't we have a zillion boats going between Boston and New York at one time... BUN Ontario, BUN Quebec,, Maritimes and New England UNITE!

Could Donald Trump be proposing a casino?
Development Business mogul's reps visit Port City

Dave MacLean
Telegraph-Journal
Published Friday January 18th, 2008
Appeared on page A1
SAINT JOHN - One of the world's most flamboyant personalities could be joining the sweepstakes to acquire New Brunswick's first casino licence.

Representatives for Donald Trump, a prominent real estate developer, casino operator, author and television star, have visited Saint John for a first-hand look at the city's waterfront as a site for possible future development.

"We typically don't comment on any site visits we make," said Eric Hausler, senior vice-president of development for Trump Entertainment Resorts. "It's just a company policy. We look at a lot of places around the world and we typically don't comment unless we have something more comprehensive to say.

"Unless we have something more definitive to say, we won't have any comment on it."

While Hausler declined to discuss the nature of his company's interest, the Trump organization operates three casinos in Atlantic City, N.J., and is one of the most well-known real estate developers in the United States.

That combination would make it a perfect fit to operate the first casino in New Brunswick. The government of Premier Shawn Graham has issued a request for proposals for the development and operation of a casino. Proposals must be submitted by March 11 and the government has said it would announce the winning bidder by May 15. The province wants the casino to be open by May 1, 2010.

Known as 'The Donald', Trump has a fortune estimated by Forbes to be in the $3-billion range. Among other properties, Trump Entertainment operates the Trump Taj Mahal, Trump Plaza and Trump Marina casinos in Atlantic City.

In recent years, the New York entrepreneur has rekindled a celebrity lifestyle and become the host of the popular reality TV series The Apprentice, coining the catchphrase "You're Fired."

"They're known all over the world," uptown Saint John general manager Peter Asimakos said of the Trump group. "Maybe they think Saint John is going to be the next Dubai."

Asimakos said his organization has discussed the pros and cons of an uptown casino.

"We've talked about the idea of a casino coming to the city," said Asimakos. "We feel that if there was any place in Saint John, in fact in the province, that uptown Saint John should be a prime candidate. The province has stated they don't just want to absorb money from the local market, they want to attract tourists and people visiting for conventions, that sort of thing.

"A casino is not for everybody, but it's another component of the entertainment mix. Some of our members think it would be a good mix to the entertainment puzzle in the city and we feel we're a pretty logical choice in New Brunswick. This type of a facility could also leverage other potential projects for the city. The recent hotel and motel construction in the city is helping us reach the next level in the convention business. Other cities in the province are hoping to get to the level of convention business that we're at now, so it's time for us to look at getting to the next level of convention activity and a casino might help us get there.

"We're facing a lot of opportunities in Saint John and it's up to us to take advantage of some of them. We're not used to having this much development attention."

Meanwhile, the quest to acquire the first casino licence in the province's history continues and proposals are due in mid-March.

The deadline has already passed for proponents to make a $5,000 non-refundable payment to become a registered party.

While the first deadline has passed, a spokesman for the New Brunswick Lotteries Commission said the province won't be releasing the number of registered parties or where those parties are based.

"We can understand why there is an interest in it," said Marc Belliveau. "What I can tell you is that while a competitive procurement process is still alive and ongoing, it is standard policy for government to not share any information on the registered parties that are taking part in the process. On or after March 11, when the bids have closed, we will make public those parties which have submitted bids."

Belliveau said the initial response to the province's request for proposals was roughly what the lotteries commission had anticipated.

"The government is pleased with the initial interest in the process," he said. "It has met expectations and the parties who have shown interest reflect a great variety which includes local, national and international interests."

The lotteries commission members are the minister of finance (Victor Boudreau), the deputy minister of finance (John Mallory) and the deputy minister of public safety (Louise Lemon, the former deputy at public safety, though she recently moved to the supply and services department).

If the Trump organization does make a proposal, it would join the Exhibition Association of the City and County of Saint John as declared proponents from the Port City. The exhibition group announced last fall - before the province unveiled the long-awaited gaming strategy - that it was teaming up with Montreal-based Attractions Hippiques on a project that would see the construction of a new harness racing oval along with a hockey rink and soccer fields as complementary facilities to a casino.

At least two Moncton-area groups have proposed casino projects for that city.

Toronto's Verdiroc Development Corp. has teamed up with Moncton-based Ashford Investments and the partnership is looking at a downtown site, while CEI Investments of New Hampshire is said to be looking at two possible sites - Royal Oaks Estates and another site near Magnetic Hill.

Do it Donald. Do it.

[SJTOKO]

I'm not a fan of Casino's but Trump would do it RIGHT.. This would be HUGE for Saint John HUGE....

[Alberta Bound]

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

I dont know... there are some serious warning signs going on...i think that there are some serious hard times ahead for most people...3 days now of triple digit losses on TSX...everyone's jittery...this simply serves to hasten economic fear mongering...although i think the megaprojects will go ahead, i also think that we are going to see a recession the likes of which most of the under 40 population have never experienced before....

Given the strong performance of the Canadian economy thus far relative to the downturn in the US, I think we are positioned to cruise through this one as a minor bump. I wouldn't be so confident if I was in southern Ontario where some smaller cities are largely dependent on exports of consumer goods to the US but I think the east coast and some western provinces will do just fine.

[michael_d40]

Could Donald Trump be proposing a casino?
Development Business mogul's reps visit Port City

Dave MacLean
Telegraph-Journal
Published Friday January 18th, 2008
Appeared on page A1
SAINT JOHN - One of the world's most flamboyant personalities could be joining the sweepstakes to acquire New Brunswick's first casino licence.

Representatives for Donald Trump, a prominent real estate developer, casino operator, author and television star, have visited Saint John for a first-hand look at the city's waterfront as a site for possible future development.

"We typically don't comment on any site visits we make," said Eric Hausler, senior vice-president of development for Trump Entertainment Resorts. "It's just a company policy. We look at a lot of places around the world and we typically don't comment unless we have something more comprehensive to say.

"Unless we have something more definitive to say, we won't have any comment on it."

While Hausler declined to discuss the nature of his company's interest, the Trump organization operates three casinos in Atlantic City, N.J., and is one of the most well-known real estate developers in the United States.

That combination would make it a perfect fit to operate the first casino in New Brunswick. The government of Premier Shawn Graham has issued a request for proposals for the development and operation of a casino. Proposals must be submitted by March 11 and the government has said it would announce the winning bidder by May 15. The province wants the casino to be open by May 1, 2010.

Known as 'The Donald', Trump has a fortune estimated by Forbes to be in the $3-billion range. Among other properties, Trump Entertainment operates the Trump Taj Mahal, Trump Plaza and Trump Marina casinos in Atlantic City.

In recent years, the New York entrepreneur has rekindled a celebrity lifestyle and become the host of the popular reality TV series The Apprentice, coining the catchphrase "You're Fired."

"They're known all over the world," uptown Saint John general manager Peter Asimakos said of the Trump group. "Maybe they think Saint John is going to be the next Dubai."

Asimakos said his organization has discussed the pros and cons of an uptown casino.

"We've talked about the idea of a casino coming to the city," said Asimakos. "We feel that if there was any place in Saint John, in fact in the province, that uptown Saint John should be a prime candidate. The province has stated they don't just want to absorb money from the local market, they want to attract tourists and people visiting for conventions, that sort of thing.

"A casino is not for everybody, but it's another component of the entertainment mix. Some of our members think it would be a good mix to the entertainment puzzle in the city and we feel we're a pretty logical choice in New Brunswick. This type of a facility could also leverage other potential projects for the city. The recent hotel and motel construction in the city is helping us reach the next level in the convention business. Other cities in the province are hoping to get to the level of convention business that we're at now, so it's time for us to look at getting to the next level of convention activity and a casino might help us get there.

"We're facing a lot of opportunities in Saint John and it's up to us to take advantage of some of them. We're not used to having this much development attention."

Meanwhile, the quest to acquire the first casino licence in the province's history continues and proposals are due in mid-March.

The deadline has already passed for proponents to make a $5,000 non-refundable payment to become a registered party.

While the first deadline has passed, a spokesman for the New Brunswick Lotteries Commission said the province won't be releasing the number of registered parties or where those parties are based.

"We can understand why there is an interest in it," said Marc Belliveau. "What I can tell you is that while a competitive procurement process is still alive and ongoing, it is standard policy for government to not share any information on the registered parties that are taking part in the process. On or after March 11, when the bids have closed, we will make public those parties which have submitted bids."

Belliveau said the initial response to the province's request for proposals was roughly what the lotteries commission had anticipated.

"The government is pleased with the initial interest in the process," he said. "It has met expectations and the parties who have shown interest reflect a great variety which includes local, national and international interests."

The lotteries commission members are the minister of finance (Victor Boudreau), the deputy minister of finance (John Mallory) and the deputy minister of public safety (Louise Lemon, the former deputy at public safety, though she recently moved to the supply and services department).

If the Trump organization does make a proposal, it would join the Exhibition Association of the City and County of Saint John as declared proponents from the Port City. The exhibition group announced last fall - before the province unveiled the long-awaited gaming strategy - that it was teaming up with Montreal-based Attractions Hippiques on a project that would see the construction of a new harness racing oval along with a hockey rink and soccer fields as complementary facilities to a casino.

At least two Moncton-area groups have proposed casino projects for that city.

Toronto's Verdiroc Development Corp. has teamed up with Moncton-based Ashford Investments and the partnership is looking at a downtown site, while CEI Investments of New Hampshire is said to be looking at two possible sites - Royal Oaks Estates and another site near Magnetic Hill.


thats pretty intense!

[michael_d40]

Another little snippet regarding the casino

Saint John may "Trump" all other proposals for a casino

January 18, 2008 - 6:32 am
By: News 88-9 staff-Denise Miller


Saint John- The City of Saint John may have an ace in the hole when it comes to being the first New Brunswick city to get a casino, some may call it a trump card.

Representatives for real estate mogul Donald trump have been scoping out the Port City, specifically the Saint John waterfront, for some possible future development.

The stakes are high for the March 11 deadline for proposals, which the Graham government has said the winning proposal would be announced May 15.

The Telegraph Journal reports that Trumps senior Vice President of development Eric Hausler, was in the city but wouldn't confirm or deny the reason for their visit, but Trump happens to own and operate 3 casinos in Atlantic City.

If Trump does make a proposal to set up a casion in Saint John, he will join a proposal from the exhibition association, and at least two Moncton area groups have made proposals to open a casino in the Hub City.

[kwajo]

I'd get more excited about the possibility of a Trump casino Uptown, but knowing Saint John, I can see things playing out like this:

Trump puts forth an amazing proposal for a complete casino/hotel development on the Lantic Sugar site, putting it in direct competition with the Racino proposal. Then the decision-making process on who gets the casino license gets delayed by 3 months, at which point the province somehow declares the Racino proposal the winner. The Telegraph-Journal writes a big front-page article about how great this is for the city, and Norm chimes in with "This new Racino will continue the boom in the East side of Saint John and further our development towards being Atlantic Canada's Energy Hub."

Meanwhile... 3000 people move out of the city in the next 12 months because we've failed to do anything to entice them to stay.