The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread - Page 82

Seely32 · #**1621** Posted **Jan 15, 2008, 4:34 PM**

PropelSJ feels no deadline pressure on startups goal

DAVID SHIPLEY
Telegraph-Journal
Published Tuesday January 15th, 2008
Appeared on page B1
When the information technology industry group propelSJ set about launching 32 new companies in 32 months, they knew they'd set their sights on a lofty target.

Three years after the November 2004 launch of the program, propelSJ has seen 20 new IT firms start up or locate in Saint John.

However, they didn't hit their goal.

"So what?" asked propelSJ executive director Jeff Roach jokingly on Monday.

"It would have easy for us to say we're going to launch 15 companies in the next three years, yeah, well what community isn't," he said. "Thirty-two is a bold goal."

Roach said propelSJ still wants to hit its goal and is extending the deadline by a year.

"What we're doing is extending the deadline. Our rationale is if you look at our original plan for Launch32, it called for a [business] incubator [program] within a certain scheduled timeframe, and that timeframe was delayed for a year."

Roach said he's proud of the IT sector growth he's seen in Saint John so far.

The 20 new firms employ more than 200 professionals.

Two of the firms, Prop2Go and EMI, will be introduced to the local IT industry tonight during a propelSJ mixer.

Prop2Go is an online advertising service for real estate properties for sale, lease or rent. EMI is an IT consulting and service company for small- to medium-size firms that lack an IT department.

The 20 firms that either started in or located to Saint John during the Launch32 program's original deadline had a combined revenue in excess of $16.5 million, according to a December 2007 survey by propelSJ.

Roach said it's more important that Launch32 continue until it hits its goal than to have it stop when the deadline was reached.

"Bottom line, we're playing a volume game. The more companies we seed the more likely we're going to have some all-stars."

Roach said he's confident that propelSJ can hit the goal of 32 new companies in 2008.

"If you look at the trajectory of the rate of growth of [new IT] companies, it's really spiking," he said.

In 2004, three new firms joined the local IT sector. In 2005, the number grew to five new firms. In 2006, the growth slowed to three new firms.

However, in 2007, Launch32 hit a new high of nine new companies in the Saint John area.

With two new firms set to join the list today, that leaves propelSJ with just 12 more companies to go.

"Every year we've added more and more companies and we expect if we stay on track we're going to hit our 32 within this year," said Roach.

Sharon Irvine, who joined with her husband Rob in the Rothesay-based EMI consulting business, said Monday that she is pleased to be a part of the Launch32 initiative.

"We're happy to be part of showcasing Saint John's IT talent."

Helladog · #**1622** Posted **Jan 15, 2008, 6:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwajo

"Attractive new building?" If that is the benchmark for an attractive building these days, then I don't have much optimism for architecture in Saint John

I agree...it's only a minor step up from the Agar Place gov't building everyone knows and loves...but this is the Telegraph Journal's impression. Most of what comes out of that paper is a load of crap.

PostModernPrometheus · #**1623** Posted **Jan 15, 2008, 9:58 PM**

Hell yes, its all about location when people are paying triple that price for other waterfront locations across north america it looks like a steal. People are trending to move back into citie for jobs, work, and retirement and to live essentially within a 10 minute walk from all places uptown (nightlife,shopping,restaurants,and work) why not.

good point...i mean, when you think about it, there aren't that harbourside cities i can think of that have such room for development...in a way, it's sad that saint john is so lacking in this regard, but the upside is that there will be major skyline changes ahead in the next several years.

michael_d40 · #**1624** Posted **Jan 16, 2008, 3:49 PM**

[discussing Condo Deal For The Uptown]

04:51:23:

A Proposed Condo Development Bridging Water And Prince William Streets Is Running Into Opposition Over Restricted Views Of The Harbor. The Issue Was Raised As The City's Planning Advisory Committee Dealt With Required Rezoning For The Project Last Night -- Uptown Saint John General Manager Peter Asamakos Says It's An Issue Of Private Views Versus Public Views.

Developer John Rocca Says He's Made Every Effort To Protect The Views Of Neighbors More So Than Vehicle Or Walking Traffic -- the P-a-c Is Recommending Common Council Approve The Rezonings. council Will Deal With The Rezoning At Monday Night's Council Meeting.

[another Condo Deal Is Now Reality]

04:52:23:

another Proposed Condo Development Has Also Cleared The First Hurdle To Becoming Reality. Lambton Greens Inc Wants To Build Three Towers Over The Next Ten Years On Land At The End Of City Line And The Fort Dufferin Road Over West.

the Planning Advisory Committee Is Also Recommending Council Proceed With The Necessary Rezoning On Monday Night.

Phantomtib · #**1625** Posted **Jan 16, 2008, 7:26 PM**

Thanks for the welcome! I'm actually from Calgary and i'm looking to invest in Saint John. I've been reading this thread from top to bottom and I have to say that this group has a very positive outlook for their city. I hope I can attract more investors with me before the boom hits.

Water views would be awesome but would people rent a house for $2000 on Germain st? And do any of you have family or friends moving back from the West to Saint John looking for work?

PostModernPrometheus · #**1626** Posted **Jan 16, 2008, 9:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantomtib

Thanks for the welcome! I'm actually from Calgary and i'm looking to invest in Saint John. I've been reading this thread from top to bottom and I have to say that this group has a very positive outlook for their city. I hope I can attract more investors with me before the boom hits.

Water views would be awesome but would people rent a house for $2000 on Germain st? And do any of you have family or friends moving back from the West to Saint John looking for work?

couldn't agree with you more re: the growing positive sentiment around the city...this is new for us, and great to see.

there are indeed more and more investors flocking in, scooping up rental properties / condos, etc...

as for the 2000 question....there are waterview furnished accomodations in millidgeville going for 3000+/month....

PostModernPrometheus · #**1627** Posted **Jan 16, 2008, 9:22 PM**

Nice to see the condo update....the West side Project is REALLY exciting (BTW --> anyone have any update/photos on the 14-million $ west side condo / townhouse development??)

It's a *little* irritating to see the opposition to Rocca's project based on people's "harbour views"....I guess that if i were to buy property in a city CLOSE to the water, I'd do so with the understanding that sooner or later - like every other waterside city - development will occur near the water, and my view may suffer UNLESS i build high enough OR right on the water...I truly hope this resistence does NOT impede Rocca's plans - his renditions / drawings look, IMO not too shabby...

PostModernPrometheus · #**1628** Posted **Jan 16, 2008, 9:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seely32

PropelSJ feels no deadline pressure on startups goal

DAVID SHIPLEY
Telegraph-Journal
Published Tuesday January 15th, 2008
Appeared on page B1
When the information technology industry group propelSJ set about launching 32 new companies in 32 months, they knew they'd set their sights on a lofty target.

Three years after the November 2004 launch of the program, propelSJ has seen 20 new IT firms start up or locate in Saint John.

However, they didn't hit their goal.

"So what?" asked propelSJ executive director Jeff Roach jokingly on Monday.

*sic*

Roach said he's confident that propelSJ can hit the goal of 32 new companies in 2008.

"If you look at the trajectory of the rate of growth of [new IT] companies, it's really spiking," he said.

In 2004, three new firms joined the local IT sector. In 2005, the number grew to five new firms. In 2006, the growth slowed to three new firms.

However, in 2007, Launch32 hit a new high of nine new companies in the Saint John area.

With two new firms set to join the list today, that leaves propelSJ with just 12 more companies to go.

Hey....so what if 32 wasn't attained....the trend is positive, and the momentum is building....I've seen FAR too many ventures not even come close to their goals...PropelSJ is doing a fine job...they could have low balled it "We'll bring 10 companies in" but they didn't...they set an aggressive goal, and I admire that.

PostModernPrometheus · #**1629** Posted **Jan 16, 2008, 9:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helladog

I agree...it's only a minor step up from the Agar Place gov't building everyone knows and loves...but this is the Telegraph Journal's impression. Most of what comes out of that paper is a load of crap.

LOL...you mean TG puts a spin on things?!?!??!

Phantomtib · #**1630** Posted **Jan 16, 2008, 10:17 PM**

A recession is hitting the USA. Do you guys think this will affect any of the proposed projects (in terms of Oil and Gas)? Will Canada have its own recession in a year? Comments?

PostModernPrometheus · #**1631** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 12:43 AM**

I think that the warning signs in the US are clear....the sub prime housing market is burst, banks are foreclosing on mortgages left and right, oil/gas prices are going up, volatile stock market . . . an economic recession is on the way. . .canada will follow shortly after. . . as for new refineries - keep in mind that there is a huge crunch on refining capacity in north america, and there is profit to be made in increasing refinery capacity - the need for gasoline is not going away . . . any new refineries (i.e., Irving) would have to partner with large multinational oil & gas companies... i think that projects like this will proceed, even in the face of an economic slowdown.

Phantomtib · #**1632** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 12:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

I think that the warning signs in the US are clear....the sub prime housing market is burst, banks are foreclosing on martgages left and right, oil/gas prices are going up, volatile stock market . . . an economic recession is on the way. . .canada will follow shortly after. . . as for new refineries - keep in mind that there is a huge crunch on refining capacity in north america . . . any new refineries (i.e., Irving) would partner with large multinational oil & gas companies... i think that projects like this will proceed, even in the face of an economic slowdown.

"Canada will follow shorly after..."
This is what frightens me most. How will this affect real estate in saint john? Will housing prices become even cheaper?

On another note, what are the chances that Condos near the Aliant building (along Germain st) will go up for sale? Are there even condos nearby?

PostModernPrometheus · #**1633** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 1:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantomtib

"Canada will follow shorly after..."
This is what frightens me most. How will this affect real estate in saint john? Will housing prices become even cheaper?

On another note, what are the chances that Condos near the Aliant building (along Germain st) will go up for sale? Are there even condos nearby?

My guess is we'll see housing prices going up the next few years...if the 2nd refinery or 2nd nuclear reactor materializes, it will help buffer against economic woes...housing prices will come down at some point (or at least stop increasing at ridiculous rates)...hopefully, the housing market doesnt go bust ultimately....

as for condos on germain...seely32 or helladog probably be the best sources of info on that...

Helladog · #**1634** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 1:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantomtib

Thanks for the welcome! I'm actually from Calgary and i'm looking to invest in Saint John. I've been reading this thread from top to bottom and I have to say that this group has a very positive outlook for their city. I hope I can attract more investors with me before the boom hits.

Water views would be awesome but would people rent a house for $2000 on Germain st? And do any of you have family or friends moving back from the West to Saint John looking for work?

I can only speak for myself...I like living uptown and when I finish school and start working in the energy sector I'll be looking into condos in the area. I'm especially looking forward to seeing what comes out of the Hardman Group's redevelopment for the coast guard site. If it's a nice mid/hirise building on the waterfront, I'll likely be checking out the top floor...

Helladog · #**1635** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 1:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

Nice to see the condo update....the West side Project is REALLY exciting (BTW --> anyone have any update/photos on the 14-million $ west side condo / townhouse development??)

It's a *little* irritating to see the opposition to Rocca's project based on people's "harbour views"....I guess that if i were to buy property in a city CLOSE to the water, I'd do so with the understanding that sooner or later - like every other waterside city - development will occur near the water, and my view may suffer UNLESS i build high enough OR right on the water...I truly hope this resistence does NOT impede Rocca's plans - his renditions / drawings look, IMO not too shabby...

I agree...I used to live in Red Head, and one homeowner was not amused to have a new house blocking their view...so what they did was to build new and buy the property across the road to ensure that didn't happen again. If Rocca owns the property, they should be able to build high and wide. If some neighbour doen't like it, they should have bought the land when it was cheap.

Helladog · #**1636** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 1:53 AM**

The US is a major trading partner, but the SJ economy is diverse enough to get away from the bust. Plus energy is and will be for some time a needed commodity. To the best of my knowledge, SJ doesn't follow these sort of trends anyway.

In addition, I have heard only 62% of our exports head to the US now as opposed to 72% some years back.

When the markets elsewhere look grim, maybe (hopefully) investors will come here where the grass is greener.

Seely32 · #**1637** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 2:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

Nice to see the condo update....the West side Project is REALLY exciting (BTW --> anyone have any update/photos on the 14-million $ west side condo / townhouse development??)

It's a *little* irritating to see the opposition to Rocca's project based on people's "harbour views"....I guess that if i were to buy property in a city CLOSE to the water, I'd do so with the understanding that sooner or later - like every other waterside city - development will occur near the water, and my view may suffer UNLESS i build high enough OR right on the water...I truly hope this resistence does NOT impede Rocca's plans - his renditions / drawings look, IMO not too shabby...

The townhouses on lancaster which have an amazing view have hit a stand still there are about 4 frames up...I was talking to a couple people close to the project and supposedly there is some contamination in the ground. It supposed to be back up and running . There are also new townhomes going in on duke and gulford st west the were shot down about a year ago because people were afraid it would lower their property value but he cAme back with a new design and more homes and it went through suprisingly and there is one frame up there.

random11 · #**1638** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 3:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

Nice to see the condo update....the West side Project is REALLY exciting (BTW --> anyone have any update/photos on the 14-million $ west side condo / townhouse development??)

It's a *little* irritating to see the opposition to Rocca's project based on people's "harbour views"....I guess that if i were to buy property in a city CLOSE to the water, I'd do so with the understanding that sooner or later - like every other waterside city - development will occur near the water, and my view may suffer UNLESS i build high enough OR right on the water...I truly hope this resistence does NOT impede Rocca's plans - his renditions / drawings look, IMO not too shabby...

Do you have any renderings that you can share? I would be really interested to see Rocca's plans of this development piece. Thanks

random11 · #**1639** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 3:26 AM**

Bruce Bartlett
Telegraph-Journal

Appeared on page C3

SAINT JOHN - Real estate sales in Greater Saint John reached the $357 million mark in 2007, setting a new record and breaking through the $300-million mark in for the first time, according to figures released Monday by the Saint John Real Estate Board.

A total of 2,603 residential and commercial properties were sold through the board's Multiple Listing System (MLS), a 21.9 per cent increase over 2006, the previous record-setting year. "MLS statistics show what a dynamic market it was in 2007 in the Saint John area," said board president Mary Ann Ketchum.

"The months of June and August were particularly strong for MLS residential sales in all price ranges. The strong local economy and consumer confidence have been fueling sales, and the record sales activity shows it remains a very affordable real estate market."

There were 2,253 residential properties sold in 2007, also a record. That represents a 21.7 per cent increase in residential units sold compared to 2006. The value of residential sales in Saint John in 2007 also broke the $300 million mark for the first time, at $317 million.

Three factors appear to be contributing to the rise in the value of properties in the region, said Ketchum. Mortgage rates are relatively low, making payments affordable. The business and job markets are strong, so people can afford homes. Third there are people coming in from outside for the new jobs who are willing to pay higher prices.

"We don't have a huge inventory of houses, never have had, so supply and demand is driving the average price up," she said.

The average MLS residential property price in Saint John in 2007 was $140,554, also an annual record. This is up 9.6 per cent from the average MLS residential price of $128,202 in 2006. This reflects the average price of all residential properties sold through MLS in the Saint John area, including mobile homes.

The average price for single-family homes processed through the board's MLS system was $149,864 in 2007, also a record. The average price for all single-family, two-storey homes was above the average, while the average price for all bungalows was below the overall single family home average. By comparison, the average residential property price for all of New Brunswick was $136,603, also a record.

The average sales statistics are useful only for establishing trends over a period of time, and do not indicate an actual price for any home since there is such a wide selection of housing available in the area.

In other New Brunswick markets, 2007 was also a record year, although MLS sales slowed in the fourth quarter. The real estate market in Saint John ignored that trend and set quarterly total MLS sales records for the October-December period as well, although sales eased in December compared to 2006 totals.

There were 124 listings processed through the MLS system of the Saint John Real Estate Board in December, down 12 per cent compared to the total number of MLS sales reported in December 2006.

"There were a number of challenges in December, especially because of weather conditions," Ketchum said.

Those MLS sales had a total value of $18.1 million, up six per cent compared to the value of all MLS sales in December 2006.

The average residential price at the end of December was $135,393, up 6 per cent compared to the average price at the end of December 2006.

The major change in the Saint John market in December was the decline in the number of both new and active residential listings. There were 105 new residential MLS listings in December, down 13 per cent compared to the number of new listings handled in December a year ago.

There were 701 active residential MLS listings in the board's system at the end of December, down 21 per cent from the end of November and 18 per cent less than the number of active listings a year ago.

"This again reflects how dynamic our real estate market is," said Ketchum. "It's important that each buyer and seller work closely with his or her realtor to determine property values, or to find the right property at the right price."

random11 · #**1640** Posted **Jan 17, 2008, 3:29 AM**

Infrastructure Public will benefit from the millions invested in Rockwood Park by pipeline builders

Brunswick Pipeline president Robin McAdam looks at the proposed Lily Lake trail upgrade.

Bruce Bartlett
Telegraph-Journal

Appeared on page C4

SAINT JOHN - This year will see the start of improvements to the entrance to Rockwood Park and the area around Lily Lake, but the scope and speed of those projects will depend on how much the city agrees to pitch in.

The plan includes a Harbour Passage-style trail built around the lake by Brunswick Pipeline in return for the easement to bury a natural gas pipeline through 2.4 kilometres of park land.

The pipeline company, a subsidiary of Emera, promised to add trails to the park in return for the easement, but the exact nature of that work was only recently decided by a planning committee that included company staff, city representatives, the Saint John Horticultural Association, the Atlantic Coastal Action Program and a resident who lives near the park.

The proposed trail around Lily Lake is in the design and permit application phase now, said Susan Harris, spokeswoman for Brunswick Pipeline. "We need a watercourse and wetland alteration permit, so we have applied for that from the province," she said.

Brunswick Pipeline president Robin McAdam has said the choice of park improvement was up to the community, but the signage at an open house at Lily Lake Pavilion in October indicated the company favoured making the Lily Lake trail something special. Brunswick Pipeline originally said it would build a trail over the area where the pipeline is buried, but there appeared to be little public interest in walking along the right-of-way next to NB Power's transmission towers.

The scenic trail around Lily Lake will be graded to make it easy to navigate for everyone, including the disabled, said Tim Vickers, who is on the planning committee.

Approval is being sought to build a boardwalk style trail over areas of the lake bordered by steep cliffs. It will allow people to remain close to the water all the way around. The other areas, where an easily graded trail already exists, will be widened to three metres and paved.

Following the controversy raised by plans to bury 2.4 kilometres of the 145-km pipeline in Rockwood Park, the company promised to give $5.4 million, to be used for various park-related projects, to the city and the Saint John Horticultural Association, which both have responsibilities for the park.

The money includes a $2-million trust fund designed to be a source of income for the horticultural association, which is the steward of the park; $1.2 million for recreation infrastructure (half of which is going to the Canada Games Stadium refurbishment); and at least $1 million toward improving the entrance to the park and the rebuilt Lily Lake Pavilion, which now has its entrance below road level.

The 2008 city budget estimates the trail around the lake will cost $590,000 and lists $450,000 of that as coming from the pipeline company.

Brunswick Pipeline's park improvement money for 2008 accounts for about $2.5 million, and the city may pitch in $2.5 million of its own this year. City manager Terry Totten said the projects will move forward regardless, but he's recommending to common council that it pitch in to "really do it up right" and in a quicker time frame.

"There's a master plan, and it's roughly $8 million, and I had proposed to council that this is an opportunity, if you want to rebuild what I call 'The People's Park' we could do that," he said. "In the end, council said, 'No, we're not there yet. We want to hear from the horticultural association and people promoting that.' So what we have is essentially about $2.5 million provided by others that will be expended in the park."

Totten expects the proponents of the plan to come forward to explain themselves in the first quarter of the year. If council decides not to spend its matching $2.5 million this year, that money may go toward improvements to the Westfield Road instead.

Rockwood Park was created by an act of the provincial legislature in 1893, around the same time other great cities were setting aside land for public use, such as Central Park in New York. The legislation setting up Rockwood Park gave the right to "establish gardens, a park and (a) pleasure resort in the city" to the Saint John Horticultural Association. In 1967 the association and the city entered into a development agreement for the park but neither had the right to grant an easement for the pipeline through park land.

In May of this year the legislature passed a private member's bill giving the right jointly to the city and the Saint John Horticultural Association to grant an easement on any portion of the land for the purposes of constructing, maintaining and operating a natural gas pipeline.