$14 Billion For Transit

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by marmorek

No, it's an extension (SkyTrain).

it doesn't say that though - it says a New line from Broadway

Clark isn't mentioned ??

[Canadian Mind]

10 million by 2060? I'd venture to guess 6-8 million, but anything is possible I suppose.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

Can there be 9 cars in a Mark I train? I thought they too had to be pairs of two. And what about Mark II trains with a middle C car? What capacity would those trains have?

Also, why 110 Meter platforms instead of 120 Meter platforms (As I recall reading somewhere they were capable of being extended too?)

Mark I trains don't have to be in pairs of two, it's the Mark II's that need to be.

The Mark II middle C-cars should have approximately the same capacity as a A or B-car Mark II, which is 130 passengers.

I'm assuming it's a platform extension to 110-metres since they said 6-car Mark II. So, 6 x 18 metres = 108-metres.

I believe officedweller said the platforms were expandable to 8-car Mark I, which is 96 metres. For the $3.1 billion price tag they're putting on the Expo SkyTrain Line, which includes a 6-km extension, i'm guessing they're planning some very extensive modifications and expansions (perhaps even entire station renovations for every station?)....doubling the capacity from today's 16,000 pphpd to 30,000-35,000 pphpd.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by AKA-007

I had an abstract thought about 2020. I thought of 2 possible states of mind when we reach that end date for all of this. We could be using this utopia of expanded transit lines and be able to get everywhere in this city...or we could look at it and say "make more." If vancouver expands and densifies even more over the next 12 years, there will be an even greater demand on rapid transit. Will this result in us looking at these new rapid bus routes and thinking "that is a good place for a train." Or make new lines elsewhere in the LM.

one thing at a time. turning all those Express Buses into RT would be absurd at this point. I believe all this new transit will serve as a catalyst for a lot of densification throughout the region (provided no inane political bickering), but I certainly don't think we'll look back and say this is a bad decision. More along the lines of "time for a couple more lines..."

Edit:Or were you asking whether we think the bus routes will turn into RT, rather than saying they should be turned into RT right now? In readign your question again, I think I might have misinterpreted it.

bils, I don't quite understand your concern about too much for downtown. Really, the only new project is the Expo upgrade, and it's pretty obvious that its needed given how packed the trains are. The new SFU BRT is simply an upgrade of existing bus lines. I guess you could argue the Canada line is also a project, but again, this doesnt just serve downtown, and will be much more useful one it connects to the Mline at Cambie.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

it doesn't say that though - it says a New line from Broadway

Clark isn't mentioned ??

if you look carefully at the map the ministry has provided, it starts at VCC-Clarke Station. as well, the Premier and Falcon said it would be SkyTrain and bored underneath around Broadway. The actual route is still pending, but it is quite obvious that it "has to be SkyTrain", as Campbell and Falcon mentioned, and that it will start at VCC-Clarke. Construction could start as early as 2009, when the tunnel boring machine for the Canada Line is free.

The new SFU BRT is simply an upgrade of existing bus lines.

It's interesting to see how the ministry added the already long-planned Hastings/SFU B-Line and 41st Avenue/Joyce Station B-Line to their plan....nothing more than a reannouncement.

[bils]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

this is only the tip of the iceberg of whats needed

some predict in the next 50 years Vancouver could be home to 10 million

we'd have to grow at a rate of 3% for that to occur.... which is possible i suppose...

there's prolly an upper limit/saturation point for metro vancouver.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

this is only the tip of the iceberg of whats needed

some predict in the next 50 years Vancouver could be home to 10 million

God forbid. The world's, and hence the region's, population couldn't top out soon enough.

What are their population projections for the other major cities around the world by that time?

[Jared]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

It's interesting to see how the ministry added the already long-planned Hastings/SFU B-Line and 41st Avenue/Joyce Station B-Line to their plan....nothing more than a reannouncement.

...and the Canada Line! It's been u/c for over 3 years!

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

God forbid. The world's, and hence the region's, population couldn't top out soon enough.

What are their population projections for the other major cities around the world by that time?

by then, Hong Kong would've filled in Victoria Harbour until it was no more than a small stream that you could simply hop over to the other side....new population: 60 million.

[AKA-007]

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

10 million by 2060? I'd venture to guess 6-8 million, but anything is possible I suppose.

I guess if our population reaches that we may have that 80% transit ridership that that NDP transit critic was talking about. I won't be driving in that.

Originally Posted by Jared

one thing at a time. turning all those Express Buses into RT would be absurd at this point. I believe all this new transit will serve as a catalyst for a lot of densification throughout the region (provided no inane political bickering), but I certainly don't think we'll look back and say this is a bad decision. More along the lines of "time for a couple more lines..."

Edit:Or were you asking whether we think the bus routes will turn into RT, rather than saying they should be turned into RT right now? In readign your question again, I think I might have misinterpreted it.

I was thinking that, given time, these bus routes might turn into RT given densification. I'm not critisizing the current expansions. I think the're the best thing to come to the LM. I'm just thinking 30 or 40 years down the road.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

if you look carefully at the map the ministry has provided, it starts at VCC-Clarke Station. as well, the Premier and Falcon said it would be SkyTrain and bored underneath around Broadway. The actual route is still pending, but it is quite obvious that it "has to be SkyTrain", as Campbell and Falcon mentioned, and that it will start at VCC-Clarke. Construction could start as early as 2009, when the tunnel boring machine for the Canada Line is free.




It's interesting to see how the ministry added the already long-planned Hastings/SFU B-Line and 41st Avenue/Joyce Station B-Line to their plan....nothing more than a reannouncement.

i am just nerding out as it seems some in here are

some of y'all are going to minute details on a little info thats is all still speculative

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by AKA-007

I guess if our population reaches that we may have that 80% transit ridership that that NDP transit critic was talking about. I won't be driving in that.



I was thinking that, given time, these bus routes might turn into RT given densification. I'm not critisizing the current expansions. I think the're the best thing to come to the LM. I'm just thinking 30 or 40 years down the road.

Our region would need to be a lot more denser to achieve 80% ridership. We're talking about Hong Kong density....so, i'll say about 70 million people living in Metro Vancouver.

At 6-8 million people, you'll probably reach 30-35%.

[SpongeG]

i heard that number from some famous architect somewhere

he said Vancouver needs to prepare now and anticipate being a city of 30 million in the future - this was back in the 90's when he said it

and that he said Vancouver could easily become 8-10 million in the next 50 years

and as such we need to put in what is needed and prepare blah blah blah and stop thinkinf we are some little fishing village like some people want to think we are

[bils]

8-10M in 50 years would require a huge amount of single family housing in the region to be demolished and replaced with highrises (a la hong kong). i find it highly doubtful this will occur in 50 years.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by AKA-007

I guess if our population reaches that we may have that 80% transit ridership that that NDP transit critic was talking about. I won't be driving in that.



I was thinking that, given time, these bus routes might turn into RT given densification. I'm not critisizing the current expansions. I think the're the best thing to come to the LM. I'm just thinking 30 or 40 years down the road.

ah, gotcha. Yes, I assume they would be likely candidates. There's already BRT planned because demand is strong, and it makes sense to build where demand is strong.

It wont be long before our transit maps start looking like a plate of spaghetti

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i heard that number from some famous architect somewhere

he said Vancouver needs to prepare now and anticipate being a city of 30 million in the future - this was back in the 90's when he said it

and that he said Vancouver could easily become 8-10 million in the next 50 years

and as such we need to put in what is needed and prepare blah blah blah and stop thinkinf we are some little fishing village like some people want to think we are

Was he making those projections based on proportional growth over the last 50 years?

The world's population is expected to top out in the next 50 years. I guess there will still be a flood of people from the overpopulated regions of the world to the relatively sparse.

[David]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

It's interesting to see how the ministry added the already long-planned Hastings/SFU B-Line and 41st Avenue/Joyce Station B-Line to their plan....nothing more than a reannouncement.

Based on watching the BCTV news report, I think the plan for these 7 "RapidBus" routes include bus-only lanes, which greatly differentiates the plans from regular B-Lines and certainly warrants a "reannouncement"!!

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by bils

8-10M in 50 years would require a huge amount of single family housing in the region to be demolished and replaced with highrises (a la hong kong). i find it highly doubtful this will occur in 50 years.

that was part of the whole discussion

he said we need to stop spreading east making single family homes and start building highrises and dense town centers now and we should start now as if this population will occur

instead of hitting 30 -50 years in the future and being screwed with the small town thinking that goes on because he invisioned Vancouver ebing an important city in the future and in order to live up to that we need to start planning and doing today

he seemed to be - build it and they will come

[bils]

Originally Posted by Jared

It wont be long before our transit maps start looking like a plate of spaghetti

vancouver 2060, except replace japanese characters with chinese ones of course

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i heard that number from some famous architect somewhere

he said Vancouver needs to prepare now and anticipate being a city of 30 million in the future - this was back in the 90's when he said it

and that he said Vancouver could easily become 8-10 million in the next 50 years

and as such we need to put in what is needed and prepare blah blah blah and stop thinkinf we are some little fishing village like some people want to think we are

Hmmm....what we need is a communist crackdown of Hong Kong, and a Chinese invasion of Taiwan...maybe Japan as well! That should do it.