$14 Billion For Transit

[deasine]

Originally Posted by AKA-007

What that NDP transit critic failed to mention is that the overall population density in HK is far greater than metro vancouver. I guess if we had a population of 7 million we might have a system comparable to the MTR.

On another note, it would be nice if the North Shore got some rapid bus improvements. So far it looks like it's probably going to get some much needed new busses. The extra seabus was probably added into the $14b to make that number just that much larger. The new seabus could increase frequency, but not travel times.

Exactly my thoughts... I would like to see one from West Vancouver - North Vancouver - then perhaps to Burnaby. There are many bus routes to go from Northshore to Vancouver Downtown (and vice versa) but not many routes from Vancouver to the rest or the region.

[mr.x]

I'm wondering if the rapid bus platforms would be similar to what they have in Bogota. Platform doors (dreaming), with turnstiles:

[deasine]

I would want more... HAHA... I think we need to shine our BRT routes in Vancouver. Make the stations more like the... umm... Sea Island Centre Station with the platform doors =) That would look really nice around Lougheed Hwy - Hwy 1 corridor. And it can also act as the "rapid transit southeast corridor"

[alta-bc]

Here is a quick photoshopped 6-car MkII train...

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Overground

Curious too as to why they would show that route on their map. I guess it's probably to have a stop as close as possible to Guildford even though it's almost a mile away. Still odd even though it's conceptual.

theres probably more ridership just south of guildford than north of it?

there isn't much free route land near guildford that i can think off

[mr.x]

here's a pretty good graphic of what is being planned, from the Vancouver Sun:

[bils]

with the de-centralization of metro vancouver, do you guys think we should be putting less emphasis on moving people solely into the downtown core? the resulting vast majority of rapid transit in our region extends in a NW-SE direction.

has a SW marine drive route ever been explored? i'm thinking marine drive station (@ cambie) => new west... seems like that would add a beautiful connection from YVR to all points of the lower mainland.

[AKA-007]

6 car trains...lets see...

approx 120m? platforms accomodating 6 car MkII trains for Expo Line

VS

40m platforms accomodating "toy trains" for Canada Line

I'd like to see a capacity and length comparisson between Canada Line, Expo line and Expo line expanded trains just to see how many people we can cram into these trains when we have to.

Also, would we be able to fit 8 car MKI trains into these epanded stations? Or would that make the trains too large to handle?

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by bils

with the de-centralization of metro vancouver, do you guys think we should be putting less emphasis on moving people solely into the downtown core?

Are you talking about a Los Angelesization of Metro Van?

[bils]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

Are you talking about a Los Angelesization of Metro Van?

no i mean, with densification occurring not only downtown but also, if not mostly, in the burbs

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

hmm, for the Slurrey (:p) extension, it could run along 96th and then turn north towards Guilford once it passes that park. That would keep it near the more dense parts of Surrey and areas that can be really densified, rather than just sprawl along 104th. I also think it would be curious to see how they integrate the station with Guilford Mall, if they choose to go there. Would be kinda neat to have the station built into the mall.

At the same time, running along 96th they miss the giant Superstore, which while not that big of a deal, is still slightly saddening. I don't have a problem with big box stores as long as they are served by transit, this is a BIG big-box store, and as such should be served by large volume transit, in addition to the parking lot it has.

As for the UBC run, keep it underground until you get to the university.

104th is served pretty well by transit now

in a car from guildford to Surrey Central is less than 10 minutes - its not too far - so people can get to skytrain as it is now within a reasonable amount of time by existing busses along 104th

i think running along fraser is the best route with feeder busses to the stations

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by bils

with the de-centralization of metro vancouver, do you guys think we should be putting less emphasis on moving people solely into the downtown core? the resulting vast majority of rapid transit in our region extends in a NW-SE direction.

has a SW marine drive route ever been explored? i'm thinking marine drive station (@ cambie) => new west... seems like that would add a beautiful connection from YVR to all points of the lower mainland.

yesterday, when we knew about the long-awaited announcement was going to be today i was actually predicting a lot was being planned for the Fraser Valley. Sadly, that isn't happening...but what is being proposed is definitely welcomed and needed. Surrey and the Fraser Valley need more rapid transit rail (and the WCE needs a rehaul). so yea, i do agree that we should be focusing more on other areas rather than Downtown Vancouver...these Transit 2020 improvements should be the last of what the Downtown core will ever receive for a long time to come.

with regards to the SW marine drive route, i've always envisioned some sort of diesel service similar to the Bombardier Talent trains used in Ottawa's O-Train. Either that, an upgrade of the Arbutus streetcar to light rail and an extension of it to Marine Drive Station and to New Westminster SkyTrain Station via Marine Drive.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by AKA-007

6 car trains...lets see...

approx 120m? platforms accomodating 6 car MkII trains for Expo Line

VS

40m platforms accomodating "toy trains" for Canada Line

I'd like to see a capacity and length comparisson between Canada Line, Expo line and Expo line expanded trains just to see how many people we can cram into these trains when we have to.

Also, would we be able to fit 8 car MKI trains into these epanded stations? Or would that make the trains too large to handle?

Each Mark II car is 18-metres in length, so that should mean a 30-metre platform extension is being planned...up from today's 80-metres to about 110-metres. And yes, we would be able to fit 8-car Mark I's into these extended station platforms. In fact, you could fit one more car than that: 9-car Mark I.


1-car Mark I (12 metres): 80 passengers
(||||||||||||-

1-car Mark II (18 metres): 130 passengers:
(||||||||||||||||||-

1-car Canada Line (20.5 metres): 167 passengers (the recent 400 passenger train figure is bogus)
(||||||||||||||||||||-

----------------------------

6-car Mark I train (72-metres): 480 passengers
(||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||)

Future 9-car Mark I train (108-metres): 720 passengers
(||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||)

2-car Mark II train (36 metres): 260 passengers
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)

4-car Mark II train (72-metres): 520 passengers
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)=(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)

Future 6-car Mark II train (108-metres): 780 passengers
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)=(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)=(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)

1-car 2009 Canada Line (41-metres): 334 passengers
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)

Future Canada Line train with 10-metre middle C-car (51-metres): ~400 passengers
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

104th is served pretty well by transit now

in a car from guildford to Surrey Central is less than 10 minutes - its not too far - so people can get to skytrain as it is now within a reasonable amount of time by existing busses along 104th

i think running along fraser is the best route with feeder busses to the stations

I would have prefered it go south towards Newton, where it can reach out to both Cloverdale/Langley and S. Surrey/White Rock, and perhaps also one day hook up with a commuter rail line on the Souther Railway line.

What's more, it would help to redirect most of the S. Surrey/White Rock commuter buses towards Skytrain instead of the C-Line, considering the Skytrain is going to be doubled in capacity, whereas the C-Line is stuck with its 40m limits, and without having to squeeze though the bottleneck of the Deas Tunnel.

[AKA-007]

I had an abstract thought about 2020. I thought of 2 possible states of mind when we reach that end date for all of this. We could be using this utopia of expanded transit lines and be able to get everywhere in this city...or we could look at it and say "make more." If vancouver expands and densifies even more over the next 12 years, there will be an even greater demand on rapid transit. Will this result in us looking at these new rapid bus routes and thinking "that is a good place for a train." Or make new lines elsewhere in the LM.

[SpongeG]

$2.8 billion to build a new, 12 kilometre line from Broadway Station to University of British Columbia by 2020

so its not an m-line extension but a complete new line?

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

Each Mark II car is 18-metres in length, so that should mean a 30-metre platform extension is being planned...up from today's 80-metres to about 110-metres. And yes, we would be able to fit 8-car Mark I's into these extended station platforms. In fact, you could fit one more car than that: 9-car Mark I.


1-car Mark I (12 metres): 80 passengers
(||||||||||||-

1-car Mark II (18 metres): 130 passengers:
(||||||||||||||||||-

1-car Canada Line (20.5 metres): 167 passengers (the recent 400 passenger train figure is bogus)
(||||||||||||||||||||-

----------------------------

6-car Mark I train (72-metres): 480 passengers
(||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||)

Future 9-car Mark I train (108-metres): 720 passengers
(||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||-||||||||||||)

2-car Mark II train (36 metres): 260 passengers
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)

4-car Mark II train (72-metres): 520 passengers
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)=(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)

Future 6-car Mark II train (108-metres): 780 passengers
(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)=(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)=(||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||)

1-car 2009 Canada Line (41-metres): 334 passengers
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)

Future Canada Line train with 10-metre middle C-car (51-metres): ~400 passengers
(||||||||||||||||||||-||||||||||-||||||||||||||||||||)

Can there be 9 cars in a Mark I train? I thought they too had to be pairs of two. And what about Mark II trains with a middle C car? What capacity would those trains have?

Also, why 110 Meter platforms instead of 120 Meter platforms (As I recall reading somewhere they were capable of being extended too?)

[AKA-007]

thanks mr.x

[MistyMountainHop]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

so its not an m-line extension but a complete new line?

No, it's an extension (SkyTrain).

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by AKA-007

I had an abstract thought about 2020. I thought of 2 possible states of mind when we reach that end date for all of this. We could be using this utopia of expanded transit lines and be able to get everywhere in this city...or we could look at it and say "make more." If vancouver expands and densifies even more over the next 12 years, there will be an even greater demand on rapid transit. Will this result in us looking at these new rapid bus routes and thinking "that is a good place for a train." Or make new lines elsewhere in the LM.

this is only the tip of the iceberg of whats needed

some predict in the next 50 years Vancouver could be home to 10 million