Edmonton Public Transit

[Coldrsx]

[RicoLance21]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Probably in a few years from now, we can all come back and laugh at this silly map. WBRT-only bridge?

[Coldrsx]

those blue lines simply need to be red for this city to have a solidified LRT

[newfangled]

Originally Posted by RicoLance21

Probably in a few years from now, we can all come back and laugh at this map.

I'm already laughing at it - "Ha ha. WBRT is dead! Ah ha ha! "

How old is that though? The 87ave BRT goes back to the mid-90's. All the recent talk was about the SPR route.

I still think there's a use for BRT/Express buses, but they shouldn't be for the downtown. They would be good for AHD and the freeways, and to do point-to-points across town. But sending a bus into downtown rushhour congestion is useless.

[RicoLance21]

Should NWBRT and SEBRT still be considered? Both will never see an LRT track for perhaps at least 15 years. North along 97 Street can just have Route 134 replaced with an express bus route (with limited stops) to NAIT once NLRT reaches NAIT.

[Coldrsx]

^yes...but not brt, just an express articulated with fewer stops

[Mikemike]

Which is essentially what ST. Albert Transit runs now.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Mikemike

French (and other ) HSR often includes dual (or even triple) voltage operation, because it shares track with commuter type rail in the cities. I highly doubt that ETS LRT uses an unconventional gauge&profile. I recall ERRS's seimens streetcar has travelled on the LRT track and now uses the high level. I'll try to find some info.

Kyle, I understand that the City owns the highlevel bridge, so the city could stop HSR just as the province could stop LRT. There's always the constitutional possibilty that the province suspend the municipal gov't, but we'll see that when pigs fly.

The province owns the top deck, or at least the right of way, and with that comes the right to do as they see fit with it.

When Calgary bought the ETS AC U2s they needed new wheels, not because of gauge differences but at the time ETS did not have the requirement to travel at the grade the Calgary U2s did. With Health Sciences now open (6% grade in the approach) I imagine the requirements are fairly similar now.

Oh, and Coldrsx, do not underestimate the Stelmach's government need for a 'visionary' project. Remember, this project is not for Edmontonians (electorally - since the PCs don't think they can pick up seats in Edmonton), but for Calgarians (whom the PCs need to solidify as their 'base').

Don't underestimate the stupidity of the Stelmach government, they will push for full HSR in the next election.

[Mikemike]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

The province owns the top deck, or at least the right of way, and with that comes the right to do as they see fit with it.

When Calgary bought the ETS AC U2s they needed new wheels, not because of gauge differences but at the time ETS did not have the requirement to travel at the grade the Calgary U2s did. With Health Sciences now open (6% grade in the approach) I imagine the requirements are fairly similar now.

Oh, and Coldrsx, do not underestimate the Stelmach's government need for a 'visionary' project. Remember, this project is not for Edmontonians (electorally - since the PCs don't think they can pick up seats in Edmonton), but for Calgarians (whom the PCs need to solidify as their 'base').

Don't underestimate the stupidity of the Stelmach government, they will push for full HSR in the next election.

How many ETS U2's did CT buy? I'm wondering because we're finally buying more now. Shoulda kept'em. Oh well.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Mikemike

How many ETS U2's did CT buy? I'm wondering because we're finally buying more now. Shoulda kept'em. Oh well.

2. They were AC units. Calgary runs them now in mixed consists of 2 SD-160s and 1 U2 AC.

This is since our SD-160s are AC as well (like all SD-160s I think).

The rest of Calgary's fleet are DC U2s.

[CanadianCentaur]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

^yes...but not brt, just an express articulated with fewer stops

Yes, especially to NAIT.

We don't need BRT until we can get LRT. Like you said, an express route system with limited stops and articulated buses like Vancouver's B-Line would be better until LRT comes along.

The city needs more articulated buses, as some routes are incredibly packed these days, particularly during peak periods.

[CanadianCentaur]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

When Calgary bought the ETS AC U2s they needed new wheels, not because of gauge differences but at the time ETS did not have the requirement to travel at the grade the Calgary U2s did. With Health Sciences now open (6% grade in the approach) I imagine the requirements are fairly similar now.

When was it that Calgary bought up ETS's AC U2 LRVs? Remember that Calgary's LRT system was still expanding in the 1980s/early 1990s (?), as Edmonton's LRT system was more or less stalled. Which would've meant more ridership and thus more LRV's. I wonder that was also part of the reason, besides ETS's requirement at the time?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by CanadianCentaur

Yes, especially to NAIT.

We don't need BRT until we can get LRT. Like you said, an express route system with limited stops and articulated buses like Vancouver's B-Line would be better until LRT comes along.

The city needs more articulated buses, as some routes are incredibly packed these days, particularly during peak periods.

Thats what we call BRT in Calgary, helps to build traffic patterns before the line opens. Pretty basic, along one section shares the curb lane with car pools in rush hour, and they can hold green lights or speed the cycle to a new green light. Mondo cheap - I think it was 6 million for the current 'line' including new shelters, bigger bus bays, and the longer buses.

I am glad Edmonton finally decided to give up on BRT as conceived. Especially when so much more money is flowing in, why not build a serviceable system now!

So whats the next line after the Nait line to go in? Is there a line that would exit in the east of downtown as to allow the Nait line to not dead end in downtown?

A line in the general direction of Millwoods would balance out the system without requiring another line running through the downtown tunnel from the west.

Is there a chance the WLRT will not connect into the current SLRT extension and instead have a new line along (probably under) Stoney Plain Road? (with transfers at Grant Mac and Churchill to the other lines)

[Mikemike]

There is a chance that WLRT will not cross the river, but wil use 107ave (somehow). That was the original (60's) plan, but the City has been focusing on the 87th ave route as the only option lately.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by CanadianCentaur

When was it that Calgary bought up ETS's AC U2 LRVs? Remember that Calgary's LRT system was still expanding in the 1980s/early 1990s (?), as Edmonton's LRT system was more or less stalled. Which would've meant more ridership and thus more LRV's. I wonder that was also part of the reason, besides ETS's requirement at the time?

In 1988 Edmonton Transit took delivery of 2 U2 style LRV's. These cars however were powered by AC traction motors as opposed to the DC traction motors the first 37 U2's had, hence they were known as U2-AC's.

These cars were not actually purchased by Edmonton Transit, but rather by the government of Alberta. After running with Edmonton Transit until 1990, the cars went to Calgary for them to try out. Calgary ended up purchasing the cars and running them as their #3001 and 3002, until being renumbered to 2101 and 2102 in 1999.

[Source with some pictures]

Calgary commissioned the cars in September 1990.

A neat picture:

A mixed consist:

Both pictures from Here which also has a good section on the cars history.

[Mikemike]

Where is that Calgary U2 picture taken? I lived in a dead ringer for that Concrete apartment in edmonton (Le Jardin, at 98Ave& 110St.)

Interesting History.

[mersar]

that would be on 7th avenue, not sure what end though

[newfangled]

Originally Posted by Mikemike

There is a chance that WLRT will not cross the river, but wil use 107ave (somehow). That was the original (60's) plan, but the City has been focusing on the 87th ave route as the only option lately.

And yet for BRT they were going to use SPR (because their proposed 87ave route was killed by Crestwood and Laurier Heights).

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Mikemike

There is a chance that WLRT will not cross the river, but wil use 107ave (somehow). That was the original (60's) plan, but the City has been focusing on the 87th ave route as the only option lately.

107th would work as an alternative to running within the downtown tunnel I guess. It intersects near stadium and I guess near Grant Mac to connect with the other lines. Not the most elegant solution but it works.

But where does it 'go' to and from, just surveying on google maps it doesn't seem there are any 'places' along the line.

Running through the cemetery would cause a tiny hilarious controversy, when Calgary built the south line running under cemetery hill there was a bit of a ruckus.

What is Edmonton's load factor like in the rush hours?

[Mikemike]

Rush Hour Edmonton runs 3 or 4 car consists at 6 minute intervals, which is all that we can, allowing a few for maintenance. Peak loads are heavy, I don't know the numbers, but I'd guess that Normal would be 140-160people/car. If there's a delay and an extra-long interval between trains then I've seen people left on the platforms. I'd guess that would be about 200?

I usually travel slightly off peak, and I've tried to count standees, and 50-70 is normal between Stadium and Churchill at 7:20AM, so that's 120/car.