LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 3.0

[JDRCRASH]

I'm sorry, but I just recall in another article that the green line would connect with the Blue Line.

[ksep]

^ ??? the green line DOES connect with the blue line.

[JDRCRASH]

^ ^ ^

Seriously? I've never seen it.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

It's an extension of the Gold Line into East LA. There is no transfer at Union Station from the Pasadena Gold Line to the East LA Gold Line. How can you define a single line as 2 lines? It's a different destination, but not 2 lines.

Probably because of how the line will be used. Most East LA riders will transfer to the red line. They won't continue on to Pasadena. After the connector is built they'll split between the red line and Expo. The majority of Pasadena riders aren't going to continue on to East LA either.

[LAofAnaheim]

JDCrash --> please spend some time on www.mta.net to assimiliate yourself with L.A.'s public transit sytem.

Easy --> I suspect a lot of Pasadena riders will utilize the Little Tokyo station and walk up to the Civic Center bldgs. And, I believe a lot of people living in the Arts District/Little Tokyo will use the train to Chinatown & Old Town Pasadena. Yes, a lot of people will transfer at Union Station, but its still ONE LINE. It's like the Wilmington station. Yes, a ton of people transfer between Blue & Green...but in the long-run, the Blue LIne is ONE LINE and the Green Line is ONE LINE. What the MTA is dong is connecting 4 distinct destinations (Eastside, Pasadena, Westside, and Long Beach). Not 4 Lines, but 3 lines.

[ladowntowner]

IMHO the most intriguing opportunity that the DT Connector opens up is the ability to create a, say, Pasadena-Santa Monica route, an East L.A.-Long Beach Route, a Long Beach-Pasadena Route, etc, etc... In this way one would not have to step off a train and board another to get where they intended to go. This would be a huge convenience and potentially shorten overall trip time, But I imagine wait times for your particular route might be increased unless many more trains were added. This could also happen at the Blue/Green line intersection so that routes like Long Beach-El Segundo or Norwalk-Santa Monica were possible. Routes/schedules could be created based on ridership studies when the demand warranted them. Also, "express" trains could be created for heavily travelled point-to-point destinations as long as the express trains could by-pass slower "local" trains on strategically placed third rails.

Does anyone know if it would be eventually utilized in this manner, or if it will just extend the Blue/Expo lines into Union Station (or Little Tokyo/Arts Gold Line Station), thereby allowing riders to connect to the Gold line from the Expo/Blue lines (and vice versa) without a Red line transfer? The literature I've seen hasn't been detailed enough to make a certain determination of which way -at least not in my mind.

I can see a significant benefit even from the latter, but more so in the former if done right. My guess it will be the latter - as most urban transit systems work more like this, right?

[yeah215]

I think it is really important for the Blue line and Expo line to go all the way to Union Station when the connector is built. This would really help build Union Station is the focal point of the system. Second, it would allow for easy intermodal transfers. If somebody wanted to take Metrolink to their job near LA live, they should have to transfer to the gold-line or the red line, and then to the blue line to get to the Pico station. That would be really dumb and create a similar problem to what there is now. Union Station should really be the hub of the system. There needs to be a point where a lot of the lines, even parallel ones, come together. This helps transferring. Also, it would help breath life into that part of the city. I think that the Union Station, Chinatown, area would become even more appealing for residents and businesses if Union Station really became our equivalent to Penn Station.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

I'm sorry, but I just recall in another article that the green line would connect with the Blue Line.

Maps for the win.

[citywatch]

Since this thread is veering off about transit, & since there isn't any news about new projs underway or being proposed for DT, I'll insert a pic of very prominent apt towers in Chicago mentioned in DaveofCali's post in the city discussions forum.

Some LA forumers have complained about the design of new condo/apt projs in DTLA (like LA Central) with podiums that are nothing but big parking lots. And that such a design was very typical of LA. that's why I was surprised, even kind of shocked, to see the design of the Marina City towers in Chicago. Not only are they rising above multilevel parking lots, but, in some ways those parking areas are more conspicuous from the outside than the parking lot podium of a bldg like 1100 Wilshire.


1 of the 2 twin bldgs is shown on the right:


spudart at flickr.com

Multi level parking on display

[ladowntowner]

Agreed citywatch. That is off-topic AND the parking podium on the Chicago tower with cars VERY visible is hideous.

Actually I don't believe the transit issues being discussed here are off topic at all. The Regional Connector is a proposed "development" for Downtown that will GREATLY impact Downtown as it makes the light rail system a more viable alternative to the auto and strengthens Downtown's role as the regional public transit hub. Am I wrong to say much more significantly than almost any single residential tower or office building?

[ladowntowner]

yeah215,

I totally agree with you that the Regional Connector needs to go all the way to Union Station. Anything less would be massively inexcusable, incompetent and detrimental to the purpose of the Regional Connector in the first place. Anyone have confirmation that it would indeed be used to route Blue/Expo trains into Union Station rather than ending at Little Tokyo/Arts Station?

If those two line were to stop at Little Tokyo/Arts Station, it would be on par with spending $100's of millions to build a light rail line to within a mile or so of an extremely busy international airport, only to have it veer off in the opposite direction on approach. <---- So we do have a precedent for something really stupid to happen. What the hell were they thinking? Will it ever be corrected? Anyone know of any plans?

[Echo Park]

Originally Posted by ladowntowner

Am I wrong to say much more significantly than almost any single residential tower or office building?

Not at all. You are right on the money. These transit lines will facilitate the development of citywatch's precious luxury towers and the eradication of those dreaded parking lots that glower arrogantly at citywatch.

[Wright Concept]

Originally Posted by ladowntowner

yeah215,

I totally agree with you that the Regional Connector needs to go all the way to Union Station. Anything less would be massively inexcusable, incompetent and detrimental to the purpose of the Regional Connector in the first place.
Anyone have confirmation that it would indeed be used to route Blue/Expo trains into Union Station rather than ending at Little Tokyo/Arts Station?

If those two line were to stop at Little Tokyo/Arts Station, it would be on par with spending $100's of millions to build a light rail line to within a mile or so of an extremely busy international airport, only to have it veer off in the opposite direction on approach. <---- So we do have a precedent for something really stupid to happen. What the hell were they thinking? Will it ever be corrected? Anyone know of any plans?

NO, Trains aren't stopping anywhere, where the new construction may end will be around the vicinity of the new East LA Gold Line on Alameda between Aliso and 1st Street. They are going to continue through to either East LA or Pasadena/SG Valley. This one of the reasons LBU thinks of this line as two separate lines because of this fact.

On diagrams I included the Santa Monica, Foothill and Whittier LRT extensions to include what's currently on the horizon.

I must preface that this is merely a visual to help explain the possiblities rather than say that this is exactly what Metro will do.

TWO ROUTE OPTIONS WHEN CONNECTOR IS BUILT



THREE ROUTE OPTION WHEN CONNECTOR IS BUILT

[Sodha]

People at Union Station will not have to transfer at Little Tokyo/Arts District to go into downtown, b/c with the connector, all light rail trains will go to Pasadena, East LA, Santa Monica, and Long Beach.

To learn more of the downtown connector, and efficient advocacy in action, please refer to the Transit Coalition message boards. You will learn a lot of all the exciting transit proposals/ideas/developments, etc.. (http://transittalk.proboards37.com/index.cgi). It's free to read, but registration is needed for posting.

[JDRCRASH]

That 3-route option would be expensive, but boy, would it be effective!

But if there is any route thats needed, it's extending the red/purple or green line to Orange County.

And let's try not to get off-topic with Chicago.

[Easy]

I know that it's one line. Physically it's definitely one line, but the riding patterns will show otherwise. Given that the line names will likely be realigned when the connector is built I have no problem with people prematurely considering it two separate lines.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by ladowntowner

yeah215,

I totally agree with you that the Regional Connector needs to go all the way to Union Station. Anything less would be massively inexcusable, incompetent and detrimental to the purpose of the Regional Connector in the first place. Anyone have confirmation that it would indeed be used to route Blue/Expo trains into Union Station rather than ending at Little Tokyo/Arts Station?

If those two line were to stop at Little Tokyo/Arts Station, it would be on par with spending $100's of millions to build a light rail line to within a mile or so of an extremely busy international airport, only to have it veer off in the opposite direction on approach. <---- So we do have a precedent for something really stupid to happen. What the hell were they thinking? Will it ever be corrected? Anyone know of any plans?

Yeah trains WILL go to Union Station. That's the entire idea of the one seat ride. The connector only includes the route between 7th/metro and little tokyo because the tracks south of 7th/metro and north of Little Tokyo will already exist.

[ladowntowner]

Many thanks to PracticalVisionary for the maps above and Sodha for the link (which, btw, is broken - the ")" needs to be removed at the end of the address). Both are excellent resources!

JDRCRASH wrote:

But if there is any route thats needed, it's extending the red/purple or green line to Orange County.

Red/Purple to OC?!?!? It's a subway... do you realize how many billions of non-existent $$$ that would cost?? Or were you proposing to bring it above grade for the majority of the distance outside of central L.A.? Regardless, and don't forget we have Metrolink from many directions (including the southern end of the O.C.) into Union Station that allows for transfer to the Subway, plus any of the LTR's once (if?) the Regional Connector gets built.

Besides, the "Powers That Be" in the O.C. are very much public transit adverse, still favoring the expenditure (waste) of vast sums on highways (instead of any light rail at all), which are from a bygone era of cheap and plentiful oil. We'll likely never see a fully realized return on "investment" from these irresponsible expansion projects. I imagine there's also some (non-publicly discussed) fear (on their part) of their precious suburbs becoming more "urbanized" and a "mass invasion by the hordes" from the inner-city, seeing as though mobility from said locales would be easily facilitated by such projects. IOW - don't hold your breath - NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

[Wright Concept]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

That 3-route option would be expensive, but boy, would it be effective!

It wouldn't be that expensive since it is isolating the long 40+ mile Foothill Gold Line to Montclair and combine more frequent and 'shorter' length route of 20-25 miles in length.

And technically speaking not every train will go to Union Station, they'll probably split around the Little Tokyo area into either Union Station/Chinatown/Pasadena or towards Boyle Heights/East LA.

[yeah215]

Good. Glad to see it.