The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Ottawa]

I would cut McFarlane a bit of slack on this one. There appears to be some private interests looking at putting up a ton of cash for what might be a huge development. You can't tell me that the city is buying all these properties to build on, or put in inventory for an extended period of time.

These private interests might possibly opt out if too many details are thrown to the public too early because this causes their costs to go through the roof. And in the end, this would really cost taxpayers a lot more than they expected.

I'm sure there are properties left to be acquired and when the current owners find out they own property that a big development is proposed on, they are likely to set their asking prices at unrealistic levels. This kind of announcement made too early could hinder substantially, or even kill a good potential development. Negotiating from a weakened position like this(from the developer's viewpoint) can turn a perfectly good project into a dud.

I don't think anybody is going to make the same kind of mistake that was made on the old General Hospital site. And I don't see any other reason for McFarlane to keep details confidential. I think he likes to see people excited about what's going on in the city, but there is a process that needs to be followed. This just sounds like a complicated deal and McFarlane needs to keep all the cards close to his chest for now.

If this is done right, we'll see action on this site long before anything happens on the coast guard site....

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

I would cut McFarlane a bit of slack on this one. There appears to be some private interests looking at putting up a ton of cash for what might be a huge development. You can't tell me that the city is buying all these properties to build on, or put in inventory for an extended period of time.

These private interests might possibly opt out if too many details are thrown to the public too early because this causes their costs to go through the roof. And in the end, this would really cost taxpayers a lot more than they expected.

I'm sure there are properties left to be acquired and when the current owners find out they own property that a big development is proposed on, they are likely to set their asking prices at unrealistic levels. This kind of announcement made too early could hinder substantially, or even kill a good potential development. Negotiating from a weakened position like this(from the developer's viewpoint) can turn a perfectly good project into a dud.

I don't think anybody is going to make the same kind of mistake that was made on the old General Hospital site. And I don't see any other reason for McFarlane to keep details confidential. I think he likes to see people excited about what's going on in the city, but there is a process that needs to be followed. This just sounds like a complicated deal and McFarlane needs to keep all the cards close to his chest for now.

If this is done right, we'll see action on this site long before anything happens on the coast guard site....

Good post, and you are right, but I will add that one walks a fine lie between trust and public opacity. What I mean is that, while maybe it will work out better that things are not out in the public yet, it was precisely the lack of external input that has allowed numerous poor projects to have been built in the past.

In the end though, there is nothing we can directly do to change their mandate, so let's sit back and cross our fingers and hope that they really do have something wonderful in store (on this matter I am strangely optimistic).

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

These private interests might possibly opt out if too many details are thrown to the public too early because this causes their costs to go through the roof. And in the end, this would really cost taxpayers a lot more than they expected.

This reminds me of the argument Hardman uses in justifying its lack of action on the cost guard site: the land costs are too high putting the project in jeopardy. If a land budget is so tight that a few extra million can't be absorbed, then the project will likely fail when it hits any other snag such as losing potential tenants or having building costs go up.

[random11]

Originally Posted by Helladog

I notice that McVicar guy trying to get his name in the paper too...I wonder if he's going to go for the mayor's seat too?

Bob is tired of selling real estate. Of course he will run again.

[random11]

[QUOTE=michael_d40;3173656]Preliminary Police headquarters conceptual drawings.......





It's hard to see the project drawings but at least it's something. Hopefully, we can get a better view soon. Looks like a 5 or 6 story building from what I can see.

[kwajo]

Developer and mayor like plan
Marsh Creek East Point builder anxious to be partner in proposal to improve drainage basin
John Mazerolle
Telegraph-Journal
SAINT JOHN - The plan to revitalize Marsh Creek by partnering with companies that need to offset damage their developments do to the environment already has two high-profile friends: Mayor Norm McFarlane and retail developer Troy Northrup.

Both say they are deeply impressed by the plan.

"I'd like to be a full partner in this," said Northrup, who is developing up to 80 acres at the East Point Shopping complex.

Tim Vickers, executive director of the Atlantic Coastal Action Program, has been unveiling the plan to various people in the community, and shared it with the Telegraph-Journal late last week. In ACAP's proposed vision, developers that must compensate government for flooding, fish habitat, or wetlands damage will do so in the Marsh Creek drainage basin, a 42-square kilometre area that includes much of the East Side including Rockwood Park and the East Side shopping district.

A wider, deeper Marsh Creek created by developers would result in expanded wetlands and reduced East Side flooding. Further, the plan would make development easier on industrial or commercial companies because they would know exactly what they need to do from the beginning of their building process.

Northrup said ACAP had shown a great balanced approach that took into account everybody. It affects people positively today and will affect people positively in the future, he said.

"We have a significant amount of investment on lowlands and I think this is a great program."

Northrup has already worked to lessen the environmental impact of the East Point development; its design incorporated a storm-water management plan and includes a reservoir underneath the complex that is meant to handle a five-year peak rain.

McFarlane, meanwhile, says the province's strict rules about replacing wetlands means the ACAP plan has arrived at the right time.

The provincial rules "are going to be more difficult in Saint John because everything in Saint John is wetlands or it's rock," he said.

The city's compensatory flood storage - essentially big holes the city digs to offset East Side flooding - is all but used. Chief building inspector Bill Edwards warned common council a year ago that new solutions would have to be found to offset flooding, and McFarlane said the city has considered buying land near Marsh Creek to deepen the waterway.

"It's the only place left (in East Saint John) to do that," he said. "I know the city would be very happy to do any work down there."

Jennifer Parker, spokeswoman for Irving Oil, said the company has had discussions with ACAP about the proposed second refinery as part of its outreach to a number of community groups. She noted that no exact site for the refinery has been chosen, nor has the project been approved.

Irving Oil has worked with ACAP to create wetlands before, doing work at a Ducks Unlimited site in Red Head to offset work at the Canaport LNG site.

"It sounds like a very interesting project," she said.

Maybe the fact that he likes my MCRI ideas will redeem Northrup in my eyes after his 24/7 spotlight faux-pas

[Ottawa]

[QUOTE=random11;3176432]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Preliminary Police headquarters conceptual drawings.......





It's hard to see the project drawings but at least it's something. Hopefully, we can get a better view soon. Looks like a 5 or 6 story building from what I can see.

Kwajo, you might want to resurrect your Irving HQ thread. I don't remember if you had any of this property selected on your map, but I think there's a possibility here, although I'm sure they would want to duck the negative media around this right now.

[PostModernPrometheus]

Anybody know what's going on just off somerset st. at wellsley (sp??)....that whole block extending down towards the dairy queen is cleared and staked...looks like some heavy equipment is also on site....i drove by tonight...didnt see any signage up as to what is being placed here, but it's a fair sized chunk of land....

[PostModernPrometheus]

Also took a walk through the next phase of the cedar point development ..... lots of progress here in a short period of time...looks like at least two main roads will be going into the subdivision....

[PostModernPrometheus]

Finally....there is something going on just off of Millidge Ave...on Manor Sutton (sp?)...there's been a large vacant lot there for years just in behind the RKYC boat storage lot.... drove past there earlier today, and there's heavy machinery levelling the lot....i hadnt heard anything about this site being developed....anyone know what's going on there?

[Helladog]

Phone pix of New Apts off Technology Drive:







New Apts off Somerset (under construction - from road):

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

Anybody know what's going on just off somerset st. at wellsley (sp??)....that whole block extending down towards the dairy queen is cleared and staked...looks like some heavy equipment is also on site....i drove by tonight...didnt see any signage up as to what is being placed here, but it's a fair sized chunk of land....

Not sure, but I always thought it was an ideal spot for an apt building. It's been vacant since Greco moved and the Irving station was removed.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by PostModernPrometheus

Anybody know what's going on just off somerset st. at wellsley (sp??)....that whole block extending down towards the dairy queen is cleared and staked...looks like some heavy equipment is also on site....i drove by tonight...didnt see any signage up as to what is being placed here, but it's a fair sized chunk of land....

I think it's going to be something like the Exit Realty building farther up Somerset.

[Seely32]

A new face on the uptown


John Mazerolle
Telegraph-Journal
Published Tuesday November 20th, 2007
Appeared on page C3
SAINT JOHN - When it comes to buildings, judging a book by its cover is perfectly acceptable. Dick Daigle and Peter Asimakos say attractive facades on uptown buildings lead to a better city image and more community pride.

So the two leaders of Uptown Saint John Inc. are hoping common council will help with an incentive program for owners who want to spruce up the outside of certain uptown buildings.

"The results of this are going to be increased property assessments and benefits to the city as a whole," said Asimakos, the economic development group's general manager. He and president Dick Daigle said during an interview that facades are one part of Uptown Saint John's larger plan that includes infill incentives, upper floor incentives, and a land use plan for the entire core. Daigle spoke with council about the vision during a recent presentation.

Asimakos said that an incentive program, funded jointly by the city and Uptown Saint John, could help property owners with signage, awnings, landscaping, underground wiring, and general facade work. The project would affect those buildings that are in the uptown's business improvement area but are not in the heritage district, which already has incentive programs for exterior work.

The focus would be on the area north of King Street, including many buildings on Union Street.

The city has plenty of examples of other incentive programs to work from: Besides the incentives available to heritage buildings, there was a federal-provincial incentive program in the 1980s, and Downtown Fredericton Inc. has an ongoing financial assistance program.

In Fredericton, owners are eligible for 40 per cent of the costs of construction, underground wiring, and consultation, up to $2,000 per facade, maximum two facades per building. Asimakos said the program pays out between $25,000 to $30,000 a year, with each dollar spent resulting in about four dollars of investment in the projects.

Asimakos imagines that the city might pay between one-third and two-thirds of the total cost, with Uptown Saint John Inc. as the stewards of the program.

Said Daigle: "It's pretty simple, and it's one plank of a larger plan."

Asimakos said it's one more way to attract people to the central core, which Uptown Saint John argues is vital for uptown development. He points to a recent proposal by a developer who would like to build as many as 600 condominium units on the West Side waterfront. If all the residential units are built elsewhere, then the central core risks becoming a "repository for poor people" where the cycle of poverty can't be broken.

If the city does want to attract residents and build units uptown, "we have to get on it before units are absorbed at other locations throughout the city," Asimakos said.

[Seely32]

Originally Posted by Seely32

A new face on the uptown
Asimakos said it's one more way to attract people to the central core, which Uptown Saint John argues is vital for uptown development. He points to a recent proposal by a developer who would like to build as many as 600 condominium units on the West Side waterfront. If all the residential units are built elsewhere, then the central core risks becoming a "repository for poor people" where the cycle of poverty can't be broken.

If the city does want to attract residents and build units uptown, "we have to get on it before units are absorbed at other locations throughout the city," Asimakos said.

I couldnt agree more let's get some more iniative and turn some of these old office buildings into lofts and apartments and not cut the landlords so much slack.

[Seely32]

Today is also the 1 year anniversary of this thread opening. Pretty proud of all of us for a small city we have 11 or 12 day to day contributors here and another 6 or 7 weekly and all with valued opinions. Lets keep it up with another year and see if we can get some more minds in here.

[Ronald Jack]

Originally Posted by Seely32

Today is also the 1 year anniversary of this thread opening. Pretty proud of all of us for a small city we have 11 or 12 day to day contributors here and another 6 or 7 weekly and all with valued opinions.

Yes , I agree that this is a useful forum, especially for those of us among the Saint John diaspora scattered all over North America. It is the very reason I maintain a Link to this site on my new Saint John history Blog.
One thing troubles me though. Why the over-reliance on scraping articles from The Telegraph Journal. What appears in newspapers is largely promotional stories, and developers love it when the public turns their press releases into street level "buzz". How come a few keeners in this Forum don't attend S.J. City Council meetings when Zoning and big projects are on the agenda, and help themselves to piles of site plans and construction elevations which are free for the picking? That's what we do out here on the left coast.
and here's to your second year!

Oh yes, and an afterthought... I have also Linked to the
CBC webcam in the Lost Valley. Does anyone know of a private webcam that may be pointed at the harbour?

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by Ronald Jack

Yes , I agree that this is a useful forum, especially for those of us among the Saint John diaspora scattered all over North America. It is the very reason I maintain a Link to this site on my new Saint John history Blog.
One thing troubles me though. Why the over-reliance on scraping articles from The Telegraph Journal. What appears in newspapers is largely promotional stories, and developers love it when the public turns their press releases into street level "buzz". How come a few keeners in this Forum don't attend S.J. City Council meetings when Zoning and big projects are on the agenda, and help themselves to piles of site plans and construction elevations which are free for the picking? That's what we do out here on the left coast.
and here's to your second year!

Oh yes, and an afterthought... I have also Linked to the
CBC webcam in the Lost Valley. Does anyone know of a private webcam that may be pointed at the harbour?

Good point, I watch council meetings on local TV sometimes, but unfortunately, my school schedule has be bound to class during the day when they have public meetings, and studying at night when they hold council meetings.

True tho, alot of what you see in the paper is just promo, but interesting anyway.

I'm aware of the CBC web-cam, but I'm not aware of any other local cams on the harbour...I think the Harbour Bridge has a couple of web-cams...

Try this... http://www.saintjohnharbourbridge.com/traffic_updates.htm

[Seely32]

Originally Posted by Ronald Jack

Yes , I agree that this is a useful forum, especially for those of us among the Saint John diaspora scattered all over North America. It is the very reason I maintain a Link to this site on my new Saint John history Blog.
One thing troubles me though. Why the over-reliance on scraping articles from The Telegraph Journal. What appears in newspapers is largely promotional stories, and developers love it when the public turns their press releases into street level "buzz". How come a few keeners in this Forum don't attend S.J. City Council meetings when Zoning and big projects are on the agenda, and help themselves to piles of site plans and construction elevations which are free for the picking? That's what we do out here on the left coast.
and here's to your second year!

Oh yes, and an afterthought... I have also Linked to the
CBC webcam in the Lost Valley. Does anyone know of a private webcam that may be pointed at the harbour?

School and working full time limits my presence at these meetings. I do read the minutes and agendas which is about as close as I can get. Promo can stir discussion and as a smart development and restoration enthuasist it provides me with what I can't get at city council as biast as it may be.

[Seely32]

- For Immediate Release -
New Police and Justice Facilitate to revitalize Saint John’s Uptown Core
Initial concepts include public space featuring works of art, and enhanced Arts Centre
Saint John, New Brunswick – The City of Saint John will have a new Police Facility by 2010 or before. The Facility will be part of a Police development that will include further development opportunities and reinvigorate the City’s Uptown area.
The new facility has the potential to encompass public space, new parking facilities, commercial development and a revitalized Arts Centre. The project will be shaped in coming months through community consultations.
“The City has a vision for this project that goes beyond simple bricks and mortar. This project is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for the City to reinvigorate the Uptown core,” says Mayor Norm McFarlane.
“We’ve known for years that a new Police facility was urgently needed. Once we had completed our needs assessment, and initial community consultations the message was clear: the Uptown area was the ideal location for this development,” says Chair of the Saint John Police Commission, Andrew Britton.
Preliminary plans for the facility were unveiled by City Planning and Development Commissioner Jim Baird on Friday morning in the City’s Red Room. A group of community stakeholders were present to learn more about the facility.
“These concepts are very preliminary. In the coming months we will engage in public consultation, and be in a better position to talk to these designs. For now, we wanted to share with the citizens of Saint John an idea of the scope and the potential for this project,” says Baird.
“In the coming months we will be sharing these concepts with the public in a series of community consultations that will ensure that this development reflects the vision of the citizens of Saint John,” says Baird.
As early as 1985, current police facilities were considered to be inadequate for current needs. In 2004, the newly elected Council named the need for new police facilities as its number two priority (the first priority was Harbour Clean-up).
The council toured a number of potential locations for this development, and in 2005, the Deputy Police Chief and City Manager met with the Board of Trade, Enterprise Saint John and Uptown Saint John to brief them on the project.
“The message at that meeting was very clear,” says Saint John Police Chief Al Bodechon. “The group wanted an Uptown location, and something that was more than ‘just’ a police station. They wanted something that would have an opportunity for private sector investment and that would preserve the City’s green space. We’re pleased that this development reflects those community priorities.”
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