CHICAGO | Boom rundown - everything over 12 floors. v5 - Page 197

SamInTheLoop · #**3921** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 1:44 AM**

Newcityskyline.com has an article today about this JDL apartment project that just passed Plan Commission. I was surprised and disappointed to read that this POS is a product of Hartshorne + Plunkard. The majority of their recent stuff has been pretty strong in my opinion, and then this comes along - I guess most produce a dud now and then.

I want to see some more well-designed rental towers make it through planning soon - there's such a strong market right now for apartments, and it seems like almost ever since our two new downtown aldermen took their helms, we've really had a series of quite weak Plan Commission agendas....are these two kings of their little hills going out of the way to show developers who's boss and making them jump through too many hoops, present 1 or 2 dozen too many times to neighborhood NIMBY groups, etc?? There's definitely been a slowdown through Plan Commission, and it's not for a lack of quality proposals out there - don't forget that while the condo market has obviously slowed, apartments and hotels are sizzling. For example - what has happened with VDT-designed 161 W. Kinzie? Why does it keep getting pulled from its day in the spotlight? Is Reilly insisting on something unreasonable from the developers? Makes me wonder...

Loopy · #**3922** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 1:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

-Finally, what is the deal with the foundation work at One Museum Park West? It's taking them way too long to wrap up the caissons (much like 353 Clark earlier this year) I know - it's a difficult site, there's unexpected tunnels, etc etc etc.... I think someone on this board previously said something like it would be easier to just excavate the entire footprint of the building down to bedrock and fill the entire hole with concrete for the world's largest ever single caisson, and frankly I'm beginning to agree!...

They're building a secant wall and five levels of underground parking in a top-down fashion. It is going to be December before the building starts to come out of the ground, according to the developer.

VivaLFuego · #**3923** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 1:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Can you cite any example where the city has ever backed down? The Law Dept didn't back down on the New York, nor on 1360 N Lake Shore. They fought to the death for whatever the city council had passed.

Right. Governments have a much different set of incentives than businesses when it comes to lawsuits. F&G will sue, but it doesn't mean this won't drag on for quite a while.

VivaLFuego · #**3924** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 1:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Newcityskyline.com has an article today about this JDL apartment project that just passed Plan Commission. I was surprised and disappointed to read that this POS is a product of Hartshorne + Plunkard. The majority of their recent stuff has been pretty strong in my opinion, and then this comes along - I guess most produce a dud now and then.

I want to see some more well-designed rental towers make it through planning soon - there's such a strong market right now for apartments, and it seems like almost ever since our two new downtown aldermen took their helms, we've really had a series of quite weak Plan Commission agendas....are these two kings of their little hills going out of the way to show developers who's boss and making them jump through too many hoops, present 1 or 2 dozen too many times to neighborhood NIMBY groups, etc?? There's definitely been a slowdown through Plan Commission, and it's not for a lack of quality proposals out there - don't forget that while the condo market has obviously slowed, apartments and hotels are sizzling. For example - what has happened with VDT-designed 161 W. Kinzie? Why does it keep getting pulled from its day in the spotlight? Is Reilly insisting on something unreasonable from the developers? Makes me wonder...

There are ALOT of downtown rental units U/C, approved, and in the works....it's not self-evident that they will be easily absorbed, let alone additional projects. And that's not to mention all of the condo units in buildings U/C and recently finished that were purchased by investors who will seek to rent them out.

Hotels on the other hand....that markets still hot, apparently.

Mr Downtown · #**3925** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 2:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

are these two kings of their little hills going out of the way to show developers who's boss and making them jump through too many hoops, present 1 or 2 dozen too many times to neighborhood NIMBY groups, etc??

I am not aware of any presentations to any neighborhood or "community" groups in the Second Ward since the election.

SamInTheLoop · #**3926** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 2:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

There are ALOT of downtown rental units U/C, approved, and in the works....it's not self-evident that they will be easily absorbed, let alone additional projects. And that's not to mention all of the condo units in buildings U/C and recently finished that were purchased by investors who will seek to rent them out.

Hotels on the other hand....that markets still hot, apparently.

Actually - I disagree. I'll preface by saying that the unknown quantity out there is indeed the shadow market - condos that are being rented by the owners. However, in terms of number of new rental apartment units that are under construction, or under construction and fully-entitled (I'm sure I know 90% of these projects), I think it pales in comparison to what has been removed from the market in recent years due to condo conversion in addition to the current and forecasted demand for rental units over the next few years.... I think demand is stronger than even a lot of the bullish apartment developers realize, and will get stronger still as young professionals will be staying renters longer now that they are no longer giving mortgages away, and affordability conditions are shall we say less than pristine....think about it this way - do you realize what an explosion of demand for apartment units would develop if the home ownership rate in this country (fill in any other geography including downtown chicago you would like here) fell just 200 basis points (which a lot of people, myself included, think quite realistic)? It would be a deluge, a tidal wave, a monsoon, a (allright now I'm just getting silly).....Anyway, I take your point - nothing is self-evident in fact - but I would argue the downtown apartment market has as good or even perhaps better prospects than the hotel market....

ardecila · #**3927** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 2:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Seen the other day in Bidclerk.com - boutique hotel on 11,700 sf site. Est. start Oct. 2008

Not sure what project, but if I had to guess I would go for the South Loop Aloft project from ECD - I think they call it "Aloft Millennium Park"

anyone have other guesses??...

That project is ridiculous. Check ECD's website - they foresee a March 2008 groundbreaking, and a finish date of August 2008. It can't be a typo because it says "August of that year". But tell me, how can they build an 18-story building, from foundation to roof, in 6 months?

SamInTheLoop · #**3928** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 3:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila

That project is ridiculous. Check ECD's website - they foresee a March 2008 groundbreaking, and a finish date of August 2008. It can't be a typo because it says "August of that year". But tell me, how can they build an 18-story building, from foundation to roof, in 6 months?

I know - damn impressive!! One thing's for sure - we know who the contractor must be!!

NSawyer · #**3929** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 3:24 AM**

Hey Bvic,

It was great to hear you on 720!

ardecila · #**3930** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 3:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSawyer

Hey Bvic,

It was great to hear you on 720!

Yeah, ditto!

I had no idea that Adrian Smith has had such a huge hand in downtown's redevelopment (Lakeshore East Plan, State Street, etc). Or maybe Milt was just generalizing Smith's role as a senior partner in SOM, assuming that he headed up all major projects.

It was great to hear that Smith also hates Block 37, but bad to hear that he wants to tear the Post Office down. Kamin hit it on the head when he said that Smith coveted the unique site for one of his own buildings.

Alliance · #**3931** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 3:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSawyer

Hey Bvic,

It was great to hear you on 720!

Which question did he ask?

NSawyer · #**3932** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 3:58 AM**

He asked why Chicago is the location for so many new and proposed supertalls. He also voiced his support for the Children's Museum which I appreciated.

Alliance · #**3933** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 3:59 AM**

..and I didn't

Too bad his question wasn't really answerd.

honte · #**3934** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 5:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila

I had no idea that Adrian Smith has had such a huge hand in downtown's redevelopment (Lakeshore East Plan, State Street, etc). Or maybe Milt was just generalizing Smith's role as a senior partner in SOM, assuming that he headed up all major projects.

No, those really were his projects. Of course, so many people worked on them...

Steely Dan · #**3935** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 3:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan in Chicago

There are quite a few updates since the forum went down:

NEWLY COMPLETED BUILDINGS:

Kingsbury Plaza
Prentice Women's Hospital (opened Saturday, October 20)

TOPPED OUT:

1401 South State
Emerald, South Tower

SITE PREP:

Hotel Palomar (Case rigs are on site; BVic says it will start early next week.)
565 Quincy (Thanks spyguy; demolition has begun on rooftop features.)

NEW HEIGHTS:

Lexington Park: 388'-2" (up from 365')
1720 South Michigan: 368'-1" (up from 367')
SoNo (both towers): 305'-10"
The Mondial: 182'-11.5"
Pure: 138'-0"

Only the west tower of SoNo is under construction. No caissons have been drilled yet for the east tower, and the contractor doesn't know when it will start. The east tower might be rental.

thank you very much for all that info dan. i've finally updated page 1.

chicubs111 · #**3936** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 6:12 PM**

Chicago will be a getting alot of apartment towers direclty in the loop in the next 5 months...there is a bunch that will start constructions...225 west washington, another on washington,, and some more...the desingns arent bad either.

dropdeaded209 · #**3937** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 6:38 PM**

hey everyone, google maps added street view to chicago. interesting to cruise around downtown and check out the construction progress. it's pretty up-to-date and there's great shots of trump, 600 N. Fairbanks and the addition to the Art Institute, among many others I'm sure.

just fyi.

harryc · #**3938** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 6:38 PM**

Caisson-less building

Instead of Caissons they will be using steel piles ( 95' long )

cubbbyblue · #**3939** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 6:42 PM**

[QUOTE=harryc;3128637]Caisson-less building

Instead of Caissons they will be using steel piles ( 95' long )

Does he fact that some of these piles seem to be a bit mishaped/out of alignment pose any risks to the overall construction?

Mr Downtown · #**3940** Posted **Oct 26, 2007, 7:54 PM**

No, piles are a "friction" foundation. So long as you get enough "stick" into the ground, the friction will resist gravity loads. I think they deliberately set them to fan out from what will eventually be the base of a column.

I didn't realize they set so many so close together, though. And 95 feet should be almost to bedrock!