HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Urban, Urban Design & Heritage Issues


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #101  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2007, 6:21 PM
G-Man's Avatar
G-Man G-Man is offline
It's all about the view!
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,311
Is it possible that the reason for some of the lack of business and political interaction between Seattle and Vancouver is because neither is a capital city?

While I know that recently BC and the Western States have been working together on more things, in the past the focus has been on BC and the East at least from a government perspective.

As a Victorian I wish there was still a car ferry between Seattle and Victoria. That was great and it was only like 12 bucks for walk-on... Now you have to take the clipper and that is like 90 round trip which isn't bad but it certainly lessons the amount of time I spend in Seattle.
__________________
Check out Vibrant Victoria
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #102  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2007, 6:28 PM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Gull View Post
But I think it says a lot that Vancouver and Seattle want to work together to co-host major sporting or cultural events in the future, whereas that would never be dreamed of for Toronto/Buffalo.

Interesting to note: The Vancouver Sun has just launched a "Cascadia" section in their Saturday issue, which will feature news from BC, AB, Yukon, Alaska, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana. I like this idea, actually. I just hope it works.

British Columbians tend to be too insular. The Sun used to have a section called "The West", devoted to BC, Yukon, AB, SK, and Manitoba, but it failed miserably. Apparently Vancouverites didn't want to read about the goings on in Brandon, MB.
It's reflected on this forum too. So the admins finally came to their senses and separated us from them.

Including Montana in the new "Cascadia" section is probably making it too broad, and coverage from that area will most likely drop off over time. I doubt anyone here cares about what some cattle ranchers there are up to.

Last edited by Nutterbug; Apr 19, 2007 at 6:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #103  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2007, 6:41 PM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
As a Victorian I wish there was still a car ferry between Seattle and Victoria. That was great and it was only like 12 bucks for walk-on... Now you have to take the clipper and that is like 90 round trip which isn't bad but it certainly lessons the amount of time I spend in Seattle.
That would probably be a waste, considering that ferries use up more fuel than cars driven over the same distance, not to mention taking a lot longer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #104  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2007, 10:14 PM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 40,089
i wonder if Vancouver could ever join the NW news network - it covers news form the NW - watched it when down in portland

didn't BCTV at some point ap0ply to start a 24 hour news network for Vancouver?
__________________
belowitall
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #105  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2007, 10:20 PM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,067
^ If the CRTC can give them approval.

I figure it'll be more interesting than CBC Newsworld.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #106  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2007, 10:26 PM
MtnClimber MtnClimber is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The Last Frontier
Posts: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
since there are so many seattle people in this thread - do you think there is a good connection between vancouver and seattle than either city and other cities in other parts of the country

it seems to piss off toronto people and other canadians that vancouver and seattle have such a strong connection instead of having that connection with the rest of Canada...

at least it seems that way to me

I happen to agree with this statement. I think the bond bewteen Seattle and Vancouver is much stronger then other similar cities in different parts of the country. I have lived up and down the whole pacific northwest coast, and I find people from BC, WA, OR and SE alaska to be somewhat insular from the rest of North America.

That being said, if the yellowstone super volcano erupts. All points eastward shall be cut off and we will have no choice but to form our own indepdent state
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #107  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2007, 1:04 AM
steel's Avatar
steel steel is offline
try being in the Buff
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 1,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Gull View Post
Seattle and Vancouver have a better bond than, say, Toronto and neighbouring Buffalo, New York (the latter two cities despise eachother).... .

I would say this is basically false. T and B do not despise each other. There is a basic brotherly bond between the 2 cities which are only 1.5 hours apart. Of course Toronto is much bigger and wealthier and more important than Buffalo but at the same time T envies that fact that being a Canadian city is does not get the attention it would get if it was an American city of the same stature. Toronto is a growth machine and the two cites are practically connected now by continuous sprawl between them (excepting of course for Hamilton which is the forgotten little sister city in the middle)

Last edited by steel; Apr 27, 2007 at 4:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #108  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2007, 2:36 AM
MtnClimber MtnClimber is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The Last Frontier
Posts: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel View Post
I would say this is basically false. T and B do not despise each other. There is a basic brotherly bond between the 2 cities which are only 1.5 hours apart. )
There may be a bond, but I don't think it is the same as the bond between Seattle and Vancouver.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #109  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2007, 4:25 AM
steel's Avatar
steel steel is offline
try being in the Buff
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 1,254
I am not commenting on that I am just saying that Buf and Tor don't despise each other except perhaps on the ice rink (especially now that Sabres tickets are in such short supply shutting out the Toronto fans) Buffalo and Toronto are much much closer together physically but Van and Seat are much closer to each other in status.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #110  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2007, 4:40 AM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel View Post
I would say this is basically false. T and B do not despise each other. There is a basic brotherly bond between the 2 cities which are only 1.5 hours apart. Of course Toronto is much bigger and wealthier and more important than Buffalo but at the same time T envies that fact that being a Canadian city is does not get the attention it would get if it was an American city of the same stature.
I think it's the other way around. Toronto gets to be the big fish in the little pond, whereas the rest of the US pays little attention to Buffalo.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #111  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 1:01 AM
MtnClimber MtnClimber is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The Last Frontier
Posts: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rod View Post
And there seems to be a few SEA-boosters on this site who love to project a vision that Seattle is not.

And yes, it does piss some of us off when Vancouver's dense skyline and vibrant streetlife is credited as being Seattle in the films.
.
I've spent a fair amount of time in both cities and I find Seattle to have a fairly vibrant street life. I suppose Robson street can get pretty busy, but so can places like Capital Hill/Greenlake/westlake. Seattle is a fairly vibrant city, so I am not sure what your talking about.

Last edited by MtnClimber; Apr 29, 2007 at 11:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #112  
Old Posted May 14, 2007, 1:21 AM
Hot Rod's Avatar
Hot Rod Hot Rod is offline
Big City Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle-Vancouver-Osaka-Chongqing-Chicago-OKC
Posts: 1,187


not to belabour the discussion any further, but only to respond ^

the films often like to protray Seattle and the Space Needle as this very vibrant urban compact area, when in-fact this is not quite the case. Seattle is a great city, I live here, but the Seattle districts you mentioned (Greenlake, Cap Hill, Westlake) would probably encompass the same land area as the whole city of Vancouver yet still is not as vibrant.

Yet, in the films - they often use shots of Vancouver's downtown and say it's Seattle (or other cities). While I agree Cap Hill does have some vibrancy to that of the Davie District and both are GayHoods, C.H. is not downtown. Westlake is pretty vibrant but it does not have the same street feel as downtown Vancouver's many districts.

Whatever floats your boat, right? Some people prefer Seattle's 'drive-to-the-garage/lot and shop' but I prefer Vancouver's urban city pedestrian feel - and I have seen in films that Seattle gets credit for this when in reality it is not. Fair enough!?! That was my point ... "what I'm talking about"

I think the films should let Vancouver stand in more for SF since the two cities are separated twins (same mommie, two different daddies) and have MUCH MORE incommon.

Could we let this thread die now!


Last edited by Hot Rod; May 14, 2007 at 1:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #113  
Old Posted May 14, 2007, 3:45 AM
Black Box's Avatar
Black Box Black Box is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 895
^It's just a movie.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #114  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2007, 6:53 PM
Holden West's Avatar
Holden West Holden West is offline
Avatar in beta test mode
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,812
Boddy again. This time he sets his sights on Hamburg.

DWELLING: ARCHITECTURE

Lessons from Hamburg

Vancouver is rated near the top of the pack for best places to live, but we can still learn from other cities

TREVOR BODDY
July 6, 2007
Globe and Mail

HAMBURG, Germany -- This week, Trevor Boddy begins a month-long tour of European and Japanese cities to explore new ideas shaping urban planning and architecture.

Ranked at the top of the pile on livability indexes from The Economist magazine and international executive relocation firms, Vancouver has lots of reasons to feel good about itself. We live in "The best place on earth," or so we are told by those high rotation commercials paid for by our provincial government. When the sun shines on the mountains, it is easy to believe all this hype.

But naive self-congratulation can be a deadly sentiment when applied to city-building, and British Columbia's ex-politicians, in particular, specialize in naive self-congratulation. Well - goes their line - if those pop-in experts like us so much, let's just go on making a downtown into a resort for the rich and aged because, hey, everybody likes a resort. What we have been doing for the Downtown Eastside is just fine after all, because those all-seeing evaluators surely must have toured down there. Better architecture - why bother, when we're already the best?

Taking a few weeks to look at new urban development in Japanese and European cities has been an eye-opener for me. My eyes are now open to the fact that Vancouver is not - by any measure - the best of all possible worlds.

No place was more responsible for shaking my vancouver boosterism than the northern German port city of Hamburg. With a city-proper population of 1.2-million and a metro area number of 4-million, the "Free and Hanseatic City" is about twice our size, though like many large European cities strung-together from medieval villages, it does not seem so.

Vancouver planners and politicians are endlessly boastful about our new developments around False Creek, and not without reason. But a tour of Hamburg's massive redevelopment of its own portside brown-field sites is a humbling experience.

Our former EXPO 86 site was assembled by the province, then sold at a loss to Concord Pacific. These lands have been developed almost exclusively for housing - False Creek is being ringed by places to live and play, not work.

Hamburgers see a green future in maintaining a balance of live and work, and are building on this belief: 60 per cent of new portside spaces are housing, 40 per cent offices. Like Vancouver, they encourage a variety of housing types, from low end rental to super-deluxe, Phillipe Starck-designed eye-grabbers.

The most ambitious of Hamburg's water's-edge new neighbourhoods is called HafenCity. Port City it is, building out onto surplus docks and rail yards from the late 19th century brick warehouse district called Speicherstadt, in the same way Concord Pacific builds out from our less architecturally impressive Yaletown. HafenCity is now about one third the way to realizing its total build-out of 1.5-million square meters (a staggering 15-million square feet), which will include workspaces for 40,000 people (half the total of all workers in our downtown core), plus 5,500 mainly-rental apartments for up to 12,000 new residents.

At around 100 hectares, HafenCity and Concord Pacific's neighbourhoods are almost exactly the same size. At an average building density of 2.5 times site area in new construction, the two projects are also comparable. But wait, the Germans have no building taller than 10 storeys, the maximum height of the corbelled and arched red brick Speicherstadt warehouses on the city side. How could this be - not a skinny condo tower, not a single townhouse in the whole HafenCity development?

This punctures the Vancouver balloon that reads "high rise equals high density city," because people-per-hectare counts in our Concord Pacific and Downtown South high rise zones are no higher than some of Montreal's four-storey-max districts, and significantly less than Barcelona or Paris, in large part because Vancouver is so extravagantly generous in providing park and elementary school sites.

HafenCity is developed by a city-controlled redevelopment agency, and every stage of its planning and construction - from overall site concept, developer purchase proposals for each urban block, right down to the architecture of each building - has been produced by design competitions.
These are carefully managed by HafenCity staff so that if the results of any contest is less than excellent, the process can be opened up again, (Oh, that we had this option for South East False Creek's 2010 Athlete's Village!) The most visible difference between Vancouver and Hamburg is in the quality of architecture. One of the first of HafenCity's areas to be completed is called Sandtorkai, and each of its eight housing blocks has a refreshingly different architectural expression, but all of them are good neighbours to each other, as well as the old buildings and city centre across a slip of water.

Each building has a different architect, and they include young firms, as well as local bigwigs and imported famous name designers like London's David Chipperfield and Zurich's Herzon and de Meuron. By contrast, Vancouver has a tiny number of low-fee architectural firms designing nearly all of our condo towers - and they look it.

But HafenCity's architects design within an urban design framework that sets the general form and shape of each building at Sandtorkai, every one of them, for example, extending out over Hamburg's equivalent of the seawall and beyond that to hover dramatically over the water. Vancouver Parks Board and Planning Department, did you hear that? Buildings sheltering portions of the sea wall, bold architecture rising above the harbour, rather than hiding behind shrubberies.

Other than James Cheng's Marinaside project, after a dozen years touring visitors around Concord Pacific I have a hard time remembering who designed what there, so bland and interchangeable is the architecture. I won't soon forget HafenCity, proof that developer's profit, public interest, and high quality dwelling spaces are better achieved through design and forethought, rather than manic building binges.

[email protected]
__________________
Batman: "Better put 5 cents in the meter."
Robin: "No policeman's going to give the Batmobile a ticket."
Batman: "This money goes to building better roads. We all must do our part."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #115  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2007, 7:42 PM
soleri soleri is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,246
I imagine Vancouver boosters will take exception to Boddy's critique here, which is really a shame. What Vancouver needs is a self-confident citizenry not willing to settle for mediocrity in design. Vancouver will grow regardless. It can do it with an eye for making itself a truly amazing city, or more probably, a city in a hurry just to grow.

Today, the sheer scope and scale of the new construction simply impresses everyone. Vancouver is an urban paradise. But given the dreariness of the competition on this continent, it might be better to look overseas. Don't settle. You don't have to.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #116  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2007, 9:52 PM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 40,089
some pics of hafen city















__________________
belowitall
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #117  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2007, 6:01 PM
Rossiapacifica Rossiapacifica is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 143
Hilarious anecdotes....

I just noticed this thread, and had to jump in!

In general, as you are all aware, people are ignorant of geography and demography. Consider these three hilarious stories. The first happend when I was living in Los Angeles. At a meeting, I inquired of a friend if she had ever visited the "northwest."

"Oh, yes," she said. "Vancouver is a beautiful City!"

"Did you drive or fly?" I asked.

"Oh, we drove!"

"Did you also visit Seattle on your way, I asked?

"No," she said. "It rains too much.."

Story number two: I was visiting with one of my Seattle friends, comparing notes, and the subject of population came up. I reminded him that Seattle's population base is larger than Vancouver's.

He acted surprised. "Oh," he said. "I thought that there are six million people in Vancouver!" (In addition, he had no idea how many people live in the Seattle area--he simply though that because Vancouver is 'exotic', there must be millions and millions and millions of people there.)

Number three. There are books floating around with hilarious tourist comments, these comments having been collected by concierges. One was that a tourist was viewing the Olympic Range from a hotel room on a higher floor of a downtown Seattle hotel. The scene was beautiful, and later she approached one of the concierges and asked "Are those mountains in Canada?" What was she thinking--that a view that attractive can't possibly be in the United States, so it must therefore be in Canada?

I'm sure that Vancouver concierges have similar stories. I'll bet Vancouver tourists, when they see Mount Baker looming on the horizon, can't figure out why the mountain is in a different country.

The point here is, misconceptions abound regarding both cities/regions. Tourists, visitors, and residents alike don't know their facts--they rely on popular misconceptions or form their own based on nonsense.

Rossiapacifica

Last edited by Rossiapacifica; Jul 9, 2007 at 6:05 PM. Reason: Grammar
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #118  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2007, 7:14 PM
jlousa's Avatar
jlousa jlousa is offline
Ferris Wheel Hater
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,371
I've heard a couple from the concierge at the Pan pacific, one he hears a bit is a americans off the cruise ship will point to the north shore and ask if that's Japan, says he's had that a half dozen times, others that think they know think it's Victoria.
He said the best one was a lady walking along Canada Place while a cruise ship was backing up to leave, turned to him and asked what time we would be back as she had dinner plans, when asked what she was talking about she pointed to the sails of canada place then to the moving cruise ship and stated can't you see we've left port and are moving.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #119  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2007, 7:54 PM
Holden West's Avatar
Holden West Holden West is offline
Avatar in beta test mode
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 5,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
He said the best one was a lady walking along Canada Place while a cruise ship was backing up to leave, turned to him and asked what time we would be back as she had dinner plans, when asked what she was talking about she pointed to the sails of canada place then to the moving cruise ship and stated can't you see we've left port and are moving.
OMFG! I would have told her I hope you brought a change of clothes because this is the non-stop cruise to Maui.
__________________
Batman: "Better put 5 cents in the meter."
Robin: "No policeman's going to give the Batmobile a ticket."
Batman: "This money goes to building better roads. We all must do our part."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #120  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2007, 12:36 AM
Hourglass Hourglass is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Here and there
Posts: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by soleri View Post
I imagine Vancouver boosters will take exception to Boddy's critique here, which is really a shame. What Vancouver needs is a self-confident citizenry not willing to settle for mediocrity in design. Vancouver will grow regardless. It can do it with an eye for making itself a truly amazing city, or more probably, a city in a hurry just to grow.

Today, the sheer scope and scale of the new construction simply impresses everyone. Vancouver is an urban paradise. But given the dreariness of the competition on this continent, it might be better to look overseas. Don't settle. You don't have to.
That's very true. But I find Trevor Boddy to be rather one-sided in his perspectives -- probably to get his point across. HafenCity looks very impressive. But overall I found Hamburg to be a rather dreary place. Given a choice between Van and Hamburg, I would choose Vancouver, hands down.

Again, that's not to say Vancouver can't and shouldn't learn from other cities in Asia and Europe.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Urban, Urban Design & Heritage Issues
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:19 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.