Trevor Boddy: The New Seattle (versus Vancouver)

Rusty Gull · #1 Posted **Mar 30, 2007, 7:53 PM**

From the recent issue of Vancouver Magazine -- Trevor Boddy takes a hard-hitting look at urban developments in both Seattle and Vancouver. It's fair to say that Boddy is partial to what is happening in The Emerald City.

As usual, Vancouver's urban planners will want to take cover from Boddy's journalistic wrath:

http://www.vanmag.com/travel/07apr/Seattle.shtml

vanman · #2 Posted **Mar 30, 2007, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Next time you spend a weekend in Seattle, do what I call the “condo test.” About 8 p.m. on a Sunday night, just before you point the Toyota back at the border, pass through the epicentre of Seattle’s new downtown condo zone, Belltown, and estimate the ratio of apartments with lights on. A week later at the same time, stroll through our equivalent zone—Bayshore and Coal Harbour—and do the same thing. The difference is startling—where are all the Vancouverites’ lights? I would like to think we’re all making passionate love in the dark, or dining at our swankiest restaurants, but the stark reality is that nobody lives in those condos much of the time. Nearly half of Bayshore-Coal Harbour condos have been bought by speculators, split between fellow Canadians preparing for retirement here and a golden global class of investors whose real estate dalliances tend to dissolve as quickly as they form.

What the hell? There are 5 times more people living in downtown Vancouver than downtown Seattle, I guess Trevor Boddy forgot that fact

Taken from a Seattle paper:

Quote:

Beasley and Spaxman said the biggest difference between downtown Seattle and Vancouver is the ratio of downtown jobs to housing. Vancouver has about 85,000 people living downtown and 135,000 downtown jobs. Seattle's downtown supports about 165,000 workers, but only 22,000 residents. That means more commuters and more traffic congestion.

twoNeurons · #3 Posted **Mar 30, 2007, 10:42 PM**

Seattle biggest employers are Microsoft and Boeing. Both of which are nowhere NEAR downtown.

mezzanine · #4 Posted **Mar 30, 2007, 11:04 PM**

A large chunk of his arguement on why Seattle has more dynamism is based on the stronger economic base Seattle has (Seattle has more head offices of larger global companies, and therefore has more DT workers and corporate largess for civic projects). This I agree on, but somewhat goes beyond planning and not easily resolved.

Boddy also picks coal harbour as an example, not entirely fair. It is quite high-end and not readily affordable to most vancouverites. Belltown would be more comperable to Downtown south or concord pacific IMO....

Hed Kandi · #5 Posted **Mar 30, 2007, 11:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Gull

From the recent issue of Vancouver Magazine -- Trevor Boddy takes a hard-hitting look at urban developments in both Seattle and Vancouver. It's fair to say that Boddy is partial to what is happening in The Emerald City.

As usual, Vancouver's urban planners will want to take cover from Boddy's journalistic wrath:

http://www.vanmag.com/travel/07apr/Seattle.shtml

Interesting Article

smasher000 · #6 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 1:19 AM**

That article pissed me off.

LOL this Boddy guy wrote an overall comparison but ended up talking about Vancouver's faults in both:
Seattle: look at Vancouver for our strength in shared infrastructure, especially its public transit. Vancouver has had a little too much lately of city planners-über alles, but Emerald City, maybe it’s time your city actually set up a planning department, rather than sprinkling those forward-thinking functions over three or four other civic agencies.

Vancouver: your parks, theatres, schools, community centres and transit lines are all wonderful, but sooner or later you will need to generate wealth in a renewable way to pay for them, and those earnest workaholics three hours south may have something to teach us. We have gazed away for too long, and it is high time our Siamese cities had a good hard look at one other.

This is some arrogant man from Seattle who is trying to convince himself that Vancouver is some shitty city and that HIS Seattle is the most wonderful place to live. HE SHOULD TAKE A LOOK AT WEST SEATTLE IN THE BAD NEIGHBORHOODS..

It's so bias.. he's comparing the two cities and saying nothing bad about Seattle. He continuously defamed Vancouver and exaggerated Seattle. And the nerve of him to put it in a Vancouver magazine from a Seattle point of view.

Boddy: Learn how to write an article.

LeftCoaster · #7 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 1:33 AM**

135 000 downtown jobs Vs 165 000 downtown jobs in Seattle? COnsidering Seattle is at elast 50% the size of Vancouver population wise, i think Seattle has more to worry about than we do! I dont really understand that stat however, how are the numbers that close? Do we define a larger area as our downtown?

Nutterbug · #8 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 1:33 AM**

He speaks of Vancouver in the first person, so I'm assuming he lives here.

SFUVancouver · #9 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 2:09 AM**

He's a Vancouver architecture critic. He is a local. There was a spread on Millennium Water (post-2010 Olympic Village) written by him today in the Globe and Mail. It was interesting hearing his take on the Urban Design Panel meetings regarding the project. I have attended most of them over the last 9 or 10 months and it has been remarkable how fast the project has evolved and how much Trevor Boddy was oblivious to in regards to the design process to date.

Also, a bit off topic, the sign for Foundry by Polygon in SEFC is up. They broke ground on Wednesday.

natelox · #10 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 2:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanman

Quote:

Next time you spend a weekend in Seattle, do what I call the “condo test.” About 8 p.m. on a Sunday night, just before you point the Toyota back at the border, pass through the epicentre of Seattle’s new downtown condo zone, Belltown, and estimate the ratio of apartments with lights on. A week later at the same time, stroll through our equivalent zone—Bayshore and Coal Harbour—and do the same thing. The difference is startling—where are all the Vancouverites’ lights? I would like to think we’re all making passionate love in the dark, or dining at our swankiest restaurants, but the stark reality is that nobody lives in those condos much of the time. Nearly half of Bayshore-Coal Harbour condos have been bought by speculators, split between fellow Canadians preparing for retirement here and a golden global class of investors whose real estate dalliances tend to dissolve as quickly as they form.

What the hell? There are 5 times more people living in downtown Vancouver than downtown Seattle, I guess Trevor Boddy forgot that fact.

But it's true! Some cities such as the Gold Coast in Australia actually limit foreign investment in projects (in terms of residential buyers) to 50%. Vancouver really needs to insitute something like this. You can an article about that here which ran in the Vancouver Sun last Saturday. Gordon Price also has an article on the topic.

Nutterbug · #11 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 2:19 AM**

^ Just hope the market shows some signs of dipping, and maybe they'll all be selling in a panicked frenzy.

smasher000 · #12 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 2:29 AM**

Well, he didn't have to trash Vancouver like he did. If he likes Seattle so much he should move there instead of grumbling about the city he lives in.

subdude · #13 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 2:44 AM**

Boddy doesn't want Vancouver to become complacent now that we've won international raves for urban design. He's to be comended for that.

SpongeG · #14 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 6:50 AM**

according to the numbers only 35% of condos are foreign owned

Hot Rod · #15 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 6:56 AM**

Seattle/Tacoma/Everett/Bellevue/Bremerton/Olympia: 3.6M residents
Greater Vancouver Regional District: 2.4M residents

not quite 50% eh? More like 1/3rd bigger.

Oh, and look at the area of the "Greater Seattle". A comparable area for Greater Vancouver would yield more residents. In fact, I think it is wholly appropriate for the census to include more EXURBS into Metropolitan Vancouver than JUST Abbotsford area (which today will push Metro Van above 2.7M by the way). There are MANY commuters from Vancouver Island, which is also the case in the Seattle/Tacoma Consolidated Area.

I think, if you want to compare apples to apples, then you need to compare like area/population/concatchment to like. If this were the case, Seattle couldn't hold a candle to Vancouver other than corporate offices - and that is mainly due to no-income tax for WA state.

baggab · #16 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 1:10 PM**

I wouldn't think much about it. He's a filler columnist, he just writes columns that annoy without researching very much on what he's talking about. He's like some of the people that appear as "professional" commentaries on TV or Newspapers several times a year.

The mere mention of Real Networks made me laugh.

smasher000 · #17 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 6:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

Seattle/Tacoma/Everett/Bellevue/Bremerton/Olympia: 3.6M residents
Greater Vancouver Regional District: 2.4M residents

not quite 50% eh? More like 1/3rd bigger.

Oh, and look at the area of the "Greater Seattle". A comparable area for Greater Vancouver would yield more residents. In fact, I think it is wholly appropriate for the census to include more EXURBS into Metropolitan Vancouver than JUST Abbotsford area (which today will push Metro Van above 2.7M by the way). There are MANY commuters from Vancouver Island, which is also the case in the Seattle/Tacoma Consolidated Area.

I think, if you want to compare apples to apples, then you need to compare like area/population/concatchment to like. If this were the case, Seattle couldn't hold a candle to Vancouver other than corporate offices - and that is mainly due to no-income tax for WA state.

Agreed. Offices is the only thing that Seattle has that Vancouver does. Boddy knew that and reinterated it again and again for two pages.

He says we need to follow Seattle's public transit.. AND LOOK AT THEIR FAILED MONORAIL that nobody even USES!!!!

Western Spaghetti · #18 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 6:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanman

What the hell? There are 5 times more people living in downtown Vancouver than downtown Seattle, I guess Trevor Boddy forgot that fact

Taken from a Seattle paper:

It depends on what you would consider as downtown boundries. Calgary has more than 22k living downtown. It seems hard to believe that's all there is in Seattle's downtown.

Jared · #19 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 8:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

Seattle/Tacoma/Everett/Bellevue/Bremerton/Olympia: 3.6M residents
Greater Vancouver Regional District: 2.4M residents

not quite 50% eh? More like 1/3rd bigger.

actually, 3.6M/2.4M = 1.5, or 150% the size of Vancouver.
Hence, 50% bigger.

mr.x · #20 Posted **Mar 31, 2007, 9:03 PM**

Seattle has public transit? where????