Edmonton Public Transit - Page 22

canucklehead2 · #**421** Posted **Aug 11, 2006, 7:08 PM**

Edmontons layout of streets made it virtually impossible for the LRT to be built anywhere but under Jasper Avenue. Because the blocks run longer North-South than East-West, any station on the surface would have most certainly disrupted traffic flow to a point where the downtown would be in complete chaos. The only other solution would have been to run the LRT down the CN ROW, but that would have moved the downtown line far from any of the actual buildings to which it is best served.

Now that we have the LRT tunnel though, we have paid off the biggest potential cost to running the LRT everywhere else in the city. We just need to get those surface extensions built so that the downtown tunnel can be used to an even greater degree than it is now.

The only potential handicap though is the fact that there are only around 70 000 workers in downtown Edmonton compared to 225 000 in downtown Calgary, so even if we build more extensions to connect downtown, the intensive use won't quite be the same. Having said that though, there are still 8000 or so MacEwan students, and 40 000+ staff and students at the U of A not to mention NAIT and its large population. Connecting these to the LRT will bring up the potential user base significantly.

We must also keep into perspective how unique Calgary is in terms of its high concentration of downtown office workers in Canada. After all it has the second highest ammount of office space in Canada, yet its population is 4th, so in that respect Cgy is an exception rather than the rule.

SHOFEAR · #**422** Posted **Aug 11, 2006, 10:18 PM**

Canucklehead, you wouldn't have the stats on the average riderships at stations this summer on the LRT compared to last summer would you? I'm really curious if the Health Sciences station has attracted new riders or just took them from University station. I'm assuming that gas prices and increased infill have further added to ridership levels so It would take a bit of figurin to come to any sort of conclusion.

CMD UW · #**423** Posted **Aug 11, 2006, 10:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazycanuck

I agree with Calgary's decision to go above ground when the system was first constructed. It gave the system time to grow and frankly 20 years ago that money to go underground would have been wasted.

Actually, 20 years ago the City of Calgary would have recieved a much larger portion of funding from both the Province and Federal governments. The previous infrastructure grant programs (which are now scrapped) were more generous than they are today.

Quote:

Also, compared to Edmonton it will cost alot more to dig through Calgary's downtown than through Edmonton due to more tall buildings and historical structures to worry about as well as more issues due to water seapage and alike.

Construction will cost more in real dollars regardless of the obstructions such as buildings, roadways, etc.

rapid_business · #**424** Posted **Aug 11, 2006, 11:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHOtime

Canucklehead, you wouldn't have the stats on the average riderships at stations this summer on the LRT compared to last summer would you? I'm really curious if the Health Sciences station has attracted new riders or just took them from University station. I'm assuming that gas prices and increased infill have further added to ridership levels so It would take a bit of figurin to come to any sort of conclusion.

Those stats are all on the city website, but what you want (this summer) won't be available for awhile.

canucklehead2 · #**425** Posted **Aug 12, 2006, 3:39 AM**

There is usually a delay in stats, but just from personal experience, the LRT feels busier this year than last, so I would place a safe bet that the eventual stats will prove the system is now moving 45-50k/average day rather than 42k/day last year.

rapid_business · #**426** Posted **Sep 25, 2006, 6:53 PM**

So it looks like the west BRT line might get scaled back. What a shame. An argument is that low ridership right now means it is the best target to axe. I would think it is a "build it and they will come" situation. Ridership is low, because taking the bus from Lewis Estates to DT 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵! Give a faster and nicer option... people will jump all over it.

Good job Phair for sticking up for it. I need to post this on C2E as well....

feepa · #**427** Posted **Sep 25, 2006, 7:01 PM**

I guess Phair only cares about people in Lewis Estates?
Tell him to try taking route 1, 2, or 4 in the morning from WEM. Or even the 100...

element103 · #**428** Posted **Sep 25, 2006, 8:36 PM**

Just in case no one has seen this yet, they've put up an Edmonton BRT Project website:

http://www.edmontonbrt.ca/

rapid_business · #**429** Posted **Nov 18, 2006, 6:46 PM**

I figured I'd revive this thread to post an idea from C2E:

I always felt that the LRT worked great for getting traffic downtown and to other places, but it was always impractical to get 'around' downtown. (Unless you were traveling from Grandin to Churchill or something)

Also, the buses traveling down Jasper are frequent, yet busy. Not to mention the large population (and future population) of the rest of Jasper Ave. and area outside of downtown. (from 82 to 124)

I can tell you that many more people would be willing to step on a fixed rail system over a bus any-day. My experiences in Vienna, Toronto and beyond have gone to prove this. Heck, even in Edmonton, many people would jump on the LRT over a bus if it made sense.

Fixed rail makes sense to people. They know where it's going. They know it will be frequent, and they know it can't deviate from the path even if it wanted to. On top of that, it appeals to people a lot more then buses do. Perhaps it's stereotyping, perhaps it's the wait times, at stations, but it's true.

So here it is.

Now there are a couple things here that would be debatable. For instance, would it be a center of the street path, or in the far right current bus lanes? Would it be a hop-on and off system, or designated stops (small platforms)?

I propose a center of the street system, with small platforms (at grade, not raised) every couple of blocks. This is much like the Vienna system. There is the option of it crossing over for street side stops if need be. (like Vienna as well)

The garage would be just south of the current Stadium LRT station. (replacing the mini storage there as well) The street cars would also have priority signaling at the 111th and 82nd st. intersection for turning.

The alternative route is also an option catering to downtown east traffic, churchill sq., etc. As I currently reevaluate, this may be the better route. There is also the option of expanding this network north up 124th as it becomes more of a pedestrian-orientated street, and south down 109th and the High Level Bridge, eventually turning down Whyte Ave to 99th St.

feepa · #**430** Posted **Nov 18, 2006, 7:08 PM**

I like your idea, and its one that I have been thinking about myself.

This is more along the line that I thought

102 ave in oliver (111 st - 124st) would be used for transit only

see other alternations

CMD UW · #**431** Posted **Nov 19, 2006, 2:31 AM**

@onishenko - that is an ideal route for a streetcar in Edmonton. Perfect.

RicoLance21 · #**432** Posted **Nov 19, 2006, 8:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by onishenko

I figured I'd revive this thread to post an idea from C2E:

I always felt that the LRT worked great for getting traffic downtown and to other places, but it was always impractical to get 'around' downtown. (Unless you were traveling from Grandin to Churchill or something)

Also, the buses traveling down Jasper are frequent, yet busy. Not to mention the large population (and future population) of the rest of Jasper Ave. and area outside of downtown. (from 82 to 124)

I can tell you that many more people would be willing to step on a fixed rail system over a bus any-day. My experiences in Vienna, Toronto and beyond have gone to prove this. Heck, even in Edmonton, many people would jump on the LRT over a bus if it made sense.

Fixed rail makes sense to people. They know where it's going. They know it will be frequent, and they know it can't deviate from the path even if it wanted to. On top of that, it appeals to people a lot more then buses do. Perhaps it's stereotyping, perhaps it's the wait times, at stations, but it's true.

So here it is.

Now there are a couple things here that would be debatable. For instance, would it be a center of the street path, or in the far right current bus lanes? Would it be a hop-on and off system, or designated stops (small platforms)?

I propose a center of the street system, with small platforms (at grade, not raised) every couple of blocks. This is much like the Vienna system. There is the option of it crossing over for street side stops if need be. (like Vienna as well)

The garage would be just south of the current Stadium LRT station. (replacing the mini storage there as well) The street cars would also have priority signaling at the 111th and 82nd st. intersection for turning.

The alternative route is also an option catering to downtown east traffic, churchill sq., etc. As I currently reevaluate, this may be the better route. There is also the option of expanding this network north up 124th as it becomes more of a pedestrian-orientated street, and south down 109th and the High Level Bridge, eventually turning down Whyte Ave to 99th St.

...hmm. On most of what you envision, using the existing trolley lampposts to utilize a streetcar line is for sure a big bonus.

Hardhatdan · #**433** Posted **Nov 19, 2006, 11:32 AM**

This idea is "da bomb" I love it!

Coldrsx · #**434** Posted **Nov 26, 2006, 9:50 PM**

LRT can be dangerous place
The Edmonton Journal
Published: Sunday, November 26, 2006

The recent youth stabbings have received much attention, but there are many incidents that go unheard of.

As I was riding the LRT at 9:30 p.m. last weekend, three rowdy youths under the influence of drugs pulled out a knife and threatened the person standing in front of me, who earlier had told them to quiet down while riding the train.

We got off, and two of the youths started to swarm the man while the youth held the knife by his side as he followed. I ran from the scene and the couple who ran with me called security on the emergency phone in the LRT station. I do not know what happened after that.
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That they were attempting to attack an innocent person not only frightens me, but also makes me reluctant to use the LRT. Security must be heightened because the violence is escalating.

How many people does it take to die from these incidents before something is done about it?

Natasha Kuzyk,

Edmonton

© The Edmonton Journal 2006

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

riding the train quite a lot nowadays and i have to say, i really think we need a crackdown by LRT 5-0 on tickets and just to have a visual presence.

I see so so many people who likely dont have a ticket riding this train and i began to think that if i was of the criminal nature and needed to get from say NE to downtown or anywhere how easy the LRT would be to ride from place to place.

Sure i might be stereotyping a bit or making assumptions, but i have this strange feeling im NOT.

How about a public campaign of LRT/transit safety where they do a month blitz of having double the police/LRT guys and also go through 5 times the number of trains to check for valid tickets and not only hand out fines but institute another measure to make this penalty a bit stiffer for repeat offenders.

i bet 1/7 people on the train dont pay.

CMD UW · #**435** Posted **Nov 26, 2006, 9:53 PM**

While security can't be everywhere all of the time, a blitz doesn't hurt. Although I admit that I have seen Transit Police catch quite a few people without tickets.

Coldrsx · #**436** Posted **Nov 26, 2006, 9:54 PM**

^it isnt about catching everyone, we all know thats not possible, but a public campaign on the heels of the new fed lrt $$ for safety to really get the message out it is a safe viable form of daily transport and to those who abuse it or pose a threat, throw em from the train.

rapid_business · #**437** Posted **Nov 27, 2006, 7:44 AM**

Oyster cards are 50% of the answer.

Xelebes · #**438** Posted **Jan 31, 2007, 7:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by feepa

I guess Phair only cares about people in Lewis Estates?
Tell him to try taking route 1, 2, or 4 in the morning from WEM. Or even the 100...

I've only seen the number 2 or 4 going to WEM at 6:30 in the morning.

I remember the 112 being crazy as 🞵🞵🞵🞵 when I was going to Centre High, three years ago.

canucklehead2 · #**439** Posted **Jan 31, 2007, 4:53 PM**

Yeah, if you are trying to get between WEM and downtown, avoid the 109, 112, 113, and even the 111 isn't that great. That's one of the problems I noticed with alot of the cities bus routes. There are few direct hub links between point A and B. My friend for example lives in Twin Brooks and to get to Jasper Place T.C. it takes her 4 buses. Of course if the LRT were in place, the trip could be accomplished in 2 trains (one downtown, and then one to the west end via JP)

I was bored yesterday doing a bit of research at the library for a new story I am pitching on Friday, and I came across the 1979 Edmonton General Plan, and of course they had the 2001 LRT map, and I just about cried. It just makes me so sad how far behind we are in terms of what should have been built with our population by now.

Edmonchuck · #**440** Posted **Jan 31, 2007, 5:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucklehead2

. It just makes me so sad how far behind we are in terms of what should have been built with our population by now.

and now you know why I rant on this topic so much. We've had the "plans" forever. No more studies, no more committees, just do it already.