Atlantic Canada airport thread

[stephan.richard]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

The PAL plan would probably have been better used as an investment in Maritime Bus instead to getbetter service between the key cities. Maybe investment in encouraging PAX rail instead by setting up a SJ to HFX corridor. While air travel is faster, it's not really convienet overall, and the costs (especially now) for the short distances involves don't really make it worth it. I'd prefer a clean and comfortable motor coach or train car over a tiny noisy airplane cabin, especially when the bus/train wouldn't be THAT much longer when you factor in the security lead times, and where the airports are in relation to the cities. Especially with the differences in ticket prices.

In Montreal Air Canada has bus services linking the Downtown core to Dorval as well as Air Canada is also using a bus to conntect Pearson to smaller airports. In the United States American Airlines offers bus service from Atlantic City to Philadelphia and they service the passengers go trough security in Atlantic City and they get dropped off on the secure side of the airport.

[nwalbert]

A passenger train that went SJ - 1 Hour - Moncton - 2 Hours - Halifax, back and forth 2 times a day would be perfect!

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

A passenger train that went SJ - 1 Hour - Moncton - 2 Hours - Halifax, back and forth 2 times a day would be perfect!

Wouldn't work without about a zillion dollars of upgrades to the tracks and a change in freight having priority over passenger.

Under the present conditions passenger rail is just way too slow

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Wouldn't work without about a zillion dollars of upgrades to the tracks and a change in freight having priority over passenger.

Under the present conditions passenger rail is just way too slow

Gunna need a source on that zillion dollar quote, sailor.


You know what wouldn’t cost billions? Investing in a much better bus system! Investing in a better bus system to includes service like overnight busses between SJ, Freddy, Moncton, and Halifax would be a game changer for interprovincial transportation, and help better connect maritimers to airports across the region. It would be an investment that is good for residents, and good for tourism!

If bus service was ever affordable and convenient enough to catch your next flight at a non local airport, I bet even you, Sailor, could be convinced to take the bus to Moncton, Fredericton, or Halifax for your next flight.

We could have a lot more to show for our interprovincial government’s investments if we invest now in a better maritime wide bus service, than we are going to have to show for n ten-twenty years time when this PAL Atlantic Pilot Program is a distant thought from the past.

NB’s airports need bigger thinking from government than subsidized flights if they ever want to fundamentally improve air access to and from NB.

Saint John needs better links to YFC, HQM, and YHZ, since YSJ doesn’t seem to have any sort of rescue plan or expansion plan on the way. We need better access to other maritime city’s and their airports that doesn’t require driving a car.

Better bus services seems to be the logical answer… and if we can’t be part of the PAL Pilot program, perhaps we can instead be part of a “Better Maritime Bus Pilot Program”, which would include an overnight bus to Fredericton/YFC, Moncton/YQM, and Halifax/YHZ from SJ, and eventually bus service to Halifax via Digby and Yarmouth to give more Saint Johners a reason to take advantage of the Fundy Rose ferry, and the CAT ferry, which costs government many millions each year. The Fundy Rose crosses the Bay of Fundy 4 times daily, regardless of whether there is a single walk on passenger, or a a couple hundred, bus service onwards to Halifax would give a lot more people a reason to take the ferry across to Nova Scotia as a walk on.

As for where to start with bus service to better connect Saint Johners with the other major Maritime Airports… a service that loops between Saint John-Fredericton-Moncton-Halifax with at least two busses going in each direction, including overnight busses, would be a great start!

A:




B:




Option A would be the simpler route to start with in terms of logistics, but Option B would also be worth investing in, as it would enhance the viability of both the CAT and Fundy Rose ferries for non car passengers, and be a boon for interprovincial and interregional tourism with Maine/New England.

[dhottawa729]

We have to think of reality though. Example, if I want to get from Ottawa to Saint John. I will not fly to Fredericton, wait at that super tiny airport for multiple hours for this twice-daily maritime loop bus to arrive, travel another hour to Saint John, then get have to get a $50 taxi to Quispamsis. That’s a full day of travel for me, vs 1.5hr direct for my friends in Fredericton, Moncton and Charlottetown. At least when I have to connect at Pearson and spend the whole day there waiting for my Saint John flight because I missed the connection by as little as 5 minutes (happened more than once), there are some decent bars to hang out at.

Another example if was I was in Quispamsis and wanted to get to Frankfurt, I wouldn’t be interested in doing a milk run tour of the maritimes’ finest cities before or especially not after a transatlantic flight. This might suit a student who spent their last dollar on the plane ticket, but for most income earners, time is valuable and very few people would give up that much of their time to save a few bucks.

Sorry, I’m very bitter about YSJs 🞵🞵🞵🞵 service that we even have to talk about this silly (sorry) bus idea. I just want to be able to visit my elderly parents more easily and more regularly. I was in SJ six times last summer and each time was a major pain to get there and I’m fed up with the whole thing. Meanwhile YQM is boasting record passenger numbers but thousands of people like me are suffering while simultaneously contributing to that positive stat. It’s like helping dig your own grave but people only care about how efficient that is for the graveyard workers.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

We have to think of reality though. Example, if I want to get from Ottawa to Saint John. I will not fly to Fredericton, wait at that super tiny airport for multiple hours for this twice-daily maritime loop bus to arrive, travel another hour to Saint John, then get have to get a $50 taxi to Quispamsis. That’s a full day of travel for me, vs 1.5hr direct for my friends in Fredericton, Moncton and Charlottetown. At least when I have to connect at Pearson and spend the whole day there waiting for my Saint John flight because I missed the connection by as little as 5 minutes (happened more than once), there are some decent bars to hang out at.

Another example if was I was in Quispamsis and wanted to get to Frankfurt, I wouldn’t be interested in doing a milk run tour of the maritimes’ finest cities before or especially not after a transatlantic flight. This might suit a student who spent their last dollar on the plane ticket, but for most income earners, time is valuable and very few people would give up that much of their time to save a few bucks.

Sorry, I’m very bitter about YSJs 🞵🞵🞵🞵 service that we even have to talk about this silly (sorry) bus idea. I just want to be able to visit my elderly parents more easily and more regularly. I was in SJ six times last summer and each time was a major pain to get there and I’m fed up with the whole thing. Meanwhile YQM is boasting record passenger numbers but thousands of people like me are suffering while simultaneously contributing to that positive stat. It’s like helping dig your own grave but people only care about how efficient that is for the graveyard workers.

Who said it has to be just twice daily? I just put TD station down as the location for purposes of simplicity… it would be pretty damn easy to have a stop in KV between YQM and YFC. If the bus service was well funded enough, it would run far more often than just twice daily, and it would include overnight services too.

In terms of being realistic, it’s a lot more realistic and feasible to invest in better maritime wide bus services, than it would be to invest what is needed into the Saint John Airport (including flight subsidies) to bring more flights to YSJ and have it approach the same level of air service as YQM and YFC.

I don’t think busses only have to be options for cash strapped students and low income earners, and I especially don’t think better bus services between Saint John, Fredericton, Moncton, and Halifax only have to be for getting people between airports… but it could be useful for that too.

If we had such a bus service up and running already, perhaps more people from Fredericton and Moncton, especially cash strapped students, would have taken the bus to YSJ to take the Pascan flight to MTL, and maybe we’d still have the service.

I think it’s extremely silly and elitist to say no one wants to ride a bus to get to the airport. Like would you really rather hang out at airport bars at Toronto Pearson for hours on end, instead of just hoping on a bus to get home from YQM, YFC, or even YHZ?

[gtsoc]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Like would you really rather hang out at airport bars at Toronto Pearson for hours on end, instead of just hoping on a bus to get home from YQM, YFC, or even YHZ?

Unequivocally yes.

[adamuptownsj]

That's a serious no-brainer. Plus if you're stuck at Pearson for a really unpleasant amount of time, or the lounges are packed, just take the U-P Express downtown and back out later.

[Mattyyy]

Anybody have any thoughts on YQM and potential expansion? I have noticed over the past few years, if I'm catching a flight or picking somebody up, the passenger waiting area is very busy. You typically have to move up to the second floor to find available seating. I haven't read any concrete plans and perhaps I just happen to catch it at busy times, but it does seem to be tight on space during busy periods.

On another note, does anybody have any guesses when YQM may surpass 1,000,000 passengers annually? Is this perhaps something that could take many years, or is it possible over the short term?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by gtsoc

Unequivocally yes.

Kinda goes against the whole “time is valuable” argument, doesn’t it?

If I could get home sooner by taking a bus to SJ from Fredericton, Moncton, or even Halifax, I’m picking that option 99% of the time versus spending 5 more hours at Pearson or Trudeau.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Kinda goes against the whole “time is valuable” argument, doesn’t it?

If I could get home sooner by taking a bus to SJ from Fredericton, Moncton, or even Halifax, I’m picking that option 99% of the time versus spending 5 more hours at Pearson or Trudeau.

Not me. I'd choose a longer connection and the convivence of getting off the plane in SJ and into my car for the drive straight home.

Heck, I'd almost always drive to catch a flight from YQM,YFC,YHZ etc rather than be tied to a bus schedule.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

Anybody have any thoughts on YQM and potential expansion? I have noticed over the past few years, if I'm catching a flight or picking somebody up, the passenger waiting area is very busy. You typically have to move up to the second floor to find available seating. I haven't read any concrete plans and perhaps I just happen to catch it at busy times, but it does seem to be tight on space during busy periods.

There are long term plans, yes. If you dig far enough back in the Airport thread, they have already been posted.

If you are up for a read, here is the pdf of the airports long term master plan.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1z5iyikl8...rlkey=bq0g1w32pqenqky3nsxcbi26d&e=1&dl=0

In short, they may look at expanding the second level holding area, adding another loading bridge, expanding concessions and giving more car rental kiosks in the main lobby area. This is all discussed in pages 66-70 (or so). The broader document is much more comprehensive and touches on all areas of airport operation. It makes for an interesting read (if you have lots of time to kill).

On another note, does anybody have any guesses when YQM may surpass 1,000,000 passengers annually? Is this perhaps something that could take many years, or is it possible over the short term?

I would have thought we might be at 1,000,000 PAX right now, but, the pandemic happened, and then Trump happened (amongst a couple other things), and the airports ambitions keep getting thwarted. I personally think it will happen. We will likely be over 750,000 PAX this year. Maybe we'll see a million within the next decade.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Not me. I'd choose a longer connection and the convivence of getting of the plane in SJ and into my car for the drive straight home.

Heck, I'd almost always drive to catch a flight from YQM,YFC,YHZ etc rather than be tied to a bus schedule.

Pretty much the only people who would be taking a bus would be the ones that don't have a car. It's just too convenient if you have a car, even if you have to pay to park at the airport.

[Taeolas]

Depends on how it is set up and sold.

If Air Canada or Porter or Westjet would hire a motor coach company to do the bus runs, and synched it up with their flight schedules so you could get on a bus with your luggage and be brought to the airport with relatively minimal waiting time, I woudl take it in a heart beat. One of the main things would be to have the airlines involved so you have a somewhat seamless experience transferring from coach to plane and back basically. But it would need to be arriving/leaving in that "sweet spot" time period where waiting in YQM or YFC or YSJ doesn't feel "too long". An hour window from coach to plane and back would be about it; 2 hours would be pushing it. Arguably going plane to coach I'd want a shorter window; even a 1 hour wait would feel like forever.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Depends on how it is set up and sold.

If Air Canada or Porter or Westjet would hire a motor coach company to do the bus runs, and synched it up with their flight schedules so you could get on a bus with your luggage and be brought to the airport with relatively minimal waiting time, I woudl take it in a heart beat. One of the main things would be to have the airlines involved so you have a somewhat seamless experience transferring from coach to plane and back basically. But it would need to be arriving/leaving in that "sweet spot" time period where waiting in YQM or YFC or YSJ doesn't feel "too long". An hour window from coach to plane and back would be about it; 2 hours would be pushing it. Arguably going plane to coach I'd want a shorter window; even a 1 hour wait would feel like forever.

I agree. Especially your latter point. When I get off the plane I want to be out of the airport and on my way....That's even more true if I am on the way home after a full day of travel. Jump in the car and get home ASAP every time for me!

[new kid in town]

I'm just in awe of EnvisionSaintJohn being able to insert his dream of ferry service into the airport thread. Like it's really a pipe dream but I admire the dedication to the idea of it.

[Bishop2047]

The only bus ---> air services I could see being successful/supported would be air carrier managed busses bringing folks from secondary cities and towns not serviced by those carriers (think Edmundston, Yarmouth, Sydney) to an airport that it does service. This would be part of your airline ticket similar to what AC is doing already but could be emulated by porter or WJ.

Dont see this being successful here mind you.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by new kid in town

I'm just in awe of EnvisionSaintJohn being able to insert his dream of ferry service into the airport thread. Like it's really a pipe dream but I admire the dedication to the idea of it.

My dream is the return of the Saint John Harbour ferry… the Fundy Rose is very much a real ferry that crosses the Bay of Fundy 4 times a day between NB and NS, but good luck going onwards to Halifax if you didn’t cross in a car.

There really should be a bus connecting Digby and Yarmouth (with the CAT ferry) to Halifax.

As for busses, I think there’s valid arguments to increase funding of bus services to better help maritimers move between our cities and their airports.

Would be nice to see Porter start with a pilot program for a bus between Saint John and YFC/YQM since we’ve just lost our link to the Porter network.

[stephan.richard]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

Anybody have any thoughts on YQM and potential expansion? I have noticed over the past few years, if I'm catching a flight or picking somebody up, the passenger waiting area is very busy. You typically have to move up to the second floor to find available seating. I haven't read any concrete plans and perhaps I just happen to catch it at busy times, but it does seem to be tight on space during busy periods.

On another note, does anybody have any guesses when YQM may surpass 1,000,000 passengers annually? Is this perhaps something that could take many years, or is it possible over the short term?

I have thought about it numerous times and looking at the strategic plan and future development of the airport. They have identified a few key places that they were lacking and one thing that was discussed was to add more jetways at the airport. Currently on peak times the airport’s two jetways tend to be full and other planes need to deplane on the ramp. I feel that the airport needs to install a jetway capable of handling widebody aircraft’s. I can’t wait to see the numbers for this year at the airport. Plus I would love to see more flight options in the summer with taking advantage of either trans Atlantic flights and possibly adding year round flights to either Mexico, South America or even India given the amounts of people who immigrated here.

[Mattyyy]

Appreciate that! I will take a look through the pages!

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There are long term plans, yes. If you dig far enough back in the Airport thread, they have already been posted.

If you are up for a read, here is the pdf of the airports long term master plan.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1z5iyikl8...rlkey=bq0g1w32pqenqky3nsxcbi26d&e=1&dl=0

In short, they may look at expanding the second level holding area, adding another loading bridge, expanding concessions and giving more car rental kiosks in the main lobby area. This is all discussed in pages 66-70 (or so). The broader document is much more comprehensive and touches on all areas of airport operation. It makes for an interesting read (if you have lots of time to kill).



I would have thought we might be at 1,000,000 PAX right now, but, the pandemic happened, and then Trump happened (amongst a couple other things), and the airports ambitions keep getting thwarted. I personally think it will happen. We will likely be over 750,000 PAX this year. Maybe we'll see a million within the next decade.