The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Agreed.....the major problem with that intersection in my experience is not having enough room for cars waiting for the left turn arrow to get on the Throughway.

All of the above are a fair number of years off. Anybody know what's scheduled for next year and 2028?

New hydro corridor from Coleson Cove through Rockwood to Glen Falls (plus a spur from around Westgate to the mill), bottom couple blocks of Charlotte reconstruction... those are the big ones. Maybe the Gault/Manawagonish/highway ramp roundabout? Presumably another couple of street reconstructions in ends both south and north?

[bingun]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Agreed.....the major problem with that intersection in my experience is not having enough room for cars waiting for the left turn arrow to get on the Throughway.

All of the above are a fair number of years off. Anybody know what's scheduled for next year and 2028?

I think a lot of their focus and money is still on our favorite bridge . The causeway project is also upcoming which is significant. I think the other big local projects are finishing off the storm water work on lower cove/charlotte and some similar work in the North End.

I don't think it falls under this provincial program but I believe some of the preparatory work for Manawagonish/Gault Road roundabout has already happened this year or is ongoing, construction should be next year.

[Ire Narissis]

Unless something has changed, I believe the redevelopment of the Gault Rd. / Ocean Westway / Route 7 onramp spaghetti into a proper roundabout is slated for next year.

It had been given lower priority than the airport one, but the lack of provincial funding for the latter pushed it ahead in the queue, and if I'm not mistaken its planning was funded this year by money redirected from part of Harbour Passage development that failed to get a grant for the remainder of its costs.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by Ire Narissis

Unless something has changed, I believe the redevelopment of the Gault Rd. / Ocean Westway / Route 7 onramp spaghetti into a proper roundabout is slated for next year.

It had been given lower priority than the airport one, but the lack of provincial funding for the latter pushed it ahead in the queue, and if I'm not mistaken its planning was funded this year by money redirected from part of Harbour Passage development that failed to get a grant for the remainder of its costs.

Yeah, the Riverview Drive section didn't get the funding they hoped for. Honestly, not hugely upset by this; I don't think it's the priority right now. You could walk/run/cycle down there fairly safely as is; they just wanted to join it up to the random orphaned section along Market Place West.

If only they'd put some money and time into Chelsey Drive!

[ell]

Originally Posted by bingun

Yeah, the Riverview Drive section didn't get the funding they hoped for. Honestly, not hugely upset by this; I don't think it's the priority right now. You could walk/run/cycle down there fairly safely as is; they just wanted to join it up to the random orphaned section along Market Place West.

If only they'd put some money and time into Chelsey Drive!

While I think that there's a ton of value in better connecting Market Place to the rest of Harbour Passage (via Riverview Drive and The Cove), the bigger problem is getting across Reversing Falls bridge.

Whenever that domino eventually falls, extending Harbour Passage down Riverview Drive will be an obvious win. One argument for doing it sooner is that the sidewalk on that street is in rough shape.

My MUCH bigger problem is taking active transportation funds and reallocating them to a motor vehicle roundabout. Unless it has great sidewalks/bike lanes . . .

[adamuptownsj]

I think the priority sections should be Douglas from the museum to the bridge(since we're apparently committed to Douglas instead of my preference of Chesley), then continue down Broad to at least Pitt. That would provide an uninterrupted three miles, not counting the Cove or the Fallsview portions. Everything beyond this is a more serious undertaking.

I'm partial to eliminating the sidewalk on the north side of the Reversing Falls bridge and putting a proper, wide, walking/biking path along the south side, but they won't/shouldn't touch that until the Harbour Bridge is functional.

I was thinking the other day, you know what would make a great place for a 'spur'? Crown/Seeley down to the apartments on Davenport. Would really connect that neighbourhood to the rest of the city a little better. Right now it's an unlit gravel path with urban campers filling it up with junk and worse. A crosswalk across Crown wouldn't really interfere with traffic.

[ell]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

I think the priority sections should be Douglas from the museum to the bridge(since we're apparently committed to Douglas instead of my preference of Chesley), then continue down Broad to at least Pitt. That would provide an uninterrupted three miles, not counting the Cove or the Fallsview portions. Everything beyond this is a more serious undertaking.

I'm partial to eliminating the sidewalk on the north side of the Reversing Falls bridge and putting a proper, wide, walking/biking path along the south side, but they won't/shouldn't touch that until the Harbour Bridge is functional.

I was thinking the other day, you know what would make a great place for a 'spur'? Crown/Seeley down to the apartments on Davenport. Would really connect that neighbourhood to the rest of the city a little better. Right now it's an unlit gravel path with urban campers filling it up with junk and worse. A crosswalk across Crown wouldn't really interfere with traffic.

I think Douglas will be prioritized, as the museum nears completion. Especially with the crosswalk at the east end of Reversing Falls Bridge.

Completely agree about the sidewalks on Reversing Falls Bridge (although south side seems better?). I think that Harbour Bridge construction will be much less impactful after this year, except for continued work on the Chesley ramps.

Good idea for Davenport too! Achieving an appropriate slope might be challenging/expensive but it would be a huge improvement.

[bingun]

I am a big believer in the path of least resistance. Have you ever seen those images of footpaths on college campuses, where students cut corners and go straight across a field instead of using the path? This is no different.

If you are coming from uptown and heading west, either to see the reversing falls or for something farther, are you really going to cross Chelsey, walk up the steep hill on Bentley Street, walk down Douglas, and then cross the street again back to the south side?

I appreciate that once the new museum opens, folks will go back and forth between the museum and the falls, but that doesn't mean they should exclude Chelsey. If we have to lose a driving lane in one direction for a short length to get past Ocean Steel, then so be it.

[ell]

I think the best solution is to continue Harbour Passage along the water behind Ocean Steel, though I know that's a long shot.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

“The Cove” will be a nice extension of the Harbour Passage, but it’s a path that already exists, and won’t really change anything for people looking to get between the West Side and Uptown.

I think a Harbour Bridge pathway is a much more needed priority, that would fundamentally improve the situation for people looking to walk or cycle between the West Side and Uptown.



While this is the type of project that should have been planned before the major bridge renovations, it’s never to late to invest in this type of transformative project, and could be done with little to no disruption to traffic.

Above is a map of the city’s future plans for the Harbour Passage, which does include a path across the Harbour Bridge.

[ell]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

“The Cove” will be a nice extension of the Harbour Passage, but it’s a path that already exists, and won’t really change anything for people looking to get between the West Side and Uptown.

I think a Harbour Bridge pathway is a much more needed priority, that would fundamentally improve the situation for people looking to walk or cycle between the West Side and Uptown.

I’m all for a Harbour Bridge solution, I think it’s egregious that we’ve had over a decade of Harbour Bridge refurbishment with zero improvements to active transportation access.

That said, claiming that The Cove won’t really change anything vastly overstates the quality, safety, prominence, and accessibility of the existing path.

I am literally hiking through the existing path as I am typing this message and even though I am comfortable walking it (even while typing!) it will be a game changer when it is improved to Harbour Passage standards.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by ell

Completely agree about the sidewalks on Reversing Falls Bridge (although south side seems better?).

Good idea for Davenport too! Achieving an appropriate slope might be challenging/expensive but it would be a huge improvement.

Re: bridge: Maybe I was unclear; the south side is where a walking/biking path should be.

Re: Davenport: There's already a gravel path. I think the perfect is the enemy of the good here. So what if there's a section with a serious grade?

Originally Posted by ell

I think the best solution is to continue Harbour Passage along the water behind Ocean Steel, though I know that's a long shot.

Originally Posted by bingun

I appreciate that once the new museum opens, folks will go back and forth between the museum and the falls, but that doesn't mean they should exclude Chelsey. If we have to lose a driving lane in one direction for a short length to get past Ocean Steel, then so be it.

I don't think that's at all necessary. Going from Bentley to the bridge...

I would definitely like to see the passage extend behind the OSCO parking lot and office, up Merritt Street, and then to Chesley. That's another 750' of Chesley you can avoid with a relatively limited amount of fill. Or if we cheaped out it could just run between Chesley and the parking lot for very little money.

Then you've got 600' from Merritt to the narrow section. Plenty of room for a parallel-to-Chesley section, especially if you scrap the sidewalk altogether.

Next is a 700' stretch where the Ocean Steel manufacturing building is ~15' from the road, more or less, plus some tough spots up to the spur line. I'm sure they'd accommodate a slightly wider and redder sidewalk with a narrow verge. I doubt they would want a pedestrian path between their heavy industrial site and the waterfront, for liability/security reasons.

Uphill from this is about 750', the first 400 of which would have to hang pretty close to Chesley due to the gradient. Once you get to the large lot where IIRC a gas station blew up in the 70s, you can easily run the path along the cliff edge, landscape, and maybe add a couple parking spaces for access to the lookout.

This whole stretch would really benefit from a big and well-promoted OSCO sponsorship. It's nearly a kilometer and about a third of that could realistically be along/above the water.

[ell]

Re: north-south, I may have misread, sorry

Re: perfect-good, I somewhat agree but there should be a plan to make it safe and accessible, even if it wouldn’t be at first.

Your Chesley Drive solution would be great!

[cdnguys]

[bingun]

Originally Posted by bingun

The city uploaded the PAC meeting recording where this was discussed. The developer had a presentation which included a site plan and development renderings; sadly, the video recording didn't capture this.

However, from the verbal conversation, the plan is to build 3-story townhouses facing Westmorland Road. Construction may start as early as late this year and will likely take 1-2 years.

PAC approved the changes unanimously.

A building permit is in for the foundation of a 28-unit apartment building in front of the 'red house' on Westmorland Road. There was a new street made for this 'Craigie Lea Loop' so that's the address. I thought this was originally going to be townhouses.

[RaginRonic]

In terms of Harbour Passage, I'd somehow like to see the part of Fort Howe which used to be Moore St./Rockland Road become part of the Passage too.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by RaginRonic

In terms of Harbour Passage, I'd somehow like to see the part of Fort Howe which used to be Moore St./Rockland Road become part of the Passage too.

Not feasible unless you demolish about $2M worth of townhouses on Harbour Terrace, or blast rock feet behind them... and that's assuming the old Rockland Road is structurally sound enough to pass muster. More feasible (if much less cool) to go up Simonds, hang a right on Magazine, and follow the road to Fort Howe. Side benefit of proximity to Beaverbrook.

The whole Fort Howe area needs serious work, both the park and the road network. Cameron Court should connect to Osborne Avenue instead of having basically a highway ramp onto Somerset, there's serious infill potential at Kitchener and Magazine, and the park itself is mostly scrub and asphalt.

[bingun]

Relevant section of the North End Plan below.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

The 2027 budget survey was released earlier this week. If you are local, try to find the time to complete it and vote wisely!

https://shapeyourcitysaintjohn.ca/shape-your-budget/surveys/shape-your-budget-20261

Last chance to fill this one out. Was glad to see the city championing tax/revenue fairness as one of the priorities we could select.

[cdnguys]

Drove by 99 king this evening and they are working away installing steel awning on Charlotte