[Saint John, NB] Lorneville | Spruce Lake Industrial Park Expansion | +1500 acres

[paperplane]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Yes, I know the “backup generators” aren’t actually “backup” hence the quotes and mentioning they’ll be running continuously.

I think they should be getting way more pushback on this piece of the proposal, since “backup” generators that they plan to run continuously aren’t really backups at all.

Large scale solar, wind, and battery storage solutions throughout the industrial park could at least help limit the use of the “backup” generators to the point where they could actually be justifiably referred to as backup systems.

Hopefully there’s some plans to majorly invest in renewable energy and battery storage solutions throughout this expanded industrial park.

I don't even know where the notion of "backup" came from, as it's never been backup. They need more energy than NBP can provide, so they're self-supplying 190MW of the required 400MW for the hyperscale AI Data Centre.

It's just not that great a project or overall benefit to SJ, and sited in an area that's certainly not ideal either, but this is what NB/SJ is willing to accept for business.

I'm really curious what the second project will be.

[bingun]

This week, the EIA was updated to include the TRC (Technical Review Committee) Comments and Proponent Response Report. In other words, the government's questions for Voltagrid/Beacon and their answers. It is not a light read by any stretch (if you are interested in birds, there are pages and pages of questions about them), but there are a few interesting responses in there. Also, plenty of 'we will get back to you on that' responses.

https://www.gnb.ca/content/dam/GNB3/t/en...s-enregistrements/1657-/1663-round-1.pdf

TRC COMMENT:
Has the proponent considered the following alternatives to 50 x 4.5 MWe natural gas fired combustion turbines?
1. One or more, more appropriately sized natural gas combined cycle turbine generating units?
2. Solar PV and Battery Energy Storage System?
3. Contracting with a renewable developer connected elsewhere on the electricity transmission system, with Battery Energy Storage System's located on premises?
For each of the three alternatives, please explain why they were not considered, or if they were please elaborate as to why they were not selected as the proposed option.

PROPONENT RESPONSE:
The proponent has considered the identified alternatives. A hyperscale datacenter has very specific reliability requirements (99.9% reliability), 100% IT instantaneous load (on and off on a 200 MW scale), and variable loads in millisecond increments. Combined cycle turbines can only increase at a rate of 1% per minute (making them unsuitable for 100% IT instantaneous load) and variable power loads also mean worse fuel usage and emissions as well as turndown problems on the combined cycle component (meaning that the plant would not be able to operate in combined cycle mode when load is down). Solar and Batteries cannot feasibly deliver consistent 200 MW (note the Project is 190 MW however the 200MW scenario is described here for ease of calculation) load at 99.9% reliability without the use of substantial amount of land. For a 200 MW project, with firm reliability at 99.9% in Saint John, a credible engineering estimate is roughly:

Component
Solar PV (DC)
Battery storage
Land for solar

Approximate size
5,000-8,000 MW
15,000-30,000 MWh (3-6 days of full load)
20,000-32,000 acres (~80-130 km²)

The variable nature of the load (i.e. 200 MWs on and off), would be very problematic for any transmission / utility scale grid. For those specific reasons, the selected technical solution is best in class and can meet the specific end use case.

TRC COMMENT:
While the cooling system will be closed loop, there will be a need to replace water in that system. How and where will the water be disposed of? Are there any quality concerns with the wastewater due to being used in the cooling process upon disposal?

PROPONENT RESPONSE:
The cooling system is a closed-loop chilled water system. Water loss from the loop is minimal, in the range of 0.1% to 0.5% of total system volume per year, replenished via a small makeup water connection. The loop water contains glycol and chemical additives including corrosion inhibitors and biocides. Under normal operation there is no discharge from this system. In the event of maintenance drain-downs or system flushes, the water will be collected and disposed of by a licensed contractor in accordance with applicable New Brunswick environmental regulations.

TRC COMMENT:
Municipal tax and assessment impacts
- What is the projected assessed value of the completed project?
- What is the expected annual municipal property tax revenue?
- Are there any expected assessment exemptions, incentives, or appeals?

PROPONENT RESPONSE:
The assessment will be completed by the Province, and as such, the Proponent is not able to provide this information. The Proponent is not aware of any exemptions, incentives, or appeals currently under consideration regarding municipal tax and assessment.

[bingun]

In related news, I recently came across a data centre proposal near Eastport, Maine, just down the coast from New Brunswick. Apparently they want to build an underwater data centre and tidal power? Ambitious to say the least.

https://www.islandinstitute.org/working-waterfront/underwater-ai-data-center-proposed-off-eastport/



On the industrial park website, there is an interactive map showing individual parcels and their suggested 'optimal' uses. It says this was published in September, but I don't recall noticing this before. This gives insight into what locations they are hoping to utilize in the newly rezoned area and for what purpose.

The large red section in the centre is 'optimal' for data centres and is where the current data centre proposal is aimed. The brighter red section to the south west of that is also 'optimal' for data centres, implying they'd like more.

The blue coastal section to the far south and the bluish section west of King William Road is 'optimal' for hydrogen production.

The green sections are 'optimal' for green manufacturing.

The northern yellow/orange sections are 'optimal' for battery supply chain facilities.

Purple sections will presumably remain undeveloped.

https://www.sjip.ca/spruce-lake

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

In related news, I recently came across a data centre proposal near Eastport, Maine, just down the coast from New Brunswick. Apparently they want to build an underwater data centre and tidal power? Ambitious to say the least.

https://www.islandinstitute.org/working-waterfront/underwater-ai-data-center-proposed-off-eastport/



On the industrial park website, there is an interactive map showing individual parcels and their suggested 'optimal' uses. It says this was published in September, but I don't recall noticing this before. This gives insight into what locations they are hoping to utilize in the newly rezoned area and for what purpose.

The large red section in the centre is 'optimal' for data centres and is where the current data centre proposal is aimed. The brighter red section to the south west of that is also 'optimal' for data centres, implying they'd like more.

The blue coastal section to the far south and the bluish section west of King William Road is 'optimal' for hydrogen production.

The green sections are 'optimal' for green manufacturing.

The northern yellow/orange sections are 'optimal' for battery supply chain facilities.

Purple sections will presumably remain undeveloped.

https://www.sjip.ca/spruce-lake

Where does port expansion play into this map? I guess the bulk of that expansion could take place outside the borders of this parcel, but it should still be noted in the legend, imo. This is literally one of the deepest offshore locations on the entire eastern seaboard of North America, this is where the Port should be focusing its most forward thinking and ambitious expansion goals.

There’s still ample room and need for inner harbour expansion and port development, but this location at Lorneville could unlock the potential for the biggest cargo ships in the world to call upon the Port of Saint John. Holt should stop bringing up the Port of Belledune every 5 minutes and change the conversation on the data centre proposal for Lorneville, to a discussion on the biggest port expansion in the province’s history… a multi billion dollar port expansion at Lorneville would be an overwhelmingly popular idea and align with the PM’s ambitious vision to expand our ports and overseas trade infrastructure.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Where does port expansion play into this map? I guess the bulk of that expansion could take place outside the borders of this parcel, but it should still be noted in the legend, imo. This is literally one of the deepest offshore locations on the entire eastern seaboard of North America, this is where the Port should be focusing its most forward thinking and ambitious expansion goals.

There’s still ample room and need for inner harbour expansion and port development, but this location at Lorneville could unlock the potential for the biggest cargo ships in the world to call upon the Port of Saint John. Holt should stop bringing up the Port of Belledune every 5 minutes and change the conversation on the data centre proposal for Lorneville, to a discussion on the biggest port expansion in the province’s history… a multi billion dollar port expansion at Lorneville would be an overwhelmingly popular idea and align with the PM’s ambitious vision to expand our ports and overseas trade infrastructure.

I think this would imply they aren't pursuing that currently. The port's focus is definitely on that Simm's corner/rail upgrades for now; an expansion like Lorneville would be decades away.

[paperplane]

Originally Posted by bingun

I think this would imply they aren't pursuing that currently. The port's focus is definitely on that Simm's corner/rail upgrades for now; an expansion like Lorneville would be decades away.

I wonder if the City would really let the Port have first right of refusal of that land near the windmill at Coleson Cove for decades?

[bingun]

Something to keep an eye on this week.

Court to hear challenge of Saint John industrial park rezoning

https://yoursaintjohn.ca/court-to-hear-challenge-of-saint-john-industrial-park-rezoning/

Save Lorneville’s judicial review of Saint John council’s July 2025 decision to rezone land at the Spruce Lake Industrial Park will be heard in New Brunswick’s Court of King’s Bench on Sept. 1 and 2, at 9:30 a.m. on both days.

Members of the group, formed in 2024 to oppose the rezoning, Chris Watson, Adam Wilkins and Shayne Galbraith filed the lawsuit in October 2025.

According to court documents, the applicants are asking for a judge to reverse council’s decision.

The plantiff’s allege there is a breach in procedural fairness because one or more councillors had a “closed mind” when they approached the statutory hearing, such that refusal of the expansion was no longer genuinely on the table.

Applicants also argue that the decision was unreasonable because the rationale didn’t reasonably apply key requirements of Saint John’s Municipal plan policy LU-4.

[sailor734]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/data-ce...ficial-intelligence-technology-9.7330880

I wonder how the Lorneville proposal stacks up against these principles?

[bingun]

Originally Posted by sailor734

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/data-ce...ficial-intelligence-technology-9.7330880

I wonder how the Lorneville proposal stacks up against these principles?

Create lasting local benefits.

Employment and tax revenue seem like the obvious local benefits. They've thrown around estimates so far, but we won't know the assessment value until it's built. There is a big gap between the online narrative that data centres employ 10 people and the proponents' claim that it will be close to 100-200.

Not shift electricity costs to Canadians.

190MW is self-generated, so that somewhat aligns with this, but the big question is what impact the 200MW from the grid will have. NB Power know the answer to this; let's hope they are transparent. Sadly, I doubt it.

Minimize water use and environmental impacts.

The recirculating cooling systems align with this and minimize water usage. The environmental impact of clearcutting and construction is not as positive. The severity will depend on who you talk to.

Be transparent about local impacts.

I assume this includes things like noise and setbacks, or does it also include similar points to the above, like water, power, and employment? I don't think they've been overly evasive, but they're being very careful about what they say given their opponents. I think the struggle at the moment is that the locals don't believe what they're saying, and it's hard to tell who is right until it's built.

Bring strategic value to Canada.

This ties into who will use the data centre. Is it someone like OpenAI? If so, probably not strategically valuable to Canada. If it is used by Canadian companies to run their models or for defence, it could be very valuable. I don't think we are going to know who wants to use it until it's approved.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bingun

Create lasting local benefits.

Employment and tax revenue seem like the obvious local benefits. They've thrown around estimates so far, but we won't know the assessment value until it's built. There is a big gap between the online narrative that data centres employ 10 people and the proponents' claim that it will be close to 100-200.

Not shift electricity costs to Canadians.

190MW is self-generated, so that somewhat aligns with this, but the big question is what impact the 200MW from the grid will have. NB Power know the answer to this; let's hope they are transparent. Sadly, I doubt it.

Minimize water use and environmental impacts.

The recirculating cooling systems align with this and minimize water usage. The environmental impact of clearcutting and construction is not as positive. The severity will depend on who you talk to.

Be transparent about local impacts.

I assume this includes things like noise and setbacks, or does it also include similar points to the above, like water, power, and employment? I don't think they've been overly evasive, but they're being very careful about what they say given their opponents. I think the struggle at the moment is that the locals don't believe what they're saying, and it's hard to tell who is right until it's built.

Bring strategic value to Canada.

This ties into who will use the data centre. Is it someone like OpenAI? If so, probably not strategically valuable to Canada. If it is used by Canadian companies to run their models or for defence, it could be very valuable. I don't think we are going to know who wants to use it until it's approved.

Good summing up.....pretty even handed I think.

I guess in my mind not having clear answers to those questions makes it hard to judge the project as good, bad or neutral.

Given the long history of the NB government and municipalities making bad deals with private industry it's tough not to be a little suspicious

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Good summing up.....pretty even handed I think.

I guess in my mind not having clear answers to those questions makes it hard to judge the project as good, bad or neutral.

Given the long history of the NB government and municipalities making bad deals with private industry it's tough not to be a little suspicious

Here’s straight from our Minister of AI’s instagram:





Notice Beacon AI is listed among the companies to sign off on the government’s primary AI principles. I don’t think Carney’s AI minister would be posting company logos on his socials unless they were vetted.

Lorneville could end up attracting far more than Beacon AI to set up data centers at Spruce Lake Industrial Park. Getting a data centre from one of the big firms could be huge for the Saint John economy.

[bingun]

I am catching up after the long weekend, but there was some industrial park 'news' courtesy of our friends at Save Lorneville.


Cross River Infrastructure Partners seems interested in a separate data centre in Lorneville and has requested 50MW of power, with the potential for further expansion.

If you recognize the name, it is because they are the same company involved in the potential nuclear medical isotope project at Lepreau and were previously involved in potential nuclear projects in Belledune.


UH2 / Universal Kraft seem to be the proponent for a potential Hydrogen project in the industrial park. Apparently, government records show that NDAs and project discussions have taken place in the last year.

Another recognizable name as this is the company that is partnered with First Nations to build the solar farm in Saint John for SJE.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by bingun

As part of next week's 'investment summit' being hosted by Carney and the federal government, there is a 66-page prospectus listing 167 projects with investment opportunities.

As part of New Brunswick's latest tariff response, they mention that eight of these are NB opportunities.

https://www.gnb.ca/en/news/n-b.2026.09.new-brunswick-supports-local-business-tariffs-escalate.html



The Globe and Mail is reporting that a second generator at Point Lepreau is one of those projects.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business...stment-summit-carney-project-prospectus/

Related to above, The Logic is reporting that the AI Data Centre in Lorneville is also part of this prospectus.

The other six projects are yet unconfirmed.

https://thelogic.co/news/canada-investment-summit-prospectus/

The deal book includes several large new AI data centres, which collectively could add up to 5.7 gigawatts of AI infrastructure, significantly expanding Canada’s compute capacity. Projects include a US$3.9-billion, 365-megawatt campus led by Beacon Data Centres in Spruce Lake, N.B., designed for use by large cloud providers. It’s seeking financing for utility upgrades and electricity infrastructure.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by bingun

I am catching up after the long weekend, but there was some industrial park 'news' courtesy of our friends at Save Lorneville.


Cross River Infrastructure Partners seems interested in a separate data centre in Lorneville and has requested 50MW of power, with the potential for further expansion.

If you recognize the name, it is because they are the same company involved in the potential nuclear medical isotope project at Lepreau and were previously involved in potential nuclear projects in Belledune.


UH2 / Universal Kraft seem to be the proponent for a potential Hydrogen project in the industrial park. Apparently, government records show that NDAs and project discussions have taken place in the last year.

Another recognizable name as this is the company that is partnered with First Nations to build the solar farm in Saint John for SJE.

I thought I would point out here that shipping of LNG and Hydrogen from the East Coast were both mentioned by PM Carney in his speech to the EU Parliament this week, which seems to point at some pretty direct opportunities for Saint John.

"Canada can contribute LNG and hydrogen at large scale to support Europe’s energy security including by developing and leveraging new port infrastructure in the High North and on our East Coast. We, in turn, can benefit from your leadership in many clean energy technologies."
https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/speeches/20...ney-delivers-address-european-parliament

[bingun]

Credit to the Save Lorneville folks; they seem to be getting some juicy information from FOI requests. Mr Fogan might want to be more careful about what he puts in writing. Obviously, this is missing the context of the conversation, but regardless, he probably didn't think this was going to be public.

[adamuptownsj]

I think the city should have approached it publicly this way the whole time. Every part of it is true.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bingun

Credit to the Save Lorneville folks; they seem to be getting some juicy information from FOI requests. Mr Fogan might want to be more careful about what he puts in writing. Obviously, this is missing the context of the conversation, but regardless, he probably didn't think this was going to be public.

I don't see much in this email that I find objectionable or likely to be untrue.
I was unaware of any "data center" in Millidgevile......must be pretty small potatoes. Bell Alliant on Woodward Ave?

[bingun]

It's tiny by comparison; it's like comparing a house to an apartment building. It's grid electricity with no on-site generation, either.

I don't think he said anything crazy, but the new CAO should be more informed, in my opinion. Comes across as dismissive and condescending. The Save Lorneville folks want to make this out as predetermined and not properly reviewed, and stuff like this doesn't help. At least we have his opinion in writing now, even if he won't ever say it at a council meeting.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

If that’s how he put it in an email, just imagine what they’re saying off the record.

I just wish the Lorneville community would actually try and see what Voltagrid and Beacon AI might actually be willing to invest in for the community, instead of just opposing the proposal outright without even trying to see what the proponents may or may not be willing to invest in for the community.

Personally, I’d like to see Voltagrid and Beacon AI invest in an outdoor hockey rink (with chiller) in Lorneville, or somewhere else in West Saint John. The cost of such a recreation facility would be a mere drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the data centre / power infrastructure investment…

[Ire Narissis]

While I'm not necessarily against the Lorneville datacentre proposal, I do think it's incredibly egregious to draw a comparison between it and the Equinix datacentre in Millidgeville, which is tiny.

It's like saying "No one's bothered by the dumpster across the street in Millidgeville, so surely they'd be okay with a landfill across the street in Lorneville?" The difference in scale is an order of magnitude.