Immigrant population of cities around the world

[AviationGuy]

Duplicate

[Docere]

Top birthplace and percentage of immigrant/foreign born population

Melbourne: India 12%
Sydney: China 13%
Montreal: Haiti 8%
Toronto: China 14%
Vancouver: China 29%
Paris: Algeria 11%
London: India 9%
Boston: China 11%
Chicago: Mexico 35%
Dallas: Mexico 37%
Houston: Mexico 33%
Los Angeles: Mexico 34%
Miami: Cuba 30%
New York: Dominican Republic 11%
San Francisco: China 20%
Washington: El Salvador 13%

* China includes Hong Kong and Taiwan

[Docere]

Born in Mexico and % of foreign born population (US only)

Los Angeles 1,433,688 34%
Chicago 615,888 35%
Houston 588,518 33%
Dallas 575,042 37%
New York 274,689 5%
San Francisco 229,023 15%
Miami 71,112 3%
Washington 51,146 3%
Boston 9,534 1%

[Docere]

Other notable concentrations and percentage of immigrant/foreign born population:

Born in the Indian Subcontinent

London 694,380 19%
Toronto 666,260 23%

Born in French North Africa

Paris 767,707 24%
Montreal 143,315 14%

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by JManc

There's no way that Carrefour in that photo only sells food.

These very large hypermarkets (hypermarchés, as they are called here) contain usually a commercial mall at the entrance, and after the mall it's the supermarket proper, but in that picture the supermarket proper must be at least half the size of whole complex. The supermarket proper sells food, home stuff (cleaning products, toilet paper, etc), clothes, books, TV and electronics, sometimes even gardening products, but at least half the size of the supermarket is food. So I'd say a quarter of that entire complex must be food only. And that's huge.

There is simply no supermarket in Paris proper that has a food section as large. In the US, I shopped at Safeway, if my memory serves me right their food section approached the size of a food section in a regular French supermarket (not the large one in my picture), but with less variety and less quality than an average French supermarket.

For example, and that's just one example among many: puff pastry. In the Silicon Valley, Safeway didn't sell it, and the only supermarket that sold it was Whole Foods (I know because we had to go on an expedition once to try and find puff pastry for a recipe), and they had just 1 brand of puff pastry, frozen. Just any French supermarket outside of Paris proper will have 4 brands of puff pastry, and this is fresh puff pastry, not frozen.

Ditto for butter: like 20 times more choice and variety than in a US supermarket.

Etc. etc.

And even in the relatively small Parisian supermarkets you can find more variety than in US supermarkets (to say nothing of Mexico City!).

For example yesterday I shopped in a slightly larger than average supermarket in Paris proper (but still ridiculously small compared to the supermarkets outside Paris), and I could buy for example this, roulé aux fromages at the delicatessen stand (you have to bake it in the oven at home; 1 piece costs 5.13 USD, taxes included):



Or this, pâté en croûte, they sliced one slice for me (1 slice costs 3.40 USD):



Or this, an excellent gourmet Roquefort cheese (not the mass industrial production), which they also sliced for me. This is to die for! (the piece they gave me cost 7.14 USD... good Roquefort is always a bit pricey)



Or this, stuffed eggplants (1 eggplant costs 6.88 USD, which I find way too expensive, but these are Parisian prices... would be cheaper in the provinces):



This is a small supermarket compared to French standards (in the larger than average category for Paris proper, but ridiculously small compared to the rest of France), and yet they had no less than 6 different sorts of country ham that they slice for you (some French, some Spanish, some Italian; the one I ordered, French variety, cost 6.88 USD for 4 slices):



Plus various sorts of boiled ham:



Etc.

None of these things sound particularly out of the ordinary, or high-end for the French people. It's just the very ordinary stuff you would expect from any supermarket. In the provinces they have far more varieties and specialties that you can find only in some provinces (for example in my parents' hometown the supermarkets sell stuffed duck neck, which is super good, and which is hard to find in Paris... the creamy pieces in the stuffing is foie gras). Note: the supermarkets in the South-West of France which sell this are not high-end stores for the rich. They are standard supermarkets frequented by the working-class (rich people would buy in dedicated independent food stores in town). Duck neck is very affordable, I'd say 10 USD for the whole piece.



They also sell one of my little weaknesses, grattons de canards, some crunchy, savory pieces of duck fat with a little bit of dried meat attached to them... not very good for your waistline, but just impossible to resist. This is impossible to find in Paris (or perhaps in some very specialized stores that I don't know of), whereas all the large supermarkets in their hometown sell them, usually at least 2 different brands per supermarket, because this is a South-West specialty.



And as for the wine and spirit selection... you cannot even begin to imagine. I would say easily 20 meters of shelves, with about 4 rows from floor to top.



This is just the champagne selection in a regular French supermarket (outside of Paris proper). This one is in a metro area of just 46,000 people.

[dimondpark]

Combined Statistical Areas
Foreign-Born Population, 2024:
500,000+
6,400,697--New York-Newark
5,446,282--Los Angeles-Long Beach
2,847,372--San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland
2,769,419--Miami-Port St Lucie-Ft Lauderdale
1,915,357--Washington-Baltimore-Arlington
1,822,100--Houston-Pasadena
1,772,353--Chicago-Naperville
1,586,952--Dallas-Ft Worth
1,440,848--Boston-Worcester-Providence
1,033,251--Atlanta-Athens-Sandy Springs
926,460----Seattle-Tacoma
866,222----Philadelphia-Reading-Camden
764,407----Orlando-Lakeland-Deltona
702,259----Phoenix-Mesa
533,165----Detroit-Warren-Ann Arbor
513,760----Las Vegas-Henderson
510,733----Sacramento-Roseville

Percent of Population, Foreign-Born, 2024:
39.2%--Miami-Port St Lucie-Ft Lauderdale
31.1%--San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland
29.5%--Los Angeles-Long Beach
28.9%--New York-Newark
23.9%--Houston-Pasadena
21.6%--Las Vegas-Henderson
19.1%--Washington-Baltimore-Arlington
18.8%--Sacramento-Roseville
18.6%--Dallas-Ft Worth
18.5%--Seattle-Tacoma
17.9%--Chicago-Naperville
17.2%--Boston-Worcester-Providence
17.2%--Orlando-Lakeland-Delton
14.4%--Atlanta-Athens-Sandy Springs
13.9%--Phoenix-Mesa
11.7%--Philadelphia-Reading-Camden
9.9%---Detroit-Warren-Ann Arbor

[Crawford]

I've been to those French hypermarkets, in Metz and Reims. They aren't really that good. Europe has great boutique bakers, butchers, fruitmongers and the like, but the big box groceries aren't great. An average HEB in TX is likely better, and a Wegmans in the Northeast is much better. The hypermarket quality is maybe Costco level.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

Well, what do you typically cook at home for dinner? I would assume what most ordinary French people cook every day for dinner wouldn't be too elaborate or labor-intensive; those are usually reserved for special occasions in every culture, unless of course someone is gonna be home to cook all the time. I assume most French people work, so during the week, meals won't have too much prep and cook time, right?

I think the pictures in my previous post will have given you an idea.

Personally I don't cook that much, because like many inner Parisians I have only a tiny kitchen, it's not practical to cook. From times to times I will cook some elaborate stuff (when I lived abroad, my flatmates/friends were always amazed by my cooking skills, even though to be honest I have far less cooking skills that most French women; for men maybe I'm a little above average, for France that is), but most of the time I just reheat things that I bought in the supermarkets.

In the evening I always have vegetable soup. It's good for health, and here the supermarkets sell all sorts of vegetable organic farm soups. It's a bit pricey in Paris, but that's my intake of vegetables (don't remember how it is in America, but here they tell us constantly that we have to "eat 5 fruits and vegetables every day"). Then after soup it's a main dish, stuff I buy from supermarkets, or more elaborate dishes I prepare (I do a very good pad thai for example). I eat lots of pasta (high quality brands, not the low quality industrial stuff), with just olive oil and fresh parmiggiano cheese, it's simple, cheap, and very good for health. Then usually some French cheese with French bread, and a desert (we have LOTS of different very good dairy deserts in the supermarkets; last week I alternated between tarte tatin, crème brûlée, and Fjord, which is sort of Scandinavian yogurt, but I believe it's a French brand really... Fjord is really good).

For lunch I only eat light lunches, except for special holidays like Christmas or Easter. Usually some vegetable salad, then cured meat or pâté, cheese, and a fruit. Sometimes no cheese. All this is if I'm eating lunch at home of course.

I would describe my eating habits as "less complex and less elaborate" than the average French family, because I don't cook all that much like I've said. The average Frenchwoman will prepare a homemade quiche baked in the oven for the children. My mom prepares her soups with vegetables bought at the farmer's market (I do that from time to time too, homemade soup was the main staple in French households before the massive increases in wealth in the 1950s and 1960s, but supermarket soups have become so good now that I find there's no need to spend one hour pealing vegetables and preparing a soup). In my childhood, and I don't think it's anything extraordinary here, my mom cooked different dishes everyday. We never ate the same thing twice in 2 or 3 months. I cannot list what we ate because it was so varied. But always entrée (starter), main dish, cheese, and desert. Lunch and dinner (my parents came back from work for lunch at home). When my mom didn't have time, she would ask our cleaning lady (she came every morning) to prepare the food for her. Sometimes she asked my dad to prepare stuff, but he was a bit clumsy with food (although he was an excellent chef for a few Spanish dishes that my mom never cooked).

Whenever I go back there, I go on a splurge of cooking, due to the frustration of not being able to cook more in Paris. When you have a large kitchen, it makes the whole difference. I was there last in May, and I made lots of dishes while I was there (Jewish salad from North Africa, which is extremely time consuming to make, you have to roast the vegetables in an oven first, cover them in aluminium foil for hours, peel them, etc; I also made a clafouti, picture below, and various other stuff, a roasted guinea fowl with garlic, some homemade French fries!, etc).

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Combined Statistical Areas
Foreign-Born Population, 2024:
500,000+
6,400,697--New York-Newark
5,446,282--Los Angeles-Long Beach
2,847,372--San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland
2,769,419--Miami-Port St Lucie-Ft Lauderdale
1,915,357--Washington-Baltimore-Arlington
1,822,100--Houston-Pasadena
1,772,353--Chicago-Naperville
1,586,952--Dallas-Ft Worth
1,440,848--Boston-Worcester-Providence
1,033,251--Atlanta-Athens-Sandy Springs
926,460----Seattle-Tacoma
866,222----Philadelphia-Reading-Camden
764,407----Orlando-Lakeland-Deltona
702,259----Phoenix-Mesa
533,165----Detroit-Warren-Ann Arbor
513,760----Las Vegas-Henderson
510,733----Sacramento-Roseville

Percent of Population, Foreign-Born, 2024:
39.2%--Miami-Port St Lucie-Ft Lauderdale
31.1%--San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland
29.5%--Los Angeles-Long Beach
28.9%--New York-Newark
23.9%--Houston-Pasadena
21.6%--Las Vegas-Henderson
19.1%--Washington-Baltimore-Arlington
18.8%--Sacramento-Roseville
18.6%--Dallas-Ft Worth
18.5%--Seattle-Tacoma
17.9%--Chicago-Naperville
17.2%--Boston-Worcester-Providence
17.2%--Orlando-Lakeland-Delton
14.4%--Atlanta-Athens-Sandy Springs
13.9%--Phoenix-Mesa
11.7%--Philadelphia-Reading-Camden
9.9%---Detroit-Warren-Ann Arbor

Detroit with half a million more immigrants would be a top tier city right now.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I've been to those French hypermarkets, in Metz and Reims. They aren't really that good. Europe has great boutique bakers, butchers, fruitmongers and the like, but the big box groceries aren't great.

Yeah, sure. I don't even know what's the point of saying stupid things like that. It's like me going to NYC twice in my life and saying "all New Yorkers are fat".

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I've been to those French hypermarkets, in Metz and Reims. They aren't really that good. Europe has great boutique bakers, butchers, fruitmongers and the like, but the big box groceries aren't great. An average HEB in TX is likely better, and a Wegmans in the Northeast is much better. The hypermarket quality is maybe Costco level.

Ok, so I've asked neutral AIs. Better than your biased judgment based on brief experience (if it is real at all). American AIs mind you.

I've asked them whether the hypermarkets in France have more variety and better quality for food than US supermarkets. Bottom line: yes. But US supermarket have more variety of breakfast cereals, soft drinks, and peanut butter. I happily leave you these. (I think I last ate breakfast cereals some 20 years ago, and I never have soft drinks and awful peanut butter)

ChatGPT:













My only criticism of what ChatGPT says here is:
1- for seafood, it's not true only coastal areas in France have large selection of seafood in supermarkets; in fact even far from the sea there is a large selection, but not in Paris proper.
2- fresh bread and bakery in supermarket: they are cute to say it's high quality in French supermarkets, but for us French people we consider the bread and bakery in supermarkets to be not very good quality; only the working-classes buy their breads, croissants, pastries in supermarkets; they are much better in independent bakeries in town.

Grok (I'm not going to copy everything, but you get the idea):

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I think the pictures in my previous post will have given you an idea.

Personally I don't cook that much, because like many inner Parisians I have only a tiny kitchen, it's not practical to cook. From times to times I will cook some elaborate stuff (when I lived abroad, my flatmates/friends were always amazed by my cooking skills, even though to be honest I have far less cooking skills that most French women; for men maybe I'm a little above average, for France that is), but most of the time I just reheat things that I bought in the supermarkets.

In the evening I always have vegetable soup. It's good for health, and here the supermarkets sell all sorts of vegetable organic farm soups. It's a bit pricey in Paris, but that's my intake of vegetables (don't remember how it is in America, but here they tell us constantly that we have to "eat 5 fruits and vegetables every day"). Then after soup it's a main dish, stuff I buy from supermarkets, or more elaborate dishes I prepare (I do a very good pad thai for example). I eat lots of pasta (high quality brands, not the low quality industrial stuff), with just olive oil and fresh parmiggiano cheese, it's simple, cheap, and very good for health. Then usually some French cheese with French bread, and a desert (we have LOTS of different very good dairy deserts in the supermarkets; last week I alternated between tarte tatin, crème brûlée, and Fjord, which is sort of Scandinavian yogurt, but I believe it's a French brand really... Fjord is really good).

For lunch I only eat light lunches, except for special holidays like Christmas or Easter. Usually some vegetable salad, then cured meat or pâté, cheese, and a fruit. Sometimes no cheese. All this is if I'm eating lunch at home of course.

I would describe my eating habits as "less complex and less elaborate" than the average French family, because I don't cook all that much like I've said. The average Frenchwoman will prepare a homemade quiche baked in the oven for the children. My mom prepares her soups with vegetables bought at the farmer's market (I do that from time to time too, homemade soup was the main staple in French households before the massive increases in wealth in the 1950s and 1960s, but supermarket soups have become so good now that I find there's no need to spend one hour pealing vegetables and preparing a soup). In my childhood, and I don't think it's anything extraordinary here, my mom cooked different dishes everyday. We never ate the same thing twice in 2 or 3 months. I cannot list what we ate because it was so varied. But always entrée (starter), main dish, cheese, and desert. Lunch and dinner (my parents came back from work for lunch at home). When my mom didn't have time, she would ask our cleaning lady (she came every morning) to prepare the food for her. Sometimes she asked my dad to prepare stuff, but he was a bit clumsy with food (although he was an excellent chef for a few Spanish dishes that my mom never cooked).

Whenever I go back there, I go on a splurge of cooking, due to the frustration of not being able to cook more in Paris. When you have a large kitchen, it makes the whole difference. I was there last in May, and I made lots of dishes while I was there (Jewish salad from North Africa, which is extremely time consuming to make, you have to roast the vegetables in an oven first, cover them in aluminium foil for hours, peel them, etc; I also made a clafouti, picture below, and various other stuff, a roasted guinea fowl with garlic, some homemade French fries!, etc).

When in Paris, you might be able to source frozen roasted vegetables in a supermarket. We buy a bag of these ar Costco and they are very well prepared, and less soggy in the pan than ordinary frozen ones. That pie smells great from here…

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by montréaliste

When in Paris, you might be able to source frozen roasted vegetables in a supermarket. We buy a bag of these ar Costco and they are very well prepared, and less soggy in the pan than ordinary frozen ones.

Costco in Paris?

Anyway, this would perhaps deserve a thread of its own, but ChatGPT offered to grade the supermarkets in France, USA, and Mexico based on quality and diversity. I asked it to add several countries to compare, and I also asked it to separate Anglophone Canada from Québec, to see if there was a difference. Here is its answer. My comments below.

Grade (on a scale of 10) for the quality and diversity of food in the supermarkets/hypermarkets:

• France: 9.5 - The benchmark. Outstanding bakery, cheese, dairy, charcuterie, seafood, wine, and excellent private-label products.
• Italy: 9.2 - Superb fresh counters and deli departments, though average stores are slightly less expansive than French hypermarkets.
• Spain: 9.2 - Excellent seafood, produce, cured meats, and strong fresh-food departments.
• Belgium: 9.1 - Very strong bakery, dairy, frozen foods, and prepared foods.
• Japan: 9.1 - Exceptional freshness, seafood, prepared meals, and produce. Weaker in dairy and cheese.
• Germany: 9.0 - Excellent quality and value, although the largest hypermarkets are generally less elaborate than France's.
• Netherlands: 9.0 - Consistently high quality with strong dairy and fresh foods.
• South Korea: 9.0 - Excellent produce, seafood, prepared foods, and Korean ingredients.
• China: 8.9 - Tremendous variety of vegetables, mushrooms, tofu, seafood, and regional ingredients, but more variation in quality between chains and cities.
• Switzerland: 8.9 - Extremely high quality, but somewhat smaller stores and less breadth.
• United Kingdom: 8.8 - Huge stores with broad selection, though bakery and cheese departments are generally behind France, Italy, and Spain.
• United States: 8.8 - Enormous variety in the best chains, but average quality varies considerably depending on retailer and region.
• Australia: 8.8 - Excellent meat, dairy, produce, and wine, but less diversity than top European hypermarkets.
• Québec: 8.8 - Better bakery, cheese, dairy, charcuterie, and French-inspired prepared foods than most of Canada. Chains like IGA, Metro, and some Super C locations often have noticeably stronger fresh-food departments.
• Brazil: 8.5 - Excellent tropical produce and beef, with good bakery and regional foods, but less variety in dairy, cheese, and imported specialty products than the top European supermarkets.
• Canada (outside Québec): 8.5 - High food safety and good quality, but supermarket offerings are more standardized. Large cities have excellent multicultural selections, while average stores are less ambitious than in Western Europe.
• Portugal: 8.5 - Very good produce and seafood, but stores are generally smaller with somewhat less variety.
• New Zealand: 8.5 - Excellent fresh meat and dairy, but the smaller market limits overall choice.
• Mexico: 8.3 - Strong in Mexican ingredients, fresh produce, and tropical fruit, but more limited in bakery, cheese, dairy, and European specialty foods.

Mexico last largely aligns with my experience living in Mexico City (but then again, Mexican supermarkets are excellent for tropical fruits and vegetables).

I'm frankly skeptical about that high grade for German supermarkets. I'm not super familiar with German supermarkets, but my experience last summer in Germany with a few supermarkets did not lead me to believe they deserve a 9.0. I thought it was largely low cost, low quality chains. But then again, I have never lived there, so won't say ChatGPT is wrong, but I'm a bit skeptical...

About the UK, as I lived in the UK also, I found the British supermarkets slightly superior to the US ones (we're talking about AVERAGE supermarkets here, not high-end ones), but ChatGPT think they are equal in quality and diversity...

Québec apparently has better food quality in its supermarkets than the rest of Canada. There must be something cultural there (although Québec doesn't rank as high as the Latin countries of Europe, probably due to the general North American influence).

For Spain and Italy, I would have said Spanish supermarkets are better (larger in particular) than Italian supermarkets, but ChatGPT believes they are equal in quality and diversity. Italy will perhaps surprise you guys here, but you have to know that Italian supermarkets are considerably smaller than in France, so they don't have much variety. Lots of Italians still buy in mom's and pop's grocery stores. The largest supermarkets in Italy are in fact French chains, but there are few of them. When I was there (with a car) a large city like Verona had only ONE (French) hypermarket for the entire urban area, when a similar urban area in France would have had a dozen.

Japan lower than I would have imagined due to their reputation for high quality.

[Docere]

Total non-UK born population in home counties: 1,232,934

This includes the following unitary authorities: Bracknell Forest, Buckinghamshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Medway, Milton Keynes, Reading, Slough, Southend-on-Sea, Surrey, Thurrock, West Berkshire, Windsor and Maidenhead, Wokingham.

So around 4.8 million foreign-born in London and the home counties.

This will probably open the floodgates to "add Hamilton to Toronto!", "add Providence to Boston!", "put DC and Baltimore together!", "my metro is being shortchanged based on a technicality!"

[Docere]

Next thread I start I'm insisting on a ChatGPT-free zone...

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Yeah, sure. I don't even know what's the point of saying stupid things like that. It's like me going to NYC twice in my life and saying "all New Yorkers are fat".

Unless you're from what is now Grand Est, I'm willing to bet I've spent more time in that region than you.

Also, asserting that hypermarkets aren't exactly known for their food quality is hardly a hot take. You're claiming that industrial scale bakeries routinely produce higher quality food than family-owned small-batch enterprises, which is pretty silly.

A French boulangerie, on average, will have much higher quality products than the French version of Costco/Sams Club.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Docere

Toronto Census Metropolitan Area (2021 Census)

Immigrant population 2,862,850

How many in Hamilton CMA and Oshawa CMA as Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa has constituted one metropolitan area for decades now. To maintain statistical integrity and allow for comparison between different censuses, Statistics Canada's policy (as I'm sure you know) is to never combine CMAs even if they grow into one another.

I'm assuming it wouldn't bump the foreign born number up much, perhaps, only add another 200,000. It will be interesting to see the 2026 Census data as we had a huge immigration surge in 2023 and 2024. I wouldn't be surprised if Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa is now at 3,600,000+.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Docere

"add Hamilton to Toronto!"

Well that didn't take long...

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Detroit with half a million more immigrants would be a top tier city right now.

Imagine Detroit in 2026 if it had received even half the Mexicans that Chicago got over the past 75 years.

[Docere]

Chicago has twice as many Mexicans as New York, and more than either Dallas or Houston. And Mexicans represent a slightly higher percentage of the immigrant population in Chicago than they do in L.A.