Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW)

[Dominion301]

Presenting WS' new 7M8 Blue Jays logo jet, FIN 386, which at some point will visit YOW:

[RomanR27]

Nice - registration C-GORP if anybody wants to set alerts. Looks like it was a former Swoop paint job.

[G650ER]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Will be interesting to see what impact it has on cancellations on days with poor visibility, especially fog.

Today’s departure count: 84

Today's cancellation count (so far): 1

It’s not a real CAT II so you need special equipment, authorization and of course payment to use it. I know Porter won’t be able to take advantage of it. Another short sighted development by YOW management.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by G650ER

It’s not a real CAT II so you need special equipment, authorization and of course payment to use it. I know Porter won’t be able to take advantage of it. Another short sighted development by YOW management.

It's not YOW that is short sighted. You commented something along these lines a few months ago. I didn't bother replying then, but I will now.

1. Just because PD chose not to equip their E2s with autoland (or HUDs, assuming that option is available) doesn't mean these approaches are useless. This approach will get you down to the same DH as a conventional CAT II approach. It's definately "real", if you're properly equipped. PD isn't. That's not YOW's fault.

Even Jazz has HUD's on their Q400s and can hand fly down to CAT III minimums.

Case in point, last winter in YVR, during CAT III conditions, AC, WS and Jazz were flying in no problem when PD was diverting to YYC.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PorterAirlines/comments/1q0yegy/porter_diverted_to_yyc/

YVR has conventional CAT II and III approaches. So who's really short sighted? Autoland is an option on the E2, and PD elected not to get it. As far as I'm concerned, PD is the one that is short sighted, because they can't even take advantage of the conventional CAT III approaches at YVR, YYZ, YYC and YYT.

Also, a lot of companies have a policy to use autoland even on conventional CAT II approaches. This adds a layer of safety. PD should look at getting their planes equipped with autoland as a general principle.

Deflecting the blame and pretending SA CAT II approaches are not a real CAT II is silly. Yes, these approaches rely more on the user and it's onboard equipment to get them down to 100ft DH, but the benefit is there for the majority of YOW's operators. AC, Jazz, WS, TS, AF, etc will all benefit from this approach at YOW, because they all have either autloand or HUD. That's a fact.

2. I don't know what "payment" you are talking about. You need Transport Canada approval to fly any CAT II approach, conventional or SA, so the costs associated to fly this approach are no different if YOW had gone with a conventional CAT II approach.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

AF is a 77W and the AC 333 is in the *A livery.

They must be doing some work around gate 28, not in use today or tomorrow.

I was at YOW today and at about 13:00 local there was someone out on a genie left doing work at gate 28. Was hard to tell what from inside the terminal.

[RomanR27]

Air Canada seems to have loaded the winter schedule up until about early January.

* YOW-YVR - 2x daily (1x 223, 1x 789), nice to see the 789 sticking around this winter daily
* YOW-YYC - 1x daily (223), not running 12DEC-04JAN
* YOW-YHZ/YWG/YQB all seem status quo
* YOW-YUL/YYZ are likely still dummy equipment at least, i.e. there is no rotation scheduled for the XLR that is running on LHR

Here is the sun schedule (all on the 223). Interesting they are running MCO as they did last winter. TPA doesn't return with the smaller gauge compared to the 189-seat 7M8s, either. FLL comes in at 5x weekly. All sun flying doesn't start until mid-December now.

AC1256 YOW 0615 1007 FLL x47 eff 12DEC
AC1257 FLL 1100 1422 YOW x47 eff 12DEC

AC1261 MCO 1155 1458 YOW 4 eff 17DEC
AC1260 YOW 1605 1932 MCO 5 eff 18DEC

AC2186 YOW 1520 2000 CUN x47 eff 14DEC
AC2186 YOW 1550 2030 CUN 4 eff 17DEC
AC2187 CUN 2050 0055+1 YOW x47 eff 14DEC
AC2187 CUN 2120 0125+1 YOW 4 eff 17DEC

AC2182 YOW 0815 1400 PUJ x167 eff 11DEC
AC2183 PUJ 1455 1840 YOW x167 eff 11DEC

AC1390 YOW 1000 1420 MBJ 7 eff 13DEC
AC1391 MBJ 1520 1940 YOW 7 eff 13DEC

AC1420 YOW 0615 0950 NAS 5 eff 18DEC
AC1421 NAS 1110 1440 YOW 5 eff 18DEC

With the 223, I guess it's not as cut and dry as previous winters with the Rouge/Lynx equipment that weren't normally at YOW otherwise. Both 223 turns on YYC and YVR are scheduled as late evening arrivals eastbound and morning departures westbound, so there will be a lot of RON 223 if that schedule holds. You can see that on days x47, a 223 will be doing YOW-FLL-YOW-CUN-YOW which was typical of a "based" frame in previous years. Then there is the PUJ flights on days x167 that use a different aircraft - in recent years those would be afternoon departures similar to how CUN is timed. The MCO flight using the same timing as last year is also weird to me given they should have more flexibility with the 223 fleet than they did with the Lynx 7M8 last year - especially with the "based" frame sitting idle on Thursdays otherwise.

[RomanR27]

Porter and BA have announced a codeshare agreement, giving BA customers the opportunity to connect to 17 cities PD serves when connecting from/to their London flights to YYZ/YUL, including YOW.

https://mediacentre.britishairways.com/n...lines-announce-new-codeshare-agreement-1

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 87

Today's cancellation count (so far): 1 - AC8002 to YUL is showing on the FIDS as departed but on AC's flight status as cnld.

Gate 28 has reopened as AC 888 is assigned there tonight, AC 345 on 15 and AF 327 on 17.

@RomanR27, how does 12 weekly AC int'l sun flights on the 223 compare with last winter's 7M8 schedule?

[RomanR27]

Last winter there was, IIRC, 9x weekly sun flights (5x CUN, 3x PUJ and 1x NAS) so 1701 weekly seats per direction. 12x weekly on the 223 gives you 1644, so a modest reduction.

For Florida, 6x weekly flights is just +1 compared to last year. 822 total seats this year compared to 945 last year, again a reduction.

So overall capacity is down, with an improvement in frequency.

I'd imagine Porter has to be pleased especially with TPA not returning and MCO seeing no frequency increase. PD maintains a monopoly on the Gulf Coast from YOW, and even with reducing MCO/FLL capacity, AC isn't trying to steal any of it back.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Porter and BA have announced a codeshare agreement, giving BA customers the opportunity to connect to 17 cities PD serves when connecting from/to their London flights to YYZ/YUL, including YOW.

https://mediacentre.britishairways.com/n...lines-announce-new-codeshare-agreement-1

I wish they'd do this with AF to get a bit more frequencies going with both carriers.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

I wish they'd do this with AF to get a bit more frequencies going with both carriers.

Air France is a minority owner of Westjet.

[RomanR27]

As part of this sked change, AC has also pushed back the start of YOW-LHR service on the XLR a couple weeks (first YOW-LHR 16DEC), so the 333 will stick around until then. First eastbound flight is DEC16. Since YOW is 3x weekly (days 357 east, days 146 west), they will actually have the aircraft go back and forth without any rotation for all three flights. Since there is a break between LHR-YOW Monday and YOW-LHR on Wednesday, the aircraft will rotate to YUL Monday afternoon and come back Tuesday evening to start the "week" again. But the same frame will do all three YOW-LHR(RON)LHR-YOW round trips between Wednesday-Monday.

AC476 YOW 1325 1431 YUL 1 32Q eff 21DEC
AC476 YUL 2215 2309 YOW 2 32Q eff 22DEC

Upon closer inspection I can also see the aircraft rotation for the 223 baked in. There's an extra YYZ-YOW turn days 14, and then an extra YOW-YYZ turn days 35.

This essentially brings the aircraft in/out for the YOW-PUJ flights on days 235, and then the day 4 PUJ uses the "based" aircraft. Then the YQB-based aircraft that rotates through MCO does the Thursday evening YOW-CUN and one of YOW-FLL/NAS on Friday morning before doing YOW-MCO-YQB Friday evening.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

As part of this sked change, AC has also pushed back the start of YOW-LHR service on the XLR a couple weeks (first YOW-LHR 16DEC), so the 333 will stick around until then. First eastbound flight is DEC16. Since YOW is 3x weekly (days 357 east, days 146 west), they will actually have the aircraft go back and forth without any rotation for all three flights. Since there is a break between LHR-YOW Monday and YOW-LHR on Wednesday, the aircraft will rotate to YUL Monday afternoon and come back Tuesday evening to start the "week" again. But the same frame will do all three YOW-LHR(RON)LHR-YOW round trips between Wednesday-Monday.

AC476 YOW 1325 1431 YUL 1 32Q eff 21DEC
AC476 YUL 2215 2309 YOW 2 32Q eff 22DEC

Upon closer inspection I can also see the aircraft rotation for the 223 baked in. There's an extra YYZ-YOW turn days 14, and then an extra YOW-YYZ turn days 35.

This essentially brings the aircraft in/out for the YOW-PUJ flights on days 235, and then the day 4 PUJ uses the "based" aircraft. Then the YQB-based aircraft that rotates through MCO does the Thursday evening YOW-CUN and one of YOW-FLL/NAS on Friday morning before doing YOW-MCO-YQB Friday evening.

So on days 46, the XLR doing AC 889 is going to arrive at YOW early in the day and RON until the following morning? So I gather a second XLR will operate on the YHZ days? Seems inefficient.

Good to see the 789 to YVR back up to daily for the winter but the morning flight yields an overall capacity cut assuming the 223 holds.

[mxg308]

From Aeroroutes:

Hamilton – Calgary 25OCT26 – 05JAN27 (The airline previously did not file schedule 06JAN27 – 01APR27)
Hamilton – Cancun 26OCT26 – 31OCT26
Hamilton – Edmonton 25OCT26 – 05JAN27 (The airline previously did not file schedule 06JAN27 – 10APR27
Montreal – Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood 25OCT26 – 31OCT26
Montreal – Fort Myers 25OCT26 – 15DEC26
Ottawa – Cancun 06SEP26 – 05OCT26
Toronto City – Halifax 13OCT26 – 24OCT26

[JonToms]

Originally Posted by mxg308

From Aeroroutes:

Hamilton – Calgary 25OCT26 – 05JAN27 (The airline previously did not file schedule 06JAN27 – 01APR27)
Hamilton – Cancun 26OCT26 – 31OCT26
Hamilton – Edmonton 25OCT26 – 05JAN27 (The airline previously did not file schedule 06JAN27 – 10APR27
Montreal – Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood 25OCT26 – 31OCT26
Montreal – Fort Myers 25OCT26 – 15DEC26
Ottawa – Cancun 06SEP26 – 05OCT26
Toronto City – Halifax 13OCT26 – 24OCT26

Here is the link to the article for the full context.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/260624-pdnw26

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

So on days 46, the XLR doing AC 889 is going to arrive at YOW early in the day and RON until the following morning? So I gather a second XLR will operate on the YHZ days? Seems inefficient.

Good to see the 789 to YVR back up to daily for the winter but the morning flight yields an overall capacity cut assuming the 223 holds.

Unless they add more rotation flights via YYZ/YUL or plan on ferrying it in/out, that appears to be the plan. The XLR from YHZ is scheduled to rotate through YUL all four days it operates (YUL-YHZ RON before the YHZ-LHR flight the following day, and then LHR-YHZ-YUL the next day). I am surprised they're essentially allocating one of their shiny new XLRs to YOW-LHR and nothing else for basically the whole week.

And indeed a capacity cut on YVR. PD also seems to be doing it daily, so capacity cuts from both carriers. I was curious if AC would stick with the 321 on that route, but I'd imagine westbound in the winter that would be tight on days with strong headwinds. Once more XLRs come online, I could see that being used to get lie-flats in J across the route.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Air France is a minority owner of Westjet.

Theres also a stark difference in there strategty in Canada.
British focus on bigger, higher margin markets in Canada for their aircraft (Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver).

KLM/Air France serve 8 cities and use Canada as a hub to feed their networks in AMS and Paris (Cities served -Quebec City, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver). They also fully work with WestJet for more flights (Halifax, St. Johns and Calgary on WS metal) and fully connect.

AF/KLM are a super connector and care more about volume than margin for places like Canada and have WestJet to connect you to the 11 cities that dont fly to their hubs on their metal or Westjet Metal.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Theres also a stark difference in there strategty in Canada.
British focus on bigger, higher margin markets in Canada for their aircraft (Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver).

KLM/Air France serve 8 cities and use Canada as a hub to feed their networks in AMS and Paris (Cities served -Quebec City, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver). They also fully work with WestJet for more flights (Halifax, St. Johns and Calgary on WS metal) and fully connect.

AF/KLM are a super connector and care more about volume than margin for places like Canada and have WestJet to connect you to the 11 cities that dont fly to their hubs on their metal or Westjet Metal.

Totally correct. BA is looking for premium O&D to LHR. AF/KLM is happy to see lots of O&D to AMS or CDG, but know they can connect to the world via either of those hubs and can grab a lot of premium traffic that way.

The dude paying $500 trans-Atlantic in the back of the plane is not keeping that route alive.

I just wish YOW had DL back to help migrate people (including me) to SkyTeam. UA must love that there is no DL/AA here.

This is why BA didn't last long in YYC - Calgary. Even though YYC has lots of premium traffic... it still didn't work (WS and AC also fly n/s to LHR/LGW)

[Dominion301]

Today’s departure count: 94

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

Thursday's departure count was also 94 with 0 cancellations.

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by MountainView

Totally correct. BA is looking for premium O&D to LHR. AF/KLM is happy to see lots of O&D to AMS or CDG, but know they can connect to the world via either of those hubs and can grab a lot of premium traffic that way.

The dude paying $500 trans-Atlantic in the back of the plane is not keeping that route alive.

I just wish YOW had DL back to help migrate people (including me) to SkyTeam. UA must love that there is no DL/AA here.

This is why BA didn't last long in YYC - Calgary. Even though YYC has lots of premium traffic... it still didn't work (WS and AC also fly n/s to LHR/LGW)

British served Calgary 2006 to 2018, which is fairly long. Essentially the oil boom and walked away when there was the big crash and Westjet was getting into Transatlantic in a real way. They lost the premium traffic and had more competition on connections.

You also had Toronto and Montreal acting as real hubs, pulling people from Western Canada to connect there vs Europe.