Manitoba Highways

[bomberjet]

Re: the Perimeter. The province has a goal of making the Perimeter a freeway when Winnipeg reaches one million people. So if they want to do that, they need to get on it regardless of what the cost or timelines are. If that is unreasonable, then they shouldn't be talking about it.. haha Like ya there's shitloads of things to be done and billions of dollars. We all know that.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

https://www.merx.com/mbgov/solicitations...-for-PTH-1E-Twinning/0000323651?origin=0

Traffic availability of main works is 2033. So not too bad considering.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by Biff

The final alignment and design will be completed under this new Design Consultant contract. I believe I read for the alignment to be confirmed before the end of the year.

It does sound like they are keeping the original alignment though. The RFP speaks about the replacement of the existing interchanges...that they just spent millions upgrading.

Do you think it will be a Design Build? Is this tender for high level design like WSP did on PTH 3/PTH 100?

[bomberjet]

This is for functional design through construction support (provisionally) for the engineering team. Owners engineer. The project is being delivered by a CMAR model.

[KnickKnack]

Originally Posted by Biff

The final alignment and design will be completed under this new Design Consultant contract. I believe I read for the alignment to be confirmed before the end of the year.

It does sound like they are keeping the original alignment though. The RFP speaks about the replacement of the existing interchanges...that they just spent millions upgrading.

Did they actually upgrade those interchanges? As far as I can tell it’s the same layout just with the bridges repaired.

[Biff]

They rebuilt and widened the bridge decks on all 3.

[bomberjet]

I havent read close enough in the rfp, it seems very generic in terms of detail. but if they widened they replaced the bridge decks, I'd assume when they say re-construct, they'll reconstruct the road, ramps, etc and leave the bridge. If not, they wasted a bunch of effort.

[bomberjet]

There is this text.

3.7.1.

Base Case Design Concept

The base case assumptions in no way indicate a preference for a specific corridor alternative. The sole purpose is to provide a consistent set of assumptions on which Proponents must prepare their Proposal and for Manitoba to evaluate. Proponents must make the following assumptions in their Proposal components, e.g. schedule, Work Breakdown Structure, etc. for functional and detailed design, which will be studied and confirmed (or refuted) during alternatives analyses (see Section 6.5.6) during the functional design phase.

1. PTH 1 expansion shall occur along this existing highway corridor;

2. The additional two lanes on PTH 1 shall be constructed:
1. By widening to the north from the west end of the project to approximately 3.5km east of the PR 301 interchange structure;
2. By widening to the north from the east end of the project to approximately 0.2km west of the PR 301 flyover;
3. By transitioning to widening to the south between these two segments; and
4. With narrow/compact median widths through the Barren/Falcon Lake Pinch Point (refer to Figure 6.18 of the Conceptual Design Report) and for the PR 301 interchange.

3. The PTH 44 interchange:
1. Shall be a compact diamond configuration with roundabouts at rampterminals;
2. Shall not include connections to Lyons Lake via a service road; and
3. Shall not create a new road connection to West Hawk Boulevard.

4. The PR 301 interchange:
1. Will be located at or in close proximity to its current location; and
2. Shall be a compact diamond configuration that avoids impacting any part of the leased property to the north and any impacts to paved trails of the leased property to the south.

5. Lyons Lake shall be accessed via a new connection to West Hawk Boulevard with a low-clearance structure beneath PTH 1 (refer to drawing SKT-C0052-F of the Conceptual Design Report);

6. No dedicated wildlife structures; and

7. No traffic structure to access southeast Barren Lake cottages.

[bomberjet]

6.5. Phase 2: Functional Design

Phase 2: Functional Design includes a broader range of activities than a typical functional design study. As described below, this phase includes the verification of the conceptual design, incorporating reviews by the Construction Manager (CM), developing and scheduling Work Packages, and the completion of a functional design report.

6.5.1. Authorization

This phase begins immediately upon execution of the Agreement.

6.5.2. Concurrent Verification of Conceptual Design

The Conceptual Design Study concluded that two general alignment options should be advanced for further study:

1. "The Existing Alignment" is an expansion adjacent to the existing PTH 1 highway corridor whether widening is on the north side, south side, or changing back and forth along its length. This is the base case assumption for the purposes of consistency in the RFP bidding process. Refer to Section 3.7.1.

2. "The One-way Couplet" (OWC) that, from east to west, widens north and/or south of the existing highway identically to the Existing Corridor option, then whose two westbound lanes diverge northward west of the PR 301 flyover through a Northern Corridor that passes north of Barren Lake and rejoins the Existing Corridor near the Freedom Road intersection.

Per Project priorities noted in Sections 2.8 and 6.1.3, concurrently to proceeding with the base case assumption of four-laning along the existing PTH 1 corridor the ESP shall confirm conceptual design conclusions with additional design and site investigations. Conclusions requiring confirmation include:

1. PR 301 (western) interchange location (Freedom Road or Falcon Lake townsite location) and conceptual configurations; and
2. Cross-section, plan, and profile design at the Barren Lake/Falcon Lake Pinch Point.

Supplemental site investigations are required for:

3. Geotechnical investigations at the Barren Lake/Falcon Lake Pinch Point; and
4. Geotechnical and environmental investigation of the One-way Couplet alignment.

[bomberjet]

6.5.6. Alternatives Development & Analysis
6.5.6.1. Design Components Requiring Alternatives Analysis

Project elements that require alternatives development, analysis, and recommendation include, but are not limited to, the following:

1. Alignment alternatives reflecting the recommendations of the Conceptual Design Study
a. The Existing Corridor alternative that adds two additional lanes adjacent to the two existing lanes regardless of the widening strategy as discussed in #2 below.
b. The One-way Couplet (OWC) alternative using the existing corridor for eastbound traffic and constructing a new corridor north of Barren Lake for westbound traffic, extending approximately from the PR 301 flyover and Freedom Road.

2. Existing corridor expansion alternatives
a. An expansion strategy where the western and eastern segments of PTH 1 are widened to the north, and the middle segment-approximately from Barren Lake to the PR 301 flyover area-widened to the south, with two sub-alternatives for this easternmost transition that may be influenced by design decisions regarding minimum desirable horizontal curve radii:
i. In the area of the horizontal curve west of the PR 301 flyover; or
ii. In the area of the horizontal curve east of the PR 301 flyover.
b. Expanding PTH 1 to the north along the entire corridor, including with a causeway through Barren Lake;

3. Interchange configurations
a. PTH 44 interchange configuration including potential access to West Hawk Boulevard;
b. PR 301 interchange configuration, including a set of alternatives at the townsite location and a set of alternatives if the interchange is relocated to Freedom Road;
c. At both interchanges, the base case shall be an optimized diamond configuration. Due to site constraints, MTI's Diamond Interchange Design Drawings cannot be used without modifications.

4. Intersection configurations assuming a base case of roundabout control at all locations where more than a two-way stop control is warranted, including at interchange ramps;

5. PR 301 alternatives including flyovers and additional highway egress off-ramps (e.g., PTH 1 eastbound off-ramp-only to PR 301 for Faloma/Toniata access);

6. Interchange cross-sections that accommodate all users;

7. Barren Lake/Falcon Lake Pinch Point
a. Cross-section design alternatives including optimizing inside shoulder width along the tall-wall barrier median;
b. Alignment alternatives of PTH 1;
c. Alternatives for mitigating impacts on nearby cottages; and
d. Right-in-right-out design alternatives for the SE Barren Lake cottages including on-ramps and off-ramps with and without a weaving section.

5. PR 301 / Falcon Boulevard / South Shore Road intersection system in the Falcon Lake townsite;

6. A preliminary geotechnical report for mitigation of sites with known geotechnical issues as noted in Section 6.5.10.3.2, including Class C Capital Cost Estimates (as opposed to Class D for most alternative analyses).

7. Major highway structures including designs to reduce the bridge elevation in order to reduce the tie-in lengths of raised highway profiles, MSE wall extents, and embankment settlement.

8. Design strategies for high-fill embankments in thick peat areas to optimize construction and settlement timelines in the context of a CMAR delivery method with the ability to create multiple work packages, including:
a. Slope stabilization sub-alternatives; and
b. MSE walls, particularly for the PR 301 interchange location alternative at the townsite.

9. Major drainage structures and, as applicable, river training alternatives;

10. Wildlife crossing requirements, and alternatives including:
a. Upsizing of drainage structures; and
b. That no wildlife crossing is required;

11. Access to Lyons Lake from both West Hawk Boulevard (due north of Lyons Lake) and the reconfigured PTH 44 interchange;

12. Profile alternatives in areas of steep sag curves (e.g., at Lyons Lake);

13. Active transportation facility alternatives throughout the project including safe and comfortable crossings that separate motorized traffic from non-motorized traffic, and also cross-section/alignment/profile alternatives at the Barren Lake/Falcon Lake Pinch Point;

14. Noise mitigation alternatives; and

15. Phasing alternatives for interim configurations, including:
a. An interim option considering deferring one or more existing highway traffic structures.

[bomberjet]

I'll try to fix some of the formatting. That text is all copied form the RFP using AI as the RFP is locked and unable to copy directly from the PDF.. Note the RFP is 314 pages long lol

In general. Either on existing alignment, or a couplet with WB lanes going north of Barren Lake.

All interchanges seem to be compact diamonds. Possibly move the Falcon interchange location to Freedom Road.

Throughpass for Lyon's Lake access. Not sure yet about the south end of Barren Lake cottages.

[Mr Tall Forehead]

Very cool. Thanks for going through the effort to copy/paste/format all that!

I was wondering what the plan would be for accessing Lyon Lake, but going under the highway and accessing it from West Hawk Blvd seems like a good solution.

I'm having a hard time picturing how there will be room for all that's being described at the Barron/Falcon pinch point. Not sure how they will fit in four lanes of PTH 1, two lanes of PR 301, plus right in right out for the Barron cottages.

[bomberjet]

There's some text that talks about interchanges only. Then in the next line about intersections. But for the most part it seems like the stretch of highway will be a freeway. We'll see what they come up with for the Barren Lake south access.

I don't mind the couplet idea. It will alleviate the space constraints long the Falcon stretch. The Falcon interchange should/would be moved to freedom road. Then either an access road along the current highway frontage. Or use the back access to Falcon Lake as the new main access. IMO the Falcon interchange should be moved there regardless of which option goes ahead.

[Carboy15]

https://youtu.be/2cHnLpIhE0s

Speaking of which, Northern Ontario is getting started on their 2+1. Yay!

[BorealLynx]

Originally Posted by Carboy15

https://youtu.be/2cHnLpIhE0s

Speaking of which, Northern Ontario is getting started on their 2+1. Yay!

While I definitely see 2+1 as a viable option for lower-volume stretches of highway, I am hoping that this doesn't become a cheap replacement for a properly twinned Trans Canada Highway from coast to coast. So for example, if Hwy 17 is determined to be the primary TCH route connecting East to West, then 2+1 would be a good option for Hwy 11, and vice versa. But Canada needs a primary highway running from coast to coast with at least a minimum 4-lane standard. Preferably a freeway ("interstate-grade") with limited access and grade-separated interchanges the entire length, but 4 lanes at a minimum. One highway - that is all I am asking for.

I really hope that 2+1 isn't a cop-out, or settling for second-best.

And to those who bring up the highways in Sweden and Norway, first of all those are very mountainous countries - think interior BC. But more importantly, the north-south divide in these countries is more like connecting Thompson/Churchill to Winnipeg or James Bay to Sudbury. Canada's population is split east-west, separated by Northern Ontario, and to a lesser extent, the Rockies. Roughly 15 million people live West of Lake Superior, and 25 million East. There is no parallel in Norway or Sweden. The TCH literally connects two halves of a nation; it glues them together.

For the average Canadian looking to travel from one half of the country to the other, flying is expensive, and train travel is non-existent. Like it or not, the highway is the primary means of travel. Same for most commercial traffic - flying is far too expensive, and rail is only really viable for large-volume commodities. The rest is sent by truck on the TCH.

Seriously, I am baffled by how upgrading the TCH from a 2-lane path doesn't instantly qualify as a "Nation-Building" project. It literally holds this country together!

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by BorealLynx

While I definitely see 2+1 as a viable option for lower-volume stretches of highway, I am hoping that this doesn't become a cheap replacement for a properly twinned Trans Canada Highway from coast to coast. So for example, if Hwy 17 is determined to be the primary TCH route connecting East to West, then 2+1 would be a good option for Hwy 11, and vice versa. But Canada needs a primary highway running from coast to coast with at least a minimum 4-lane standard. Preferably a freeway ("interstate-grade") with limited access and grade-separated interchanges the entire length, but 4 lanes at a minimum. One highway - that is all I am asking for.

I really hope that 2+1 isn't a cop-out, or settling for second-best.

And to those who bring up the highways in Sweden and Norway, first of all those are very mountainous countries - think interior BC. But more importantly, the north-south divide in these countries is more like connecting Thompson/Churchill to Winnipeg or James Bay to Sudbury. Canada's population is split east-west, separated by Northern Ontario, and to a lesser extent, the Rockies. Roughly 15 million people live West of Lake Superior, and 25 million East. There is no parallel in Norway or Sweden. The TCH literally connects two halves of a nation; it glues them together.

For the average Canadian looking to travel from one half of the country to the other, flying is expensive, and train travel is non-existent. Like it or not, the highway is the primary means of travel. Same for most commercial traffic - flying is far too expensive, and rail is only really viable for large-volume commodities. The rest is sent by truck on the TCH.

Seriously, I am baffled by how upgrading the TCH from a 2-lane path doesn't instantly qualify as a "Nation-Building" project. It literally holds this country together!

In your case, I recommend emailing Eric Malillo (MP) while copying Greg Rickford (MPP) on that email (since the former helped the latter on election campaigns before, which might be helpful for a potential federal-provincial collaboration), citing the recent 2 incidents on that stretch of Highway 17.
Carney has a majority now, but he might still listen (if Malillo brings that up).

[BorealLynx]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

In your case, I recommend emailing Eric Malillo (MP) while copying Greg Rickford (MPP) on that email (since the former helped the latter on election campaigns before, which might be helpful for a potential federal-provincial collaboration), citing the recent 2 incidents on that stretch of Highway 17.
Carney has a majority now, but he might still listen (if Malillo brings that up).

The last time I spoke with Melillo personally, he told me that highways "were a Provincial responsibility". And I would much rather harass Rickford about broken promises regarding the twinning of Hwy 17 from the MB border to Kenora. Nothing but crickets these days.

[bomberjet]

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mti/projects.html

There's also been a few updates on the Project Information page for PTH 1E, PTH 59 Twinning, McGillivray Interchange construction update. Very generic at this point.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by BorealLynx

The last time I spoke with Melillo personally, he told me that highways "were a Provincial responsibility". And I would much rather harass Rickford about broken promises regarding the twinning of Hwy 17 from the MB border to Kenora. Nothing but crickets these days.

Melillo used to be more vocal during JT’s days. I wonder if he just gave up because JT and crew (especially Steven Guilbault) wouldn’t listen.
The time has changed.
As for Rickford, yea lately he was in Geraldton celebrating the beginning of the Ring of Fire project (although some locals said that it was nothing more than repaving the main street of Geraldton). Sure bug him more when he’s back in Kenora.

[bomberjet]

Is ring of Fire actually starting? I've heard whispers about it, and that our Thunder Bay office is doing some work. But like haven't heard what's actually going on in terms of the mining and such.