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  #4741  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 7:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCowboyCoffee View Post
This marks the first time the estimated population difference between the Chicago and DFW areas have become <1 million.

Population difference between Chicago / DFW metro areas:
2020: 1,768,555
2021: 1,587,651
2022: 1,330,499
2023: 1,171,781
2024: 1,057,598
2025: 956,966
Indeed, Chicago might lose the #3 spot for MSA a Census cycle before the city proper ranking. Similar percentage gaps right now, but MSA is closing much faster.
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  #4742  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't think the fires are relevant. You see the losses outside of the fire zones too.
Agreed, immigration to LA dropped by 67% between 2024 and 2025.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/26/us/politics/us-census-county-immigration.html

This is a nationwide issue that literally affected every metro area.
.
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  #4743  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 7:34 PM
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I now think it's likely that Dallas MSA surpasses Chicago MSA before Dallas slows down.

But it's kind of an absurd stat, given the on-the-ground differences and where the growth is happening.
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  #4744  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 7:42 PM
JoninATX JoninATX is offline
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I posted this on another site. While DFW does have ways before eclipsing Chicago, San Antonio is about to surpass St. Louis if it hasn't already.

2025 estimates
St. Louis, MO–IL — 2,814,421
San Antonio–New Braunfels, TX — 2,813,140
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  #4745  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 8:15 PM
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Losing 16,000 homes is definitely impacting greater LA’s population, but agreed that the steep decline in immigration is the bigger factor.
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  #4746  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I now think it's likely that Dallas MSA surpasses Chicago MSA before Dallas slows down.

But it's kind of an absurd stat, given the on-the-ground differences and where the growth is happening.
Growth is growth though and unlike Chicago, DFW has always been multimodal hence why Dallas's CBD is pretty meh given its size and prominence. Same with Houston and LA.
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  #4747  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kittyhawk28 View Post
Not as much though, fires absolutely had an impact. LA County would have still declined from lower immigration, but closer to -20~30K in line with other places instead. We dont have precise data of course, but considering how the Census Bureau does their estimates, I wouldn't be surprised if they accounted for housing units destroyed by the fire
Maybe for Altadena, but I believe the Palisades residents went to other LA neighborhoods. Palisades residents generally can afford other neighborhoods, Altadena fires put more of those people at risk ,temporarily.

Its the cost that's screwing LA County up, same thing is now happening to Miami's metro.
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  #4748  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 9:18 PM
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Ya know, for all the millions that have left, California has done a fairly good job at replacing most of them...



-------POPULATION 2020----2025-----2020-2025 Growth
Southern CA--24,231,682-24,020,500---211,182--0.86%
Northern CA--15,296,126-15,334,809---+38,683--+0.25%

California---39,527,808-39,355,309---172,499--0.43%
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  #4749  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoninATX View Post
I posted this on another site. While DFW does have ways before eclipsing Chicago, San Antonio is about to surpass St. Louis if it hasn't already.

2025 estimates
St. Louis, MO–IL — 2,814,421
San Antonio–New Braunfels, TX — 2,813,140
I found this interesting. San Antonio MSA now only has 192,195 more people than the Austin MSA, which is less than 7% larger.

San Antonio - 2,813,140
Austin - 2,620,945
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  #4750  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
I found this interesting. San Antonio MSA now only has 192,195 more people than the Austin MSA, which is less than 7% larger.

San Antonio - 2,813,140
Austin - 2,620,945
I’m not sure growth alone will get Austin above San Antonio by 2030. Austin MSA will need to add Milam, Lee, and Burnet counties to surpass San Antonio MSA within the next 10 years—and their commuter stats have hovered just beneath the required rate for the last twenty years. Milam and Lee will almost certainly be added when the Taylor Samsung plant is fully staffed.

Let’s assume their growth rates for the last half of the decade are the same as the first half (a “best case” scenario, and probably dubious given the immigration collapse):

2030:

Austin: ~3,008,000
San Antonio: ~3,094,000

But then… project the same derived growth rate for the entire decade to the next decade:

2040:

Austin: ~3,454,000
San Antonio: ~3,403,000

It could happen, but with the immigration collapse I’m not sure growth rates will stay high—and if they don’t, growth alone will not be enough for Austin to surpass San Antonio. It’ll need to add geography.

I think a more realistic scenario is something like 1.9% Austin / 1.45% San Antonio annualized through 2030 and then 1.6%/1.2% thru 2040:

That would put Austin at 3.38m in 2040 and San Antonio at 3.39m. Which is.. a year away from being surpassed.
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Houston: 2.4m (+3.9%) + MSA suburbs: 5.4m (+12%) + CSA exurbs: 200k (+5%)
Dallas: 1.3m (+2%) / FtW: 1.0m (+10%) + suburbs: 6.4m (9%) + exurbs: 566k (+9%)
San Antonio: 1.5m (+6%) + MSA suburbs: 1.2m (+10%) + CSA exurbs: 82k (+3%)
Austin: 994k (+3%) + MSA suburbs: 1.6m (+18%)
Texas (whole): 31.29m (+7%) / Texas (balance): 8.6m (+3%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Mar 26, 2026 at 10:41 PM.
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  #4751  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
I’m not sure growth alone will get Austin above San Antonio. Austin MSA will need to add Milam, Lee, and Burnet counties to surpass San Antonio MSA within the next 20-30 years—and their commuter stats have hovered just beneath the required rate for the last twenty years. Milam and Lee will almost certainly be added when the Taylor Samsung plant is fully staffed.
Austin has been adding 10K-15K more than San Antonio annually. I believe it's very possible by the 2040 census, which is only 15 years away, Austin could surpass San Antonio's population.
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  #4752  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
Austin has been adding 10K-15K more than San Antonio annually. I believe it's very possible by the 2040 census, which is only 15 years away, Austin could surpass San Antonio's population.
Agreed. I’d put the last possible year San Antonio might eke out a lead as 2040.
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Houston: 2.4m (+3.9%) + MSA suburbs: 5.4m (+12%) + CSA exurbs: 200k (+5%)
Dallas: 1.3m (+2%) / FtW: 1.0m (+10%) + suburbs: 6.4m (9%) + exurbs: 566k (+9%)
San Antonio: 1.5m (+6%) + MSA suburbs: 1.2m (+10%) + CSA exurbs: 82k (+3%)
Austin: 994k (+3%) + MSA suburbs: 1.6m (+18%)
Texas (whole): 31.29m (+7%) / Texas (balance): 8.6m (+3%)
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  #4753  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 11:09 PM
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I hate the census website. Can someone please post a link to download the latest tables (particularly metro and micropolitan areas)?
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  #4754  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2026, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I don't think the fires are relevant. You see the losses outside of the fire zones too.

LA (and many other metros) won't start growing again until 2029. Most metros need immigration for growth, and there likely won't be any until 2029.
That will be big. Chicago had never had a negative decade and we speak non-stop about its stagnation for almost 20 years now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I now think it's likely that Dallas MSA surpasses Chicago MSA before Dallas slows down.

But it's kind of an absurd stat, given the on-the-ground differences and where the growth is happening.
At this pace, only by 2040 Census. And that's a lot of time into the future. Dallas might slow down a lot on the next 14 years.
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  #4755  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2026, 12:12 AM
JoninATX JoninATX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
I found this interesting. San Antonio MSA now only has 192,195 more people than the Austin MSA, which is less than 7% larger.

San Antonio - 2,813,140
Austin - 2,620,945
The gap is quickly closing. I honestly think that Austin feels larger now considering how much the area sprawls out. San Antonio feels more compact as most of it's population lives in Bexar County.
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  #4756  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2026, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plinko View Post
I hate the census website. Can someone please post a link to download the latest tables (particularly metro and micropolitan areas)?
https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-...o-and-micro-statistical-areas.html#v2025
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  #4757  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2026, 2:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Growth is growth though and unlike Chicago, DFW has always been multimodal hence why Dallas's CBD is pretty meh given its size and prominence. Same with Houston and LA.
Houston and LA are singular cities, while DFW consists of two cities which sprawled together, so I don't think they're similar. Houston is smaller than DFW but feels bigger. Similarly, if DFW passes Chicago, it will still feel a lot smaller. Hell, DC is technically bigger than Chicago now by CSA, but likely won't be a bigger "city", ever.
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  #4758  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2026, 2:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Houston is smaller than DFW but feels bigger.
Agreed.
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  #4759  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2026, 3:41 AM
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Wow!
Not only will DFW metro pass Chicago metro very soon, it’s making a run to catch up to LA metro in a few years.
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  #4760  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2026, 4:19 AM
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Originally Posted by DFW View Post
Wow!
Not only will DFW metro pass Chicago metro very soon, it’s making a run to catch up to LA metro in a few years.
A few years? In what world?
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