OC Transpo

[ponyboycurtis]

I'm sure several of you saw this post on Reddit this morning.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/is...commute-kanata-south-to-downtown-ottawa/

I had an audible chuckle when the writer says the location where they boarded the bus.

Eagleson Road and Cope Drive

Cope drive? are you kidding me?

A 61 minute best case ride to Tunneys sounds awful. I'm glad I don't have a normal job. Checking the weather forecast to wake up an hour early to pray everything goes smoothly.

That second picture in the article looks terrible. Single car train comes in that is likely packed and has to disembark everyone in the same area. Single car trains means we lose the proper ingress and egress of the 2 staircases.

Not only did we get a Chevrolet... we got the Chevette.

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

I'm sure several of you saw this post on Reddit this morning.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/is...commute-kanata-south-to-downtown-ottawa/

I had an audible chuckle when the writer says the location where they boarded the bus.

Eagleson Road and Cope Drive

Cope drive? are you kidding me?

A 61 minute best case ride to Tunneys sounds awful. I'm glad I don't have a normal job. Checking the weather forecast to wake up an hour early to pray everything goes smoothly.

That second picture in the article looks terrible. Single car train comes in that is likely packed and has to disembark everyone in the same area. Single car trains means we lose the proper ingress and egress of the 2 staircases.

Not only did we get a Chevrolet... we got the Chevette.

We got the Canadian special - Acadian

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by skyscraperaccount

We got the Canadian special - Acadian

God how could I forgot about that. Reaching across the isle, one of my best friends growing up had a Dodge Omni. I can't decide which one is worse. Probably the Bowtie. As rough as that era of Chrysler group cars were to look at they were somewhat reliable.

I wonder if there is something they can do to make loading and unloading the train better for everyone. I'm not sure why they got rid of those sticker on the ground to line up with the train doors. They were actually quite helpful because if you are courteous are allow everyone to get off it was still helpful to know exactly where to stand ahead of time and not jostle around after the fact.

I wonder if it would be easier if they put a divider on the platform. Train stops at start of platform, deboards, pulls forward and loads. That would probably never work in actuality. But given the long dwell time I'm not sure it would impact the schedule and may make the process a little more comfy.

I'm just saying.. there are creative solutions to these problems. Some sandwich boards or hanging signs indicating embark/disembark. I don't think its something that could be rigidly enforced. It would require announcements on the train and in the station.

Is it for sure they only run single train cars right now all day long? I can't keep track anymore.. double car set then a single car set follow and then the timings change after "peak" hours because nobody uses the train at 6:01 pm and so on.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

I wonder if there is something they can do to make loading and unloading the train better for everyone.

Send OC Owl out daily to bully people at Tunney's, Hurdman, and Blair.

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

God how could I forgot about that. Reaching across the isle, one of my best friends growing up had a Dodge Omni. I can't decide which one is worse. Probably the Bowtie. As rough as that era of Chrysler group cars were to look at they were somewhat reliable.

Oh...OMNI had the GLH with 0-6 of under 7 seconds! (lol)

[lrt's friend]

Interview on CFRA right now. The guy from Orleans explained that the switch from express to rail doubled commute times and then the New Way to Bus meant that the local bus no longer went to Blair. He.was exasperated by how much transit had deteriorated We have thrown out most people going to work by transit. When do we spend money to make transit both reliable and timely? We have thrown out everything we learned in the 1970s and 1980s and lied to public about the benefits of rail. When were we told that rail would make commutes much worse?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Interview on CFRA right now. The guy from Orleans explained that the switch from express to rail doubled commute times and then the New Way to Bus meant that the local bus no longer went to Blair. He.was exasperated by how much transit had deteriorated We have thrown out most people going to work by transit. When do we spend money to make transit both reliable and timely? We have thrown out everything we learned in the 1970s and 1980s and lied to public about the benefits of rail. When were we told that rail would make commutes much worse?

To be honest, sometimes it takes a crisis to get improvement. I'm kind of hoping that traffic and transit are getting to the point where average people are demanding the investments that we need.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

To be honest, sometimes it takes a crisis to get improvement. I'm kind of hoping that traffic and transit are getting to the point where average people are demanding the investments that we need.

Most people who have quit transit will not come back. The crisis is today and traffic simply means avoiding trips that are optional. This is not good for the economy. Downtown is the big loser. I don't go there anymore. Actually, i avoid many places in the suburbs as well depending on the time of day where transit is not a reasonable option and never will be. Look at Line 2. South of South Keys, it runs through the bush, and stops no. where of interest unless you have a car in the parking lot.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Interview on CFRA right now. The guy from Orleans explained that the switch from express to rail doubled commute times and then the New Way to Bus meant that the local bus no longer went to Blair. He.was exasperated by how much transit had deteriorated We have thrown out most people going to work by transit. When do we spend money to make transit both reliable and timely? We have thrown out everything we learned in the 1970s and 1980s and lied to public about the benefits of rail. When were we told that rail would make commutes much worse?

It's hard to believe that rail alone has "doubled" peoples' commutes. You're telling me a linear transfer to a rail line that largely comes every 5 minutes doubled your commute? Yeah right.

People have evidently taken bus service (and the cost of providing it) for granted. Bus services have been cut repeatedly and longer waits for buses will inevitably add to travel times. Like it or not though, the council elected by the residents of Ottawa have no interest in restoring bus service levels. It would only cost us tens of millions of dollars a year to start bringing back the old levels of bus service, so why don't we?

But please, keep going on and on about how "rail" is the cause of long commutes.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

It's hard to believe that rail alone has "doubled" peoples' commutes. You're telling me a linear transfer to a rail line that largely comes every 5 minutes doubled your commute? Yeah right.

People have evidently taken bus service (and the cost of providing it) for granted. Bus services have been cut repeatedly and longer waits for buses will inevitably add to travel times. Like it or not though, the council elected by the residents of Ottawa have no interest in restoring bus service levels. It would only cost us tens of millions of dollars a year to start bringing back the old levels of bus service, so why don't we?

But please, keep going on and on about how "rail" is the cause of long commutes.

Why do talk this way? Can you not figure out when I talk about rail, I am talking about rail and the connecting bus service? I am also not talking about politucs. The service simply deteriorated massively in the last 10 years. Part of this ties in with undelivered promises in 2019 and abandonnent by riders en mass because of it. Also, the current mess with lack trains, buses, opérators and mechanics. That is not politucs. Blâme lies every where and there is bad luck as well.

Why do you disbélieve a riders expérience. When it now takes two buses to reach rail, why is there a doubt that commute times have doubled?

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why do talk this way? Can you not figure out when I talk about rail, I am talking about rail and the connecting bus service? I am also not talking about politucs. The service simply deteriorated massively in the last 10 years. Part of this ties in with undelivered promises in 2019 and abandonnent by riders en mass because of it. Also, the current mess with lack trains, buses, opérators and mechanics. That is not politucs. Blâme lies every where and there is bad luck as well.

Why do you disbélieve a riders expérience. When it now takes two buses to reach rail, why is there a doubt that commute times have doubled?

Currently its 1:19 expected travel time from my house to Parliament hill during rush hour for one bus and one LRT (including walk to and from end point to destination)
In the past, when rush hour express busses where a thing, my recollection is it was 55 minutes and 1 bus from my house to downtown (including walk to and from end points to destination)
Biking is 1:00 (and i'm breaking the speed limit for the MUP by 20%) and I choose to do that when the MUP isn't covered in snow.

So discounting my biking, a rush hour commute for me has gone from 55 to 79 minutes with the introduction of LRT and the shit show they've made of the busses. My data point is my own and only covers rush hour commute.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why do talk this way? Can you not figure out when I talk about rail, I am talking about rail and the connecting bus service?

It's an odd way to frame the issue when most of the delays/cancellations/long transfers/longer travel times come from the bus side of the system, not rail. I know that the buses feed into the rail, but it's the buses that need fixing. So why is rail still the centerpiece of the discussion?

I am also not talking about politucs. The service simply deteriorated massively in the last 10 years. Part of this ties in with undelivered promises in 2019 and abandonnent by riders en mass because of it. Also, the current mess with lack trains, buses, opérators and mechanics. That is not politucs. Blâme lies every where and there is bad luck as well.

As I said, whether you like it or not, much of this is the direct result of political decisions around transit.

How did we end up with a lack of buses, operators, and mechanics? Would you suggest that a decade of austerity-driven policy has nothing to do with it?

Why do you disbélieve a riders expérience. When it now takes two buses to reach rail, why is there a doubt that commute times have doubled?

I don't doubt that commutes have gotten longer, but I think it's unhelpful for people to keep focusing their blame on "rail" while their bus service continues to deteriorate. Our rail system isn't going anywhere, so let's focus on the buses again?

I've read enough of your posts to know what you "mean" when you talk about rail, but "I mean something else when I talk about this thing" is just such a poor form of expressing anything.

[lrt's friend]

But rail is a problem as well. If it wasn't, we would not be running single car trains with no hope of opening the now complete east extension in the near future.

it is very apparent the result of political austerity so why prevent this message going to a public forum. I am slightly heartened that councillors have been featured on this week's CTV series on this subject.

The real problem is that the city finances are in poor shape across the board. Basic services are suffering. It is not just transit that is facing austerity. I have been directly impacted.

[skyscraperaccount]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

But rail is a problem as well. If it wasn't, we would not be running single car trains with no hope of opening the now complete east extension in the near future.

it is very apparent the result of political austerity so why prevent this message going to a public forum. I am slightly heartened that councillors have been featured on this week's CTV series on this subject.

The real problem is that the city finances are in poor shape across the board. Basic services are suffering. It is not just transit that is facing austerity. I have been directly impacted.

The fact we wont even be able to run express trains grinds my gears.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by phil235

To be honest, sometimes it takes a crisis to get improvement. I'm kind of hoping that traffic and transit are getting to the point where average people are demanding the investments that we need.

People will demand an end to transit before they demand better transit.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The real problem is that the city finances are in poor shape across the board.

And that's almost entirely a self-inflicted problem in Ottawa, and in other cities, that for most of this century so far have boasted about keeping property tax increases below inflation.

What did they think would happen?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by skyscraperaccount

The fact we wont even be able to run express trains grinds my gears.

I spoke to at least one city councillor about express trains knowing that stopping at every station could not compete with express buses. This was during the planning phase like 15 years ago. A third track that would bypass mostly residential stations in the peak direction. Surely a train every 10 minutes at Cyrville is enough and you would not need to expand the downtown tunnel as every train would stop at each station in the tunnel.

I was looked at like I had grown horns. No clue of what I was talking about and no consideration of what a train running from Stittsville to Cumberland stopping at every station would be like in comparison with the express bus system that was moving 10000s of passengers per day. We have now sacrificed them.

This city had no vision beyond building rail the cheapest way possible.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And that's almost entirely a self-inflicted problem in Ottawa, and in other cities, that for most of this century so far have boasted about keeping property tax increases below inflation.

What did they think would happen?

This mostly started with Larry O'Brien who promised to run the city like a business with no tax increases. The 2006 election was a circus with other prominent Conservatives intervening. What happened led the city into a downward spiral. Sure, O'Brien started some good projects but he started an austerity agenda that each subsequent mayor used to get elected. Transit was the biggest sacrifice as O'Brien attacked transit with a pointless shutdown in 2008-2009 which slowly began the start of a loss of public confidence. The public were suckered into a too good to be true scheme during the 2006 election. I was personally 'too stupid' to buy it but now we see the results. We are losing more money on transit austerity than we ever gained. Buses in the suburbs run at a bigger loss than ever before when we used to have standing room only buses and an express surcharge. People are willing to pay for good service.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

But rail is a problem as well. If it wasn't, we would not be running single car trains with no hope of opening the now complete east extension in the near future.

But that's a completely different problem... We know that the city is actively working to force a solution to all of the operational problems we have with our rail system, but you can't say the same for the bus system.

it is very apparent the result of political austerity so why prevent this message going to a public forum. I am slightly heartened that councillors have been featured on this week's CTV series on this subject.

Some of the same councillors who led us into this mess? You sure are easily impressed.

The real problem is that the city finances are in poor shape across the board. Basic services are suffering. It is not just transit that is facing austerity. I have been directly impacted.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I spoke to at least one city councillor about express trains knowing that stopping at every station could not compete with express buses. This was during the planning phase like 15 years ago. A third track that would bypass mostly residential stations in the peak direction. Surely a train every 10 minutes at Cyrville is enough and you would not need to expand the downtown tunnel as every train would stop at each station in the tunnel.

I was looked at like I had grown horns. No clue of what I was talking about and no consideration of what a train running from Stittsville to Cumberland stopping at every station would be like in comparison with the express bus system that was moving 10000s of passengers per day. We have now sacrificed them.

This city had no vision beyond building rail the cheapest way possible.

On one hand you keep insisting that the city's finances are in poor shape across the board such that nothing will be done to address the issues in the bus network, but on the other hand you think spending hundreds of millions more to build a third track on our rail system could have and should have been justified..?

There's no consistency here.

[lrt's friend]

Um, things have changed a great deal in 15 years regarding civic finances. Regardless, it does not cost significant money to investigate possibilities. Express trains were never considered neither was the time cost of having every train stop at every station. We all now know that running trains from Stittsville to Trim will never be time competitive with the old 90 series buses, not even close. This is part of the 1.5 to 2 hour commute time problem.

I am tired of this debate about train problems versus bus problems The siloed operation of OC is also a problem. This came up years ago at public meetings. It was disgraceful that OC did not really have a unified plan to deliver good service and properly coordinating buses and trains. This was obvious when the new bus plan was implemented in October 2019. It was also obvious when Line 2 reopened with new bus service. There is simply no political will to make the whole system work. Transit riders and taxpayers all lose.