BC Political Discussion: Election 2024 & 43rd Parliament

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Buddy, this change amounts to joining an existing time zone: Yukon.

Also part of northern BC already does this. If anything it'll make time in BC more consistent.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I think you might be the only person I've heard not excited about this. It's pretty universally liked from what I can see.

Personally I'm ecstatic to not have to drive home from work at 430 in the pitch dark next winter.

Hope California pulls their heads out of their asses and approves this soon too so we aren't out of step for too long.

Yeah everyone I've talked to is excited about it (including a neighbour in her 80s who practically started doing a happy dance when I told her the news).

The problem I've had with this from the beginning has been waiting on US States to do it as well. In the US time is decided at the Federal level (aka California can't just change to one time all year) and good luck getting them to agree to it - esp now...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Seems like everybody was waiting for everybody else to make the first move. To paraphrase a one-legged runner from Port Coq, "why not us?"

[WarrenC12]

I like the idea, but I would have preferred maintaining the standard time option, which seems to be what most other jurisdictions have done, and what the "experts" recommend.

December in Vancouver will see light from 9-5 instead of 8-4, which would be more appropriate for school kids IMO.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I like the idea, but I would have preferred maintaining the standard time option, which seems to be what most other jurisdictions have done, and what the "experts" recommend.

December in Vancouver will see light from 9-5 instead of 8-4, which would be more appropriate for school kids IMO.

I've noticed that the BCNDP seem to be listening to experts less and are taking a bit of a "vibes" based governing approach. See: The health minister ignoring the recommendation of our domestic healthcare advisory committees to not spend $1m a year on US alternative medicine and instead listening to social media.

"Vibes" based governing took down the NDP in the 90s (fast ferries), and I suppose it will take them down again this time.

I personally prefer to see light 9-5 as a 9-5 office worker, but as soon as someone pointed out that we're dooming school kids to darkness going to school in the morning all winter I realised this was a terrible idea. The BCNDP probably realises that office workers vote and children don't vote.

[madog222]

It seems most, if not all, US states that have legislation to change to permanent time are to change to permanent DST. This includes Washington, Oregon, and California.

I prefer keeping DST, it brings sunrise and sunset more evenly aligned with the hours most people are active even if it does deviate from proper solar time. Sure, a 9am winter sunrise will be weird, but I much prefer that over 4am in the summer, not to mention giving up 9pm summer sunsets.

Besides, it’s what we’re all currently used to using for the majority of the time.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I personally prefer to see light 9-5 as a 9-5 office worker, but as soon as someone pointed out that we're dooming school kids to darkness going to school in the morning all winter I realised this was a terrible idea.

Here's the thing though - there's no law that says school must be 9 - 3. In fact there are studies that show teenagers would do better if school started later (vs even earlier like I experienced).

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Here's the thing though - there's no law that says school must be 9 - 3. In fact there are studies that show teenagers would do better if school started later (vs even earlier like I experienced).

If we are re-designing society, sure. But this was about stopping the time change and picking one of two options.

I'm also less concerned about teenagers getting to school in the dark. It's elementary kids that will be at more risk, thanks to 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 drivers everywhere.

[Chirpythecougar]

Changing the time zone is redesigning society, even if a little. We can ask schools to shift their hours either in general or in the winter months if it's such a huge concern.

The simple fact is that there is very little daylight in the winter, either way someone will be unhappy.

If time changes weren't a thing already, and some politician proposed having everyone change all their clocks 2x a year, they would be laughed out of the room.

This is an obvious improvement to the existing system and I'm looking forward to these cyclical discussions about pros and cons of PDT vs PST being a thing of the past.
Every. Single. Time. the clocks are changed there are many arguments like this.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I like the idea, but I would have preferred maintaining the standard time option, which seems to be what most other jurisdictions have done, and what the "experts" recommend.

December in Vancouver will see light from 9-5 instead of 8-4, which would be more appropriate for school kids IMO.

What constitutes a time zone expert?

I'd say it DST makes more sense since at 4PM roughly 99% of people are awake, vs 8AM that number is much lower.

I think adjusting the daylight for when people are most likely to take advantage of it is much more appropriate, especially when factoring in SAD.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

What constitutes a time zone expert?

I'd say it DST makes more sense since at 4PM roughly 99% of people are awake, vs 8AM that number is much lower.

I think adjusting the daylight for when people are most likely to take advantage of it is much more appropriate, especially when factoring in SAD.

"Dr. Wendy Hall is a professor emeritus at the UBC School of Nursing."

"Organizations like the Canadian Society for Chronobiology and the American Academy of Sleep Medicine advocate for keeping standard time"

Experts on sleep, circadian rhythm, etc.

Trust the experts or trust the vibes. I agree the NDP has subtly shifted from one to the other. Very populist.

[NewfBC]

Remember when Christy implemented Family Day?... they chose to be different. That didn't work out well and it was changed in a couple years.

See if the same thing happens here.

Ron.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Trust the experts or trust the vibes. I agree the NDP has subtly shifted from one to the other. Very populist.

The vibes? we live in a democracy, and the vast majority of people would rather it be light out at 5PM in the winter rather than 4AM in the summer...

Also, dismissing the profound impact of seasonal effective disorder as "vibes" is a strange call.

[LeftCoaster]

Just to follow up on my point about living in a democracy....

Apparently 93% of BC residents prefer permanent daylight savings, so no it's not "vibes", its the will of the people.

https://engage.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/121/2019/11/Daylight-Saving-Time-Final-Report.pdf

[GenWhy?]

Vancouverites complaining about it being dark in the morning in winter is hilarious

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Just to follow up on my point about living in a democracy....

Apparently 93% of BC residents prefer permanent daylight savings, so no it's not "vibes", its the will of the people.

https://engage.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/121/2019/11/Daylight-Saving-Time-Final-Report.pdf

The question didn't have an option for standard time. Of course people don't want to change their clocks, that's all that survey reflects.

The science is pretty clear, and it's why virtually every other jurisdiction that went to a single year round time settled on standard, not daylight.

We'll see what people say when they are suddenly surprised about next winter's daylight patterns.

I'm not sure why you're taking this so personally.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Chirpythecougar

Changing the time zone is redesigning society, even if a little. We can ask schools to shift their hours either in general or in the winter months if it's such a huge concern.

The simple fact is that there is very little daylight in the winter, either way someone will be unhappy.

If time changes weren't a thing already, and some politician proposed having everyone change all their clocks 2x a year, they would be laughed out of the room.

This is an obvious improvement to the existing system and I'm looking forward to these cyclical discussions about pros and cons of PDT vs PST being a thing of the past.
Every. Single. Time. the clocks are changed there are many arguments like this.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Just to follow up on my point about living in a democracy....

Apparently 93% of BC residents prefer permanent daylight savings, so no it's not "vibes", its the will of the people.

https://engage.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/121/2019/11/Daylight-Saving-Time-Final-Report.pdf

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

The vibes? we live in a democracy, and the vast majority of people would rather it be light out at 5PM in the winter rather than 4AM in the summer...

Also, dismissing the profound impact of seasonal effective disorder as "vibes" is a strange call.

I have SAD so I think I can talk about it with some authority. I absolutely loathe the time change in the fall - I start to feel dread ahead of it happening as I know I'm about to be dropped into a deep dark hole that I won't be able to get out of until around when the time change happens again in the spring.

Before anyone brings up taking medication to help deal with it, most of it doesn't work of me (oh what fun) and the token one that does I had to be mega careful taking. I've found having a dawn simulator / sunrise alarm ('cause I need to it almost pitch black to sleep while hating getting up in the dark) and Hue lights in my living room that do a mini dawn simulation right as I get up takes care of getting up in the morning. Then I take a bit of CBD / CBG oil before sitting in front of one of the special lights while I have breakfast.

It's not perfect but it allows me to not try to hibernate all winter, and it works better than meds ever did. I know my SAD isn't going to magically go away from this - but not changing our clocks will make it less bad, and the worst of it should only be for about 2 months vs 4+ months.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The question didn't have an option for standard time. Of course people don't want to change their clocks, that's all that survey reflects.

The science is pretty clear, and it's why virtually every other jurisdiction that went to a single year round time settled on standard, not daylight.

We'll see what people say when they are suddenly surprised about next winter's daylight patterns.

I'm not sure why you're taking this so personally.

If you look at Canada (as well as what the US has been proposing) they settled on daylight time - not standard.

[p78hub]

I'd take the popular support with a small grain of salt. For every place that has successfully implemented permanent summer time, there is another location where the overwhelming public support disappeared after the first winter.

Personally, I don't like this. In the winter, I'll go from at least seeing morning sunlight when I set off for work to not seeing sunlight at all for the entire day for 2-3 months. I think the people who have been quiet on this issue will be more vocal in their complaints come January 2027.

[Migrant_Coconut]

OTOH you'll have the people who prefer having some sun at 5pm. We'll see who outvotes who... though the very unscientific comment sections (usually the first to complain about anything) seem to be fine with permanent DST.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The question didn't have an option for standard time. Of course people don't want to change their clocks, that's all that survey reflects.

The science is pretty clear, and it's why virtually every other jurisdiction that went to a single year round time settled on standard, not daylight.

We'll see what people say when they are suddenly surprised about next winter's daylight patterns.

I'm not sure why you're taking this so personally.

I'm not taking anything personally, I just think it's belittling to dismiss the viewpoints of a large portion of the population as vibes.

Anyway no sense in discussing further, it's going to permanent daylight time and I for one am ecstatic.