Winnipeg Construction XI

[Sheepish]

Speidy...Too late...we are already there! Main St between Dufferin and Logan is completely overtaken. Then move west to Princess and you have another hub. Add the safe injection site further down Higgins and the issues will migrate. Move east along Higgins and the tent cities sprawl. We can see that the developments of the United Way and WHRA has NOT made the area better. There is zero chance of market driven develpment in this area, So the best option now may be to accept what we are dealing with, create housing for those chronicly unhouseable, and try to manage the issues in a compact area and provide as many services as possible. The real question, how do we (as a society) keep more people from falling into this crevasse? (I've got no answer to this)

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Somebody mentioned somewhere else to bulldoze it all, and move the people somewhere else. Re-develop the area into something else. Enforce it. Basically this whole zone.

Your inclusions, such as Thunderbird House and the architecture firm that knowingly located in the middle of it, is almost as telling as your exclusions of Argyle High School, MMF, Share Health, YFC and the former CP train station, most of which is some way attempt to service people with housing security issues. Also just off the map is the United Way building who's location is also very intentional.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

S

Is this place on Austin the container place? Or what is it. Looks.. like something.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/gQprayBaXquY45uU6

These streetview images are so spot on of the situation it's hilarious. Spot on.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZauYueoBuzAyxanG7

Austin and Henry is Astum Api Niikinaahk transitional housing project. It has 22 tiny home units but I don't know if they are repurposed containers or were modular construction.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Your inclusions, such as Thunderbird House and the architecture firm that knowingly located in the middle of it, is almost as telling as your exclusions of Argyle High School, MMF, Share Health, YFC and the former CP train station, most of which is some way attempt to service people with housing security issues. Also just off the map is the United Way building who's location is also very intentional.

Dont take that map as an all encompassing thing. Its an example of the widespread nature of what's going on there. Could nit pick out the keepers. IOn all honesty that Shared Health building should be fired into the sun, it does nothing. I could keep going but whatever it gets the point across. That wouldnt happen anyways. We're more on the line of dealing with the problem, which is going nowhere fast.

[Sheepish]

Cory B
Thunderbird House and Bridgeman Architecture were undertaken before the area really tanked. We are dealing with a whole new level of hopelessness now. Argyle school is not a great example as it on the other side of Disraeli.
But look at the mess that WHRA is becoming, and in the warmer months there are ALWAYS people sleeping around the United Way building. I don't think that YFC is really catering to people in the area. The CP station is probaby the best example of a project that has not fallen off...and in fact has been undergoing significant work. And of course Thunderbird House is being given a new lease on life...although to what end is unclear. The point really is, the area has no real economic future - at least the foreseeable future. The best we can hope for is that issues here do not overtake the adjacent areas with the centennial center complex, city hall, the exchange, waterfront and beyond...including the new Marketlands complex. Bulldozing will achieve nothing...other than moving the problem in other directions.

[neutroniks]

If you've passed by the YFC building, with the exception of the Main St side walk, its actually well kept, the grass is always green, and it's always busy for the family and kids that do use the facility. It's probably one of the nicer in-use buildings on Higgins & Main.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by Sheepish

Cory B
Bulldozing will achieve nothing...other than moving the problem in other directions.

Absolutely true, Sheep.

To be perfectly honest, while part of me wants to see the homeless/addicted housed and receive treatment for their sake, part of me just doesn't want to look at people unconscious in the streets, or piles of rubbish in public spaces. I don't want to look down on people who are suffering, but I also don't want to "justify" crimes or violence that may be committed by the homeless/addicted against innocent folks who had no direct role in their problems. It's that "help them vs hide them" issue I think many of us deal with.

I don't know if we're ever going eliminate poverty, homelessness or addiction because so much of the world pushes people towards those ends. I think mitigating a degree of homelessness and addiction can be achievable, not just by making housing and treatment available, but by providing a level if dignity to the homeless/addicted that perhaps they might not see in themselves just yet.

I think building housing and addictions support along Main Street would get more public support if those supports looked pleasing to the folks driving past them at rush hour. If we can create a "this place doesn't look so bad" vibe, in the area it might even, eventually, attract some small scale private investment in the area.

[Sheepish]

YF is very well maintained. There has been a dent in the metal cladding in the front, otherwise it is always clean and kept up. United Way is well maintained, but during the summer and fall there were always people sleeping all around it, and garbage in front. WRHA has had many problems, including broken windows, lots of garbage, and people sleeping in front. The yard around Thunderbird house had become a tent city, and Main St Project itself is a mess - the garbage that is always on the sidewalk and streets (mainly in the warmer months) is indicative of the bigger problem...As it is now, the loss of the Manwin simply eliminates a fire hazard (since it already burned down). If the property can be developed to allow people to live with some dignity, safety and hope, it will be a step in the right direction.

[neutroniks]

Originally Posted by pspeid

Absolutely true, Sheep.

To be perfectly honest, while part of me wants to see the homeless/addicted housed and receive treatment for their sake, part of me just doesn't want to look at people unconscious in the streets, or piles of rubbish in public spaces. I don't want to look down on people who are suffering, but I also don't want to "justify" crimes or violence that may be committed by the homeless/addicted against innocent folks who had no direct role in their problems. It's that "help them vs hide them" issue I think many of us deal with.

I don't know if we're ever going eliminate poverty, homelessness or addiction because so much of the world pushes people towards those ends. I think mitigating a degree of homelessness and addiction can be achievable, not just by making housing and treatment available, but by providing a level if dignity to the homeless/addicted that perhaps they might not see in themselves just yet.

I think building housing and addictions support along Main Street would get more public support if those supports looked pleasing to the folks driving past them at rush hour. If we can create a "this place doesn't look so bad" vibe, in the area it might even, eventually, attract some small scale private investment in the area.

The additional problem on top of that isn't just housing, but supports. A lot of people either have mental illnesses, or just simply refuse any kind of help because they're jaded by society or have some trauma that, or even just a lack of knowledge about how to behave in a society because the system failed them. There's a lot of factors intertwined, but some people with a lack of empathy will just yell "get a job" at them.

[Jeff]

thunderbird house exterior reno is in full swing. was weird to see thunderbird house a hive of activity along with the steaming ruins of the manwin on the same block as one drove by...

[zalf]

Originally Posted by Sheepish

As it is now, the loss of the Manwin simply eliminates a fire hazard (since it already burned down). If the property can be developed to allow people to live with some dignity, safety and hope, it will be a step in the right direction.

I don't even disagree, but I am somewhat amused by the prescribed burn theory of urban development!

[attenborough]As part of the great cycle of nature, the senescent underbrush of dilapidated SRO hotels burns and gives way to new saplings of wraparound supports![/attenborough]

[biguc]

I read that as prescribed bums in the tiny text on my phone. I was wondering if there was a planning theory that said you could make things so bummy there'd be nowhere left to bum

[peg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The lot on east side Main St Between Logan and Disraeli. It still has the old front door stonework and a couple steel beams spanning the lot frontage. It's been vacant for decades.

This one: https://maps.app.goo.gl/2NrC6faCah8Z7W7B6

Or has that lot never been anything? I would have to assume it was burnt down and they left the columns at the front for some purpose.

The long gone Stanley Block. Burned down in '69.

https://westenddumplings.blogspot.com/2020/06/that-gap-on-main-street.html

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by cllew

Free Press said on Dec 30/25 in an article on the Manwin Hotel, Main St. Project had offered earlier in the year somewhere between $400000 to $600000 based on the land value for the property. MSP estimated that it would cost about the same amount to demolish it so some where in the 1 million dollar range just to get back to an empty lot to start building on.

If as suggested there is no insurance on the property, does the city put a lien on the title for the cost of the emergency fire demolition costs which may as much or more than a controlled demo

It’s worth at most $50ft2 minus cost to demo and back fill. It will be acquired by Main Street Project either from the owners or the City.

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

It would be neat to have another triangle building there to complete the square, with the back lane splitting the two. But as Labroco said he's never going to build anything so it doesn't mater.

The St Regis / CV site is locked and loaded waiting for development. Let’s see that site built out before we lament DT parking lots…

Taxation will not encourage development but rather a safer DT. I must say the University Development Corp has done a great job and perhaps could tackle that site. If we are going to spend tax dollars downtown they have my vote of confidence!

[Mr Tall Forehead]

A safer downtown comes from people on the sidewalks and eyes on the streets…which happens when surface parking lots get developed.

[bomberjet]

If we're serious about downtown. The issues need enforcement. Real enforcement. Police on the streets. Making controversial arrests for panhandling, vagrancy, littering, general discourse. That's the way to clean up downtown. The way to deal with the issues causing distress we all know is much more complex.

If we're just going to clutch pearls forever nothing will change. We go in circles all the time about this.

[davequanbury]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

If we're serious about downtown. The issues need enforcement. Real enforcement. Police on the streets. Making controversial arrests for panhandling, vagrancy, littering, general discourse. That's the way to clean up downtown. The way to deal with the issues causing distress we all know is much more complex.

If we're just going to clutch pearls forever nothing will change. We go in circles all the time about this.

Speaking of going around in circles, this approach to criminalizing homelessness has already been tried. Vagrancy laws, panhandling laws, we've tried this already. Too costly on the informcement side.

Let's hear some new ideas!

[bomberjet]

Build housing. Deemed costly and probably won't work.
Provide basic income, free schooling. Housing. Deemed costly and unfair.
Arrest people. Too mean.

Weve tried nothing and were all our of ideas mannnn.

Everyone wants the streets cleaned up but doesn't want to so anything that will inconvenience them. So we'll just suffer the consequences. A 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 downtown. The police budget endlessly explodes but nothing changes. Maybe lets start there.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Build housing. Deemed costly and probably won't work.
Provide basic income, free schooling. Housing. Deemed costly and unfair.
Arrest people. Too mean.

Weve tried nothing and were all our of ideas mannnn.

Everyone wants the streets cleaned up but doesn't want to so anything that will inconvenience them. So we'll just suffer the consequences. A 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 downtown. The police budget endlessly explodes but nothing changes. Maybe lets start there.

Sorry it's difficult for me to tell if you are merely repeating some of the arguments against dealing with homelessness, or if you agree with them. I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just asking for clarification.

I think there will always be people who dismiss current attempts to deal with homelessness because the change is so incremental. It's easier to claim "it doesn't work" than give it time.

Personally I'm encouraged by the information about so many of the newer residential builds we discuss here. It seems so many of them have a percentage of affordable/gearing to income units.

As for the most desperate people; those with addictions or mental health issues, they will take longer and require more supports than we seem to be able to provide right now. I don't think the path we're on is necessarily the wrong one, but sadly it takes time that many of the most needful people don't really have.