YVR & Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Meanwhile next summer Air Canada has updated their transcon schedules.

28 daily flights in August

YYZ - 16 daily (1 77W / 1 77L / 2 789 / 8 321s / 4 7M8s)
YUL - 7 daily (1 77W / 1 789 / 1 333 / 2 321s / 2 223s)
YOW - 4 daily (all on 321s)
YHZ - 1 daily (7M8)

Too bad YHZ is down to only one daily instead of the 2 they offered for summer 2025. AC seems to be reducing capacity each year for YVR-YHZ. Summer 2023 was one daily 7M8 and one daily 787-9. Hope Westjet picks up the slack.

[nname]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Too bad YHZ is down to only one daily instead of the 2 they offered for summer 2025. AC seems to be reducing capacity each year for YVR-YHZ. Summer 2023 was one daily 7M8 and one daily 787-9. Hope Westjet picks up the slack.

S25 was initially offered a single daily, but they cut transborder capacity mid-season so need to find somewhere to redeploy the capacity.

[Johnny Aussie]

That’s definitely one route where YVR’s geography is a disadvantage.
2 daily nonstops on the route is pretty decent despite the geography.

Would be nice to see this page updated! They need to add China Eastern, China Southern, HongKong Airlines, Sun Country and T’way.

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/maps/routes-brochure-2024/2025_yvr_routes-en.pdf

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Too bad YHZ is down to only one daily instead of the 2 they offered for summer 2025. AC seems to be reducing capacity each year for YVR-YHZ. Summer 2023 was one daily 7M8 and one daily 787-9. Hope Westjet picks up the slack.

It’s so odd to see so many 789 being used on transcon flights, which is not an ideal type of aircraft for that type of flying!

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Meanwhile next summer Air Canada has updated their transcon schedules.

28 daily flights in August

YYZ - 16 daily (1 77W / 1 77L / 2 789 / 8 321s / 4 7M8s)
YUL - 7 daily (1 77W / 1 789 / 1 333 / 2 321s / 2 223s)
YOW - 4 daily (all on 321s)
YHZ - 1 daily (7M8)

So annoying. They had finally gone up to (or at least announced) going to 6 YOW flights a day. Interesting to see YOW dropped from trans-pacific scissor hubbing and going all A321. Maybe better timing?

[casper]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

It’s so odd to see so many 789 being used on transcon flights, which is not an ideal type of aircraft for that type of flying!

It makes sense. Given the timing of Asia flights those aircraft would be parked in YVR for 18-20 hours. May as well them domestically.

There should also be a good amount of cargo from Asia and Oceana that needs to moved to the rest of Canada out of Vancouver.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

So annoying. They had finally gone up to (or at least announced) going to 6 YOW flights a day. Interesting to see YOW dropped from trans-pacific scissor hubbing and going all A321. Maybe better timing?

I never heard or saw anything about YVR-YOW going to 6 daily. They’ve gone back to EWR for the transpacific coupling. As nname pointed out YOW will still be served 3 weekly 789s on one so perhaps that’s the plane rotating with SIN?

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

It’s so odd to see so many 789 being used on transcon flights, which is not an ideal type of aircraft for that type of flying!

not really ... you dont really know what your talking about. its common practice around the world. also look at the dynamics of the Canadian market and it makes sense.

AI Roundup


Here are the most consistent examples of widebodies on domestic/continental routes as of late 2024/2025 schedules.
1. North America (US Domestic)

In the US, "Transcon" (Coast-to-Coast) and "Hub-to-Hub" routes are the best places to find widebodies.

The "Premium Transcon" Routes:

JFK ↔ LAX/SFO: This is the most reliable widebody market. Delta (B767-300/400, A330-900neo) and American Airlines (A321T - narrowbody but premium, often supplemented by B777-200 or B787) fly these heavily. United flies B757s (narrow) but frequently schedules B777s and B787s on peak timings.

Hub-to-Hub Repositioning:

United Airlines: frequently flies B777s and B787s between its major hubs, specifically Newark (EWR), Chicago (ORD), Denver (DEN), Houston (IAH), and San Francisco (SFO).

Look for: ORD ↔ DEN or IAH ↔ DEN often sees a morning or evening 777.

American Airlines: Often flies B777s and B787s between Dallas (DFW), Miami (MIA), and Chicago (ORD).

Specific Route: MIA ↔ DFW often has multiple daily 777/787 flights to reposition aircraft for international banks.

Delta Air Lines: Uses B767s heavily between Atlanta (ATL) and New York (JFK), Detroit (DTW), or Minneapolis (MSP).

Hawaii Routes:

Flights from the West Coast (LAX, SFO, SEA) to Honolulu (HNL) or Maui (OGG) are treated as domestic but almost exclusively use widebodies (A330, B767, B777) due to range and demand.

2. Europe (Intra-European)

Widebodies are rarer within Europe, but specific "cargo-heavy" or "training" routes are consistent.

Finnair (The A350 Trainer):

Helsinki (HEL) ↔ London (LHR): Finnair flies the Airbus A350 on the morning rotation (usually AY1331/1332) primarily for cargo capacity.

Helsinki (HEL) ↔ Amsterdam (AMS): Also sees frequent A350 service.

Iberia & British Airways (The Cargo Shuttle):

Madrid (MAD) ↔ London (LHR): This route has massive cargo demand. Iberia frequently flies A330s and A350s here. BA sometimes puts a B777 or B787 on this route for similar reasons.

Turkish Airlines (The Widebody King of Europe):

Turkish Airlines treats Europe like a domestic network. They fly A330s, B777s, B787s, and A350s from Istanbul (IST) to major cities like London (LHR), Paris (CDG), Amsterdam (AMS), Dusseldorf (DUS), and Frankfurt (FRA) daily.

Air Europa:

Madrid (MAD) ↔ Barcelona (BCN): Surprisingly, they often fly the Boeing 787 Dreamliner on this very short route to utilize the aircraft between long-haul flights.

Madrid (MAD) ↔ Canary Islands (LPA/TFN): Frequent widebody service due to high tourist volume.

3. Asia (The "Domestic Giant" Model)

In Asia, widebodies on short routes are the norm, not the exception, due to high population density and slot constraints at airports.

Japan (JAL & ANA):

Japan has "Domestic Configuration" widebodies (high-density seating, no true lie-flat beds).

Routes: Tokyo (HND) to Sapporo (CTS), Fukuoka (FUK), Osaka (ITM), and Okinawa (OKA).

Aircraft: You will easily find A350-900s, B787s, and B777s on these 1-2 hour flights.

China (Big 3 Airlines):

The "Golden Route" between Beijing (PEK/PKX) and Shanghai (SHA/PVG) is dominated by widebodies (A330, A350, B777, B787) from Air China, China Eastern, and China Southern.

South Korea:

Seoul (GMP) ↔ Jeju (CJU): This is the busiest air route in the world. Korean Air and Asiana fly widebodies (A330, B767, B777) back and forth constantly to manage the volume.

4. Special Mentions (The "Unicorn" Routes)

These are short routes that use massive planes for unique reasons.

Qatar Airways (Doha ↔ Bahrain): A ~90-mile flight often operated by Boeing 777s or 787s. It is one of the shortest scheduled widebody flights in the world.

Ethiopian Airlines: Often flies B787s or A350s on "tag flights" within Africa (e.g., Addis Ababa to regional neighbors) before continuing to another continent.

Aer Lingus (Dublin ↔ Malaga/Faro): During peak summer months, Aer Lingus will sometimes schedule an A330 on morning rotations to holiday destinations to carry mass amounts of tourists.




ALSO .... https://www.oag.com/busiest-routes-world-2024

Listed below are the number one domestic airline routes per region. Full Top 10 rankings for each of these regions, plus further breakdowns, alongside the global busiest international and domestic routes rankings, is free to download - just click on the yellow button below for instant access.

NORTH AMERICA
Vancouver - Toronto | 3,498,835 seats.


so if you were running an airline you would not want to capitalize on the busiest city pair in North America and fly widebodys to better utilize your fleet and make more $$$ on the premium econ and lay flat offerings? you would just fly narrowbodys because "thats what you do?" what school of airline logic did you graduate from?

[hollywoodnorth]

https://www.theairlineobserver.com/p/why-air-canada-wants-more-range-in

And that’s just with passengers. Galardo is also president of Air Canada Cargo, and he said the company likes to use freighters to haul goods from Ecuador, Colombia, and Peru, and then transfer items to passenger jets headed to Asia. He wants an airplane that can carry people and freight.

“When you’re flying to the Pacific, cargo is a real make-or-break between decent profitability and sustainable profitability,” Galardo said. “If those cargo bellies coming out of Asia are not full, you’re talking low-margin operations.”




interesting words here. I can see LATAM launching a South America (bogota or santiago) - YVR before Air Canada. But something will happen in the next couple years.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I never heard or saw anything about YVR-YOW going to 6 daily. They’ve gone back to EWR for the transpacific coupling. As nname pointed out YOW will still be served 3 weekly 789s on one so perhaps that’s the plane rotating with SIN?

YOW rotate with BKK.

HKG doesn't rotate with anything yet.

[Johnny Aussie]

Was reading on airliners.net that Porter is going to expand at YVR and possibly start YVR-YYC and YVR-YEG. Nothing to corroborate this yet though.

So right now next summer PD is scheduled to have 11 daily flights from YVR

I wonder what tricks they have up their sleeves

[nname]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

ALSO .... https://www.oag.com/busiest-routes-world-2024

Listed below are the number one domestic airline routes per region. Full Top 10 rankings for each of these regions, plus further breakdowns, alongside the global busiest international and domestic routes rankings, is free to download - just click on the yellow button below for instant access.

NORTH AMERICA
Vancouver - Toronto | 3,498,835 seats.

Here is the 2025 version:
https://www.oag.com/busiest-routes-world-2025

Basically the same as last year, YVR-YYZ is the busiest North American route again, with 4.5% growth in seat.

NORTH AMERICA
Vancouver - Toronto
3,655,423 seats


Also, from the UA press release:
https://www.united.com/en/us/newsroom/announcements/cision-125430

Vancouver is the top international destination for 4 rather random states according to their booking:
Alaska
New Mexico
Michigan
Connecticut

Maybe UA or AC want to join WS serving YVR-DTW? What about YVR-ABQ!??
Surprised how Vancouver actually beat Cancun for the top international destination for New Mexico...

[trofirhen]

YYZ >< YVR is the top North American city pair. !! That is amazing. I mean there is LAX ><SFO,.... ORD >< ATL, ... DFW >< IAH ... (is NYC not on the list anywhere because traffic there is split between three airports?) /// At any rate, Vancouver >< Toronto being where it is at number one in NA blows my mind, given that Vancouver is only a mid-sized city and not a major economic hub like Toronto.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Also, from the UA press release:
https://www.united.com/en/us/newsroom/announcements/cision-125430

Vancouver is the top international destination for 4 rather random states according to their booking:
Alaska
New Mexico
Michigan
Connecticut

And YVR is the 5th largest intl destination on UA after London, Cancun, Tokyo and Toronto but ahead of Rome, Mexico City, Paris, Los Cabos and Frankfurt to round out the top 10.

Not too surprised with UA’s decently sized network out of YVR. Next summer looking at 18 daily flights all on mainline. YYZ has more flights at 23 daily but 16 of those on Express. I would guess YYZ and YVR close in numbers on UA

[ninjakafi_81]

Thought this article posted on DailyHive was interesting.

Inside the global competition to bring new airlines and routes to Vancouver International Airport

Earlier this fall, airport and airline officials and other aviation leaders from around the globe convened in Hong Kong for Routes World, one of the aviation industry’s most influential route-development conferences, held annually.

At the 2025 conference, a delegation representing Vancouver International Airport (YVR) positioned itself not merely as Canada’s second largest and busiest airport serving the country’s third most populated metropolitan region, but as a strategic Trans-Pacific gateway — linking North America with Asia and Oceania, driving trade diversification, and anchoring economic growth at a time of heightened uncertainty.

For Russ Atkinson, director of air service development at the Vancouver Airport Authority, events like Routes World are about far more than pitching flights. They are about telling Vancouver’s story — clearly, competitively, and collaboratively — to the airline decision-makers who determine where aircraft will fly next.

YVR is also making a major effort to expand its cargo-handling capacity (not to be confused for checked luggage). Just as the airport serves as a Trans-Pacific gateway for passengers, it plays a similar role for cargo. Metro Vancouver’s geographic location and ground transportation infrastructure gives airlines the added opportunity to move high-value freight — such as perishable goods — in the belly holds beneath passenger cabins, reaching distant overseas market. Cargo volumes can play a significant role in the financial viability of commercial passenger routes.

“It’s that sort of information that give airline network planners confidence,” Atkinson told Daily Hive Urbanized. “If they’re going to invest their airplanes in our market, they need to know the market will support it, and that we’re also doing our part [as the airport authority] to drive up demand and make the route successful.”

While YVR remains open to discussions with virtually any airline, the airport authority has outlined several priority regions that reflect both passenger demand and broader economic strategy.

Of course, Trans-Pacific growth remains central. YVR has invested heavily in its role as a connecting hub between North America and Asia-Pacific, including Australia and New Zealand. Recent years have seen the launch of direct flights to not only Singapore, but also Manila, and Bangkok. This is in addition to the increased service to Japan and South Korea, restarted links to Australia, and a gradual resurgence in direct service to China.

Vietnam stands out as a notable unserved market of interest, reflecting strong demand and growing economic and cultural ties.

Latin America is another key focus. Currently, Costa Rica is YVR’s only direct Central American destination, and there is no non-stop service to South America. Yet demand data consistently points to Brazil, Argentina, and Chile as high-potential markets. Chile, in particular, has deep business connections with B.C., while YVR’s geographic position also makes it a logical connecting point between Asia and South America.

Europe and the United Kingdom continue to perform strongly. Despite four daily non-stop flights to London during peak season — one operated by Air Canada and three by British Airways — load factors remain high, indicating latent demand. Additional European destinations such as Barcelona and Rome are also on YVR’s radar.

India represents perhaps the most compelling long-term opportunity. B.C.’s large South Asian population fuels consistent demand not only to New Delhi, but also to southern Indian cities. Beyond passenger traffic, India offers significant cargo potential and aligns with Canada’s efforts to diversify international trade.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-international-airport-destination-marketing-strategy

[LeftCoaster]

As previously reported, Emirates hasdownguaged DXB-SEA through the summer. Moving from a 773 to a 772, definitely a good sign for Emirates starting a YVR route.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/260106-ekns26sea

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

As previously reported, Emirates hasdownguaged DXB-SEA ...definitely a good sign for Emirates starting a YVR route.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/260106-ekns26sea

Finally, something droolworthy! I wonder if Transport Canada will allow them rights here? If yes, when could they start service and at what frequency? Time will tell.

[LeftCoaster]

The rights are already approved, what is in question is whether or not Emirates is interested.

Rumour is that it is quite likely, but nothing's a done deal until it is.

[VancityAvgeek33]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

The rights are already approved, what is in question is whether or not Emirates is interested.

Rumour is that it is quite likely, but nothing's a done deal until it is.

The rights?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by VancityAvgeek33

The rights?

Building on the Prime Minister’s recent visit to the UAE where more direct commercial flights between both countries were announced, the expanded Canada–United Arab Emirates Air Transport Agreement includes:

An additional 14 passenger flights per week per country, for a total of 35 per country
Unlimited all-cargo flights, up from four weekly per country.
Open fifth freedom rights for all-cargo services.

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canad...ow-more-passenger-and-cargo-flights.html