General Updates and News

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by JET

Has anyone seen a breakdown of the cost estimate?
Other than the asbestos being dealt wit, what would be the major costs to make it usual; not a showpiece, but usable?
I have always liked the gothic design.

The Turret Arts Socoty plan is $18 million or so, I believe, and the city said $12 million to make it "leasable." That feels high, but I really have no insight into the economics here. I do think this building merits becoming a showpiece, but certainly it'd be better for it to at least be used rather than not.

[someone123]

Halifax doesn't have a ton of public or cultural indoor space downtown and there's been so much growth in that immediate area. It really doesn't seem outlandish to invest there and keep it for public use. It is in a good spot on Barrington and next to the Neptune.

Still not quite sure how, say, Quebec City or Edinburgh exist if the Khyber is an enormous financial burden.

[JET]

The CBC article states that asbestos abatement has already taken place.
Be interesting to see a list of expected costs

[Keith P.]

Before HRM spends one thin dime of public money on the place, they need to ensure that the current Khyber Arts Society bunch are not in any way part of the way forward. They have held HRM hostage regarding the space for decades to protect their private clubhouse, in concert with the former councillor for the area, which in no way serves the needs of the community at large.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Honestly, before we start worrying about who deserves to use the space, there needs to be a solid plan to get the building back into shape before it starts crumbling on the spot. I really don’t think that Barrington needs another awning to protect pedestrians from falling masonry because nobody can commit to doing the actual work that needs to be done.

It will cost money, but so will doing nothing. I would assert that if the work had been done all along, the city wouldn’t be faced with this dilemma. We have to do better than this.

Additionally, while we are nickel and diming this property, there are costs larger than the financial cost to letting this building deteriorate. Whether you like the architecture or not, it’s a unique building of a type that will never be built again, and a key piece to a designated heritage district. Letting this deteriorate while in limbo is literally an embarrassment to the city, and shows everyone that we really don’t have our shit together, despite wanting to be viewed as a growing, progressive city. Really, it’s tiring to see this saga continue without a positive outcome in sight. It does not instill any confidence that the city can accomplish anything worthy of what it’s trying to be, really.

[JET]

Demolition permit for the ale house. More built heritage gone

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by JET

Has anyone seen a breakdown of the cost estimate?
Other than the asbestos being dealt wit, what would be the major costs to make it usual; not a showpiece, but usable?
I have always liked the gothic design.

I believe a huge cost addition is they are required to install elevators in the building to get it up to code.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JET

Demolition permit for the ale house. More built heritage gone

That’s most unfortunate, but not surprising.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by JET

Demolition permit for the ale house. More built heritage gone

The city’s permitting database says it was issued on Nov 27 and expires on Jan 1. Am I reading something wrong here? Seems like an unusually brief period for something like this—also, the site does not appear to be undergoing any active work.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The city’s permitting database says it was issued on Nov 27 and expires on Jan 1. Am I reading something wrong here? Seems like an unusually brief period for something like this—also, the site does not appear to be undergoing any active work.

I noted that hfx retales had posted the info, would be nice if it was incorrect

[Drybrain]

Hmm. The ReTales post gives the impression this is a new development, but I just find this on the local councillor’s website, from late October:

“Update 22 October 2025: The demolition permit has been issued per process (in March), but staff and the owner are still working to save the Alehouse.

Some have suggested a third-party heritage registration process for the building. Staff and I feel that this would be counterproductive to the process of trying to preserve the building.

The owner engaged a consultant on this project back in March as well, and I learned from staff last week that they are working on a concept design that includes a heritage registration of the building, which would be required before a Heritage Development Agreement could be approved. This is very positive news, and I think giving the owner time and space to work with staff and their consultant on their options is the best path forward.”

Maybe there is a new permit that ReTales has some inside scoop on? Or maybe not—where else are demolition or building permits posted online?

[someone123]

It seems like it obviously merits being preserved, and at the same time it makes sense to develop most of that half of the block. Either keep the Alehouse on the corner or incorporate it into the new building. The sports bar place and the Keg are not really candidates for preservation. Presumably they'd be able to go up to a similar height to the Homburg building.

There's a row of old red brick buildings here and it would be nice to have new construction that complements them. A simple masonry facade similar to what's being built at King's Wharf with some upper residential floors would be great.

[Drybrain]

A little more digging shows a permit issued to demolish the buildings at the PIDs containing the Alehouse, The Keg and the sports bar was issued back in November. So I’m guessing that’s what Laura White was referring to. Nothing more recent that I can see, so I’m optimistic that the Alehouse building might have a future, and the mediocre rest of the block will be replaced.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

A little more digging shows a permit issued to demolish the buildings at the PIDs containing the Alehouse, The Keg and the sports bar was issued back in November. So I’m guessing that’s what Laura White was referring to. Nothing more recent that I can see, so I’m optimistic that the Alehouse building might have a future, and the mediocre rest of the block will be replaced.

That would be the best outcome. Fingers crossed.

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

At some point one must again ask the question: how long can this be allowed to go on without any real plan nor progress, and how has a group such as the Arts Society been allowed to derail any attempt to make more inclusive use of the space, either in a restored building or otherwise? Why are they so special? The place has been a headache for decades.

Multiple decades, and tens of millions of dollars, apparently.

[kzt79]

European hospitals hundreds of years old are well-maintained and functional today. Yet we somehow can't keep hospitals going for more than 50 years or so, just look at the appalling state of the VG.

This building will most likely be allowed to continue rotting, of course with regular "consultations" and studies of all manner themselves ultimately costing millions of tax dollars.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by kzt79

European hospitals hundreds of years old are well-maintained and functional today. Yet we somehow can't keep hospitals going for more than 50 years or so, just look at the appalling state of the VG.

I still don't quite know why Halifax has the culture it does around old buildings and the idea of their "end of life". On Reddit there was a similar post about the Alehouse building, saying a brick fell off so it was on its last legs and obviously had to be torn down.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

I still don't quite know why Halifax has the culture it does around old buildings and the idea of their "end of life". On Reddit there was a similar post about the Alehouse building, saying a brick fell off so it was on its last legs and obviously had to be torn down.

I wonder to what degree it's a local thing and to what degree it's a North American thing. Some of both, I think, and maybe there is some local sense of inadquacy, wrapped up in the idea that the region needs to strive for modernity. (You hear this kind of thing when a particular kind of NIMBY goes on about historic buildings somehow hold the city back from advancement, a perspective as weird to me as the idea that new buildings are intrinsically undesirable.)

The haphazard approach to maintaining insitutional buildings like schools and medical facilities really illustrates that. Now that I have young kids, I'm pretty familiar with peninsula schools, and most of the mid-century and older public schools I know are genuinely shabby. There's no reason these buildings needs to be in bad shape, but they've experienced years of minimal maintenance and investment in improving them. This leads to a perspective that the old schools are simply inferior learning environments, and kids need new schools. My kids will go to the new SJAM when it opens in the North End, and it looks like it'll be pretty spiffy. But I do wonder if over time it'll just lapse into the same decay, and 50 years from now some new generation of parents will be celebrating its demolition and replacement.

[someone123]

I compare Halifax to other parts of Canada and I feel like old public buildings like schools have a lower survival rate and worse maintenance. Old public schools are probably more common here in Vancouver even though it's a newer city and some of them are pretty nice or at least not noticeably deteriorating. They're generally a larger burden here than in NS because they need seismic upgrades. In Quebec or New England, there is more of a culture of preservation. Halifax is in a weird bubble where it's an older place with seemingly very little sense of the importance of the past. Commenters, the media, and politicians in Halifax can treat 100+ year old masonry buildings with the level of veneration you'd usually see for an abandoned big box store.

Some factors I think are that HRM is unusually bureaucratic and unpredictable, and there's often big payouts to development in Halifax. So we have things like heritage districts that are debated for years while developers have a window to demolish, then they're put on pause, etc. etc., and in the meantime you can make millions just by holding on to the land. Downtown Vancouver and Toronto also have this kind of dynamic, but Halifax is unusual in that the municipality and province may be even worse than the private owners.

[someone123]

Alehouse aside I wonder if anything will ever be improved with some of the small gaps around the smaller brick buildings around that area. Ideally, it would be nice if the heritage buildings were fully preserved and not turned into a facade bolted onto a modern building that maxes out the developable envelope.

I'm talking about, for example, the little parking lot by the Wooden Monkey, or the parking across from the former Alehouse building, or the parking shoehorned in around what were grounds of the Halifax Academy. The Halifax Academy one is tough in that there's a tiny empty parking space surrounded by fairly nice detailed facades, and part of a historic fence with granite footings still in place. The St. Mary's parking is another one.