General Updates and News

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Actually they would get more when they start collecting CPP since the HRM plan is not harmonized with that the way most plans are.

Yes I get that part, I just meant the HRM pension pays out the same dollar amount in perpetuity. It's a generous pension given the other factors, but inflation is a material factor over potentially 2-3 decades.

[Seanhfx]

Originally Posted by kzt79

It's still not really clear to me. Terminology aside, has there been an increase in the payout? Based on their statement that "indexing" (or whatever you want to call it) is ad hoc based on funding position, and as you note it is fully funded.

I did find this: "Starting 2026 (Jan 1): A new COLA rate of 2.61% per year is approved through 2030."

It would appear to me there is at least some provision for increasing payouts over time. The pension also offers very generous survivor benefits. Again, fully support those receiving these pensions and their good decision-making in choosing to work for the city.

What you provided for a cola 2.61% increase starting next year is the Nova Scotia Pension, not HRM pension. Two entirely different plans. I know for a fact there has not been any increase what so ever since 2022 for HRM pensioners.

[Seanhfx]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

They keep the indexing top secret, but my understanding is that they have indeed indexed benefits for the last several years.

There is no secret, fact is there has not been any cola type increase for HRM pensioners (since 2022). My spouse retired then and gets exactly the same gross amount each month.

[Keith P.]

Ah, just when you thought everything was copacetic, look what is on the front page of the Herald today!:

https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia/hal...uest-intends-to-buy-back-khyber-building

I won't include the entire piece but here are the vital bits:

Halifax shoots down $1.5-million request, intends to buy back Khyber building

Non-profit has been working on a redevelopment plan for over a decade

By Jen Taplin
Published Dec 16, 2025

With no explanation, the Halifax Regional Municipality is denying a $1.5-million arts funding request and buying back the iconic 1588 Barrington St. building known as the Khyber, says the non-profit trying to redevelop it.
Article content

It’s a bit of whiplash for the Turret Arts Space Society, which has been building a case and collecting funds for 11 years to turn the historic building into an accessible arts hub and queer heritage site.

“It was very disappointing to hear this news, and it really calls into question the process by which HRM is deciding about a project that has public and civic engagement,” said Emily Davidson, a Turret Arts Space Society board member, in an interview Monday.

“The Turret Art Space is a project that has been developed with tens of thousands of board chair hours and a high level of community engagement, so it made us question what the goals of the HRM might be if this decision was taken behind closed doors.”

Comment: Tens of thousands of hours indeed, none of which seemed to result in much beyond handouts from HRM to the Society and delays/derailments of anything that did not result in them getting use of a renovated version of the place at taxpayer expense, thanks to decades of fiddling by Waye Mason, both in his time as a HRM Council member and otherwise.

The society presented its case at the Community Planning and Economic Development committee in March, looking for a $1.5-million commitment from the municipality toward the next phase of the redevelopment. The committee requested a staff report to return to the committee and then Halifax regional council in about six months.

Instead, Davidson said they were notified by HRM staff late last month that a confidential report was presented to council in a private meeting, and their funding request had been denied.

Later, Turret was notified by the HRM legal department that the municipality intended to repurchase 1588 Barrington St. for $1, which is a provision under the agreement made in 2018 when HRM sold it to Turret for $1.

Davidson said the funding was denied because HRM is taking back the building but there’s no indication of what HRM’s intentions are for the future of the Khyber.

“As members of the public, we’re left guessing when these decisions are taken behind closed doors. We’re left to speculate as to the reasons why.”

Davidson said the society is calling on HRM to release the confidential staff report, halt the buy-back and support the redevelopment.

“The volunteers behind the project are very curious to see what that staff report says. We also think that the public needs to know why this public-facing community asset, why the city is initiating a process to repurchase that asset.”

The hope that their vision still might come true lies mostly with the federal government. Davidson said they filed a multimillion-dollar application for an infrastructure program. If that swings their way, it might convince the HRM to reverse their decision, Davidson said.

It’s not just the society that’s impacted, Davidson said, it’s also the other two levels of government that have invested already and the two partner tenants who have committed to moving in once the redevelopment is done: the Khyber Centre for the Arts and Leave Out Violence Nova Scotia.

At some point one must again ask the question: how long can this be allowed to go on without any real plan nor progress, and how has a group such as the Arts Society been allowed to derail any attempt to make more inclusive use of the space, either in a restored building or otherwise? Why are they so special? The place has been a headache for decades.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Patriots

I don't have a problem with defined benefit pension plans (DBPs) either except when tax payers are funding. There are plenty of reasons why the private sector generally has moved toward defined contribution plans - one of them being the funding risk for the employer related to DBPs. Time for the public sector to get a reality check. I have more of a problem with how much we as taxpayers are paying labor costs for all levels of government. Not many would argue we are getting good bang for our buck.

One oft-overlooked point about public-sector defined benefit pensions: back in the days when public sector jobs did not offer much in the way of salary, the pension was supposed to be a recruiting chip that could be played, along with the "a job for life" concept since public service employees were almost never fired except for gross misconduct, as a way to offset the higher salaries offered in the private sector. At some point, starting with the Feds, those salaries began to get quite rich. While PNS did not immediately follow and only recently has started to catch up, HRM began paying people, especially those in senior positions, big bucks as well in recent times. So for example, you have the chief librarian, Ms, Kachan, hauling in $250K annually at present and eventually a HRM pension that might end up being half that amount or more once she eventually retires. Do we need such pricey people?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Ah, just when you thought everything was copacetic, look what is on the front page of the Herald today!:

https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia/hal...uest-intends-to-buy-back-khyber-building

I won't include the entire piece but here are the vital bits:



Comment: Tens of thousands of hours indeed, none of which seemed to result in much beyond handouts from HRM to the Society and delays/derailments of anything that did not result in them getting use of a renovated version of the place at taxpayer expense, thanks to decades of fiddling by Waye Mason, both in his time as a HRM Council member and otherwise.




At some point one must again ask the question: how long can this be allowed to go on without any real plan nor progress, and how has a group such as the Arts Society been allowed to derail any attempt to make more inclusive use of the space, either in a restored building or otherwise? Why are they so special? The place has been a headache for decades.

The report will supposedly be released at some point, but comments in the article hint that the buyback is in the best interest of the building. Reading between the lines, one might be inclined to believe that the building has not received significant maintenance to stop or reverse the deterioration that had the building in jeopardy in the first place?

Don’t want to speculate any further, but this might be the best outcome, if it means that the city is intent on saving the building. I suppose we’ll see how it unfolds.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The report will supposedly be released at some point, but comments in the article hint that the buyback is in the best interest of the building. Reading between the lines, one might be inclined to believe that the building has not received significant maintenance to stop or reverse the deterioration that had the building in jeopardy in the first place?

Don’t want to speculate any further, but this might be the best outcome, if it means that the city is intent on saving the building. I suppose we’ll see how it unfolds.

Seems like it's out already. tl;dr is that the Arts Society is out of money, and the city doesn't want to give them more money because they don't have faith the group will be able to execute its plans. Because the building is basically unmaintained (and ininsured) in the society's hands, it is also at some some degree of physcal risk. So the city is taking it back.

What happens next is totally up in the air. The estimated restoration costs are $12 million. That's not astronomical but, according to the report, the building's small leasable area means that sum is still not likely to be economical for a developer.

So what happens now is pretty open. It doesn't look like there's a path forward for a purely private-sector project--if the building is ever to be used for anything, a meaningful amount of public money is going to have to be ponied up. What would be nice to see is real civic effort going into figuring this out. There are so many possibilities. The Turret Arts Society's plans are good, but the money is lacking. Simply shelving this and letting the building sit in limbo is a terrible, terrible next step. The building backs onto Neptune Theatre, so there seems to be a natural alliance between two arts groups. Can that be leveraged for common purpose or shared costs? I don't know, but right now it looks like the city is going to say, "guess we can't do anything, maybe we'll try to sell it."

I'm hopeful this won't turn out like Bloomfield (the importance of the building and its location both seem like strong strikes against that), but the overall drifting lack of vision and purpose feels familiar. It should not be impossible to find $12 million for a project like this; frankly, if we were in Montreal or some other places, this would have been fixed years ago.

[someone123]

I always wonder how European cities exist yet HRM says small heritage buildings in apparent normal-ish shape require in the tens of millions in maintenance to stabilize them. For that matter how does Lunenburg exist if these are the economics of heritage maintenance?

Then there's the fact that HRM itself declared Barrington a heritage district. I don't think a budget of something like $12M a year to fix heritage buildings is outlandish.

I have no way to really assess what is or isn't reasonable as far as the underlying numbers in the reports but I wonder what incentives or guard rail exist. There often seems to be an incentive to make projects seem difficult and complicated and in Halifax it's always somehow better to demolish and completely rebuild structures than use what's there, even though comparable buildings remain in use all over North America, including in poorer towns. You also see it with the stadium which, whether you like it or not, tends to get wrapped up in complex plans with very high cost estimates that never seem to match what people want or use.

[JET]

Originally Posted by someone123

I always wonder how European cities exist yet HRM says small heritage buildings in apparent normal-ish shape require in the tens of millions in maintenance to stabilize them. For that matter how does Lunenburg exist if these are the economics of heritage maintenance?

Then there's the fact that HRM itself declared Barrington a heritage district. I don't think a budget of something like $12M a year to fix heritage buildings is outlandish.

I have no way to really assess what is or isn't reasonable as far as the underlying numbers in the reports but I wonder what incentives or guard rail exist. There often seems to be an incentive to make projects seem difficult and complicated and in Halifax it's always somehow better to demolish and completely rebuild structures than use what's there, even though comparable buildings remain in use all over North America, including in poorer towns. You also see it with the stadium which, whether you like it or not, tends to get wrapped up in complex plans with very high cost estimates that never seem to match what people want or use.

It would be interesting to know what the overall cost of the NFB building was.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by JET

It would be interesting to know what the overall cost of the NFB building was.

That's probably not really comparable because the NFB wasn't a building restoration, it was just putting up a new building behind the facade.

Also, man, the NFB project turned out terribly.

Maybe a better example would be the Green Lantern--a bigger building than the Khyber, but an actual restoration, and one that turned out nicely.

[someone123]

Barrington has its high points but the low points are embarrassing as the "main street" of the city and primary heritage district. HRM should be pushing to gradually get buildings like NFB into good shape through heritage grants. If there had been even modest forward movement for the past 20 years it would be done by now.

Again it's obvious something is out of whack if you look at other cities. Barrington has a nice collection of heritage buildings but it's not a massive outlier in an older city. It is a small burden for a municipality with half a million people. It's that nobody intervenes when private owners mess up heritage buildings, and the economics are likely thrown off by red tape and tax issues.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

Barrington has its high points but the low points are embarrassing as the "main street" of the city and primary heritage district. HRM should be pushing to gradually get buildings like NFB into good shape through heritage grants. If there had been even modest forward movement for the past 20 years it would be done by now.

Again it's obvious something is out of whack if you look at other cities. Barrington has a nice collection of heritage buildings but it's not a massive outlier in an older city. It is a small burden for a municipality with half a million people. It's that nobody intervenes when private owners mess up heritage buildings, and the economics are likely thrown off by red tape and tax issues.

The state of the Pacific Building in particular is inexcusable--the owner erected a gigantic, million-dollar awning to prevent people from getting brained by falling debris rather than fix the facade. I don't actually know how these things are often dealt with in other cities, but there does often seem to be a sort of fatalistic approach to these matters, as if an uncooperative owner just means civic assets will depreciate forever, and the city is powerless to do anything to address it.

[Keith P.]

I don’t know the specifics about the facade of the Pacific Building, but it seems about half of the sidewalks in Manhattan are covered in scaffolding, so it is not an unusual thing.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I seem to recall that the Pacific Building was acquired as an ‘investment’ by an entity in China. I recall that there might have been plans publicized for a restoration, but all it got was impact protection from falling bits of building. Am I remembering this correctly?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Seems like it's out already. tl;dr is that the Arts Society is out of money, and the city doesn't want to give them more money because they don't have faith the group will be able to execute its plans. Because the building is basically unmaintained (and ininsured) in the society's hands, it is also at some some degree of physcal risk. So the city is taking it back.

What happens next is totally up in the air. The estimated restoration costs are $12 million. That's not astronomical but, according to the report, the building's small leasable area means that sum is still not likely to be economical for a developer.

So what happens now is pretty open. It doesn't look like there's a path forward for a purely private-sector project--if the building is ever to be used for anything, a meaningful amount of public money is going to have to be ponied up. What would be nice to see is real civic effort going into figuring this out. There are so many possibilities. The Turret Arts Society's plans are good, but the money is lacking. Simply shelving this and letting the building sit in limbo is a terrible, terrible next step. The building backs onto Neptune Theatre, so there seems to be a natural alliance between two arts groups. Can that be leveraged for common purpose or shared costs? I don't know, but right now it looks like the city is going to say, "guess we can't do anything, maybe we'll try to sell it."

I'm hopeful this won't turn out like Bloomfield (the importance of the building and its location both seem like strong strikes against that), but the overall drifting lack of vision and purpose feels familiar. It should not be impossible to find $12 million for a project like this; frankly, if we were in Montreal or some other places, this would have been fixed years ago.

I guess I’m hopeful in that the city identified a problem and is taking some action. Maybe this means that they have finally recognized it as a heritage asset and will move forward with action to bring its condition back to an acceptable level.

I say this as it would seem that the easier political move would be to continue on the status quo and let the current owners run it into the ground while perhaps providing them with small grants to extend things a little. Then once the only way forward was a facade job, the city could say they did their best but the owners dropped the ball… but now we have (yet another) modern building with a historic facade.

Of course maybe this is just creative storytelling on my part, as a Bloomfield situation isn’t out of the question….

[Keith P.]

I guess I am unusual in that I always found the Khyber building not to be an attractive or pleasing design visually, instead being one of those foreboding old buildings that looked like it should be in a horror movie as a place where bad things happen. For HRM to drop 18 mil of our tax dollars on it without any vision, plan, or intended use for it seems wasteful, but then again it would not be unusual for them.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I guess I am unusual in that I always found the Khyber building not to be an attractive or pleasing design visually, instead being one of those foreboding old buildings that looked like it should be in a horror movie as a place where bad things happen. For HRM to drop 18 mil of our tax dollars on it without any vision, plan, or intended use for it seems wasteful, but then again it would not be unusual for them.

But there is a vision, plan and intended use.

[ArchAficionado]

The sum is perpostorous though. You should be able to replicate that building to the smallest detail for less than half that sum, in my opinion. Uncompetitive Gov contracts to burn the tax dollars as usual.

[JET]

Originally Posted by ArchAficionado

The sum is perpostorous though. You should be able to replicate that building to the smallest detail for less than half that sum, in my opinion. Uncompetitive Gov contracts to burn the tax dollars as usual.

Has anyone seen a breakdown of the cost estimate?
Other than the asbestos being dealt wit, what would be the major costs to make it usual; not a showpiece, but usable?
I have always liked the gothic design.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

... Maybe this means that they have finally recognized it as a heritage asset and will move forward with action to bring its condition back to an acceptable level...

I understood this as: HRM will buy back the building, fix the most serious safety issues, and then declare it surplus, for "disposal."