noirish Los Angeles

[ProphetM]

I altered the earlier crop to make the Arcade Depot more visible:

[Flyingwedge]

Originally Posted by Scott Charles

I was searching through this thread for photos of the Stimson Building when I came across this fantastic photo posted by JScott:

Just right of center, the five-story structure is the Bradbury Building, which opened in 1893. Near the left edge of the photo, sandwiched
between the City Hall tower and the Los Angeles Furniture Company/Ville de Paris painted wall sign is the south wall of the old Broadway
Synagogue, which was torn down in 1897. So, a mid-1890s photo.

Has there ever been a movie or an episode of a TV show that was set in 1890s Los Angeles?

I sure can't think of any.

1880s? 1900s? 1910s?

[odinthor]

Back to Pronunciation.

In best Californio/Californian tradition, there has been neither homogeneity nor congruity of opinion about the pronunciation of the name of our fair city. Below, I've put together a number of articles from the Los Angeles Times (the Los Angeles Herald also looked into the matter); but in addition to these, I've glanced over some writings on the Spanish of the New World and of California in particular . . . which makes the matter murkier, as we are cautioned that the conquistadores and colonists did not necessarily (in fact, almost certainly not at all) speak Castilian Spanish, and their colonists consequently did their own varying things to some degree as a result. Evidently Californio Spanish is a recognized historical dialect; but I have thus far been unable to secure specifics about it. Whatever the case, here's a sample of what the Los Angeles Times has had to offer on the matter:


Los Angeles Times, dates as indicated

[ethereal_reality]

.

Originally Posted by ProphetM

I altered the earlier crop to make the Arcade Depot more visible:

I finally see it. Thanks so much, ProphetM.

.

[ethereal_reality]

.

I spied something very cool in this silly shriners photograph from 1938.



eBay


And what, pray-tell, did you find,e_r?


Well, I'll tell you, fellow noirishers.


Court Flight is visible on the hill in the background!



Pretty cool.


But wait! there's also a mystery. (at least for me)


What is this?



It looks like an entrance to a building - BUT where's the building? ... If I didn't know better I'd think it was the entrance to a tunnel...(did someone say tunnel?)




I almost forgot:...Here's the information about the photograph of the hungover goofballs Shriners.




Clever? . . or dumbest idea, ever?


.

[Scott Charles]

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge

Has there ever been a movie or an episode of a TV show that was set in 1890s Los Angeles?

I sure can't think of any.

1880s? 1900s? 1910s?

Not knowing the answer myself, I decided to ask ChatGPT. ChatGPT is certainly not infallible, I've seen it make some HUGE mistakes when I've used it. But here's what it told me:

Originally Posted by ChatGPT

.
Short, blunt summary first: there are only a few clear fictional screenworks whose stories take place in nineteenth century Los Angeles (or the pueblo that became Los Angeles) and most of them are either Zorro stories (early 1800s / Spanish-era), a handful of movies that place their plots in mid-19th-century California, or silent/early features that treat "Old California" more broadly rather than modern-city Los Angeles.

What I found (most relevant items)

1. Zorro (character - many films & the 1957 TV series) - Zorro stories are explicitly set in the Pueblo de Los Angeles during the early 19th century (around the 1820s). That counts as fictional Los Angeles in the 1800s. Examples: the 1957 Walt Disney TV series Zorro (set ca. 1820) and many film versions (e.g., The Mark of Zorro).
   
2. Old Los Angeles (1948) - a studio Western whose story is set in 1848 Los Angeles (fictionalized). It's a mainstream feature that puts its plot in mid-19th-century Los Angeles.
   
3. In Old California (1910, D. W. Griffith) - a short silent melodrama about the Mexican/Spanish era of California; historically placed in 19th-century California and notable as the first film shot in
4. Hollywood. It's fiction set in early 1800s California (Spanish/Mexican era).
   
5. Ramona adaptations (1910, 1928, 1936, etc.) — based on Helen Hunt Jackson's 1884 novel about Southern California in the 19th century. These are fictional dramas set in nineteenth-century Southern California (often filmed around L.A./Hollywood). They're regional-sometimes the action is explicitly in or near Los Angeles, sometimes in nearby locales.

Things I did not find

• No large body of well-known feature films or TV series set specifically in Los Angeles for the late-19th century (the 1880s-1890s) beyond the mid-century Spanish/Mexican era examples above and the Zorro mythos. Much more common are works set in early Spanish-era (Zorro) or 20th century L.A (1920s-1940s onward).

Why this is probably sparse

• Los Angeles's cinematic mythology usually centers on Hollywood's 20th-century rise (1910s-1930s) or on the earlier Spanish/Mexican ranchos (which produce Zorro/Ramona-type stories). The turn-of-the-century city (1880-1900) hasn't been a common setting for fictional dramatic features or TV - at least not in widely indexed, mainstream filmographies.

(To be clear, I started by asking about 1880-1910 Los Angeles, in which case ChatGPT found zero results. So I amended my question to address the wider time period of the entire 19th century.)

Furthermore, ChatGPT asked me about five variations of “I can check blahblahblah source to see if I can find anything else - would you like me to do that?” I responded YES every time, and still, no results were found.

So, as incredible as it sounds, there appears to be ZERO movies, serials, or TV series that take place in the period of 1800-1910, at least if one is going to believe ChatGPT.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Los_Angeles

[Flyingwedge]

Thanks for looking into this, Scott Charles. That's a big gap in LA history with no movies set here.

[ProphetM]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

.

I spied something very cool in this silly shriners photograph from 1938.



eBay


And what, pray-tell, did you find,e_r?


Well, I'll tell you, fellow noirishers.


Court Flight is visible on the hill in the background!



Pretty cool.


But wait! there's also a mystery. (at least for me)


What is this?



It looks like an entrance to a building - BUT where's the building? ... If I didn't know better I'd think it was the entrance to a tunnel...(did someone say tunnel?)




I almost forgot:...Here's the information about the photograph of the hungover goofballs Shriners.




Clever? . . or dumbest idea, ever?


.

In regards to that mystery bit of building, it might be what remains of the Franklin Hotel at 141 N. Broadway, and maybe 143 N. Broadway. A view of Broadway from much earlier (circa 1899) can be found at Shorpy: https://www.shorpy.com/node/7259

There is a full-sized photo link there, but here is a medium-sized crop:



As you can see this predates Court Flight, almost 40 years before the Shriners photo. Even at full size, it's not close enough to see whether the first floor of the Franklin matches that piece of building in the Shriners photo, but it might. This would require that the Franklin Hotel was at some point demolished down to just one story. I haven't found very much about the Franklin Hotel but maybe one of you here can turn something up.

[[email protected]]

When I was young The Hill was being changed, houses and former mansions were being torn down. Thank goodness photos still exist of the beautiful times and the later times when it was blighted. Shorpy.com at times displays early day L.A. and it is a treat to see them.

[Martin Pal]

Originally Posted by Scott Charles

So, as incredible as it sounds, there appears to be ZERO movies, serials, or TV series that take place in the period of 1800-1910, at least if one is going to believe ChatGPT.

Yes, the only thing I thought of before reading your whole post was ZERO, I mean Zorro.

Zorro takes place in early 19th-century Spanish California, primarily in and around the city of Los Angeles. Most adaptations are set between the 1820s and 1830s, a period when California was a Spanish colony under the rule of Mexico before Mexican independence.

[Scott Charles]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

But wait! there's also a mystery. (at least for me)

What is this?



It looks like an entrance to a building - BUT where's the building? ... If I didn't know better I'd think it was the entrance to a tunnel...(did someone say tunnel?)

This has gotten me wrapped up than I'd care to admit, _er_... these things intrigue me more than any Ellery Queen mystery!

To my eyes, the mystery object looks something like this: (please forgive the quick Photoshop mockup)



Is anybody else seeing the same thing, or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

The way it's so dark inside, it does look like a tunnel, _er_. But at least in the photos I have, I can't find anything on Court Hill that resembles it in the slightest.

I did a fairly extensive search last night for “ZUHRAH TEMPLE SHRINERS STORM LOS ANGELES CONVENTION”, and while I did find more photos of the event (such as this one), none of them included Court Hill.

I have my doubts about the arch being part of the Franklin Hotel, for two reasons. 1, I can't find any part of the Franklin that looks like this. And 2, our mystery arch seems to be halfway up Court Hill, not ground-level on Broadway, like the Franklin was.

I'll admit, I'm completely flummoxed.

[Scott Charles]

Originally Posted by ProphetM

I altered the earlier crop to make the Arcade Depot more visible:

Man, look at the SIZE of that thing!!!

[ProphetM]

Originally Posted by Scott Charles

This has gotten me wrapped up than I'd care to admit, _er_... these things intrigue me more than any Ellery Queen mystery!

To my eyes, the mystery object looks something like this: (please forgive the quick Photoshop mockup)



Is anybody else seeing the same thing, or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

The way it's so dark inside, it does look like a tunnel, _er_. But at least in the photos I have, I can't find anything on Court Hill that resembles it in the slightest.

I did a fairly extensive search last night for “ZUHRAH TEMPLE SHRINERS STORM LOS ANGELES CONVENTION”, and while I did find more photos of the event (such as this one), none of them included Court Hill.

I have my doubts about the arch being part of the Franklin Hotel, for two reasons. 1, I can't find any part of the Franklin that looks like this. And 2, our mystery arch seems to be halfway up Court Hill, not ground-level on Broadway, like the Franklin was.

I'll admit, I'm completely flummoxed.

This is the part of the Franklin that I mean:



It's not a great match but we're also talking about nearly 40 years, and too small of a picture to tell much detail. I haven't been able to find any more pictures of the Franklin, or of what might have come after it, if anything.

I will keep looking for photos of the Franklin and/or that property on Broadway.

[ProphetM]

Update!

After determining that the Law Building was addressed 139 N. Broadway, I went on a search for that building and found this photo, showing the Law Building and its small next-door neighbor, which I believe to be a great match for the building from the Shriners photo.


https://tessa2.lapl.org/digital/collection/photos/id/116473/rec/1

I haven't determined what that small building is yet, but it evidently is the replacement for the Franklin Hotel, which was on property addressed 141 and 143 N. Broadway. On a different photo I found of the back side of these buildings, the smaller one had some kind of title company in it in the mid-60s.

I'm finding more photos of this building, including one where it and the Law Building are being demolished in 1968, but so far the photo descriptions never name the building - it is always such a small part of photos compared to all the other buildings.
https://tessa2.lapl.org/digital/collection/photos/id/124110/rec/10

[ProphetM]

Found it! It was the Lawyers Title Guaranty Company. Here is finally a good picture of it from 11/15/1960, from the Huntington Digital Library.


https://hdl.huntington.org/digital/collection/p15150coll2/id/7955

Official Address was 145 N. Broadway.

[Flyingwedge]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

.
What is this?



.

Lawyers Title Guaranty Company? (on the right of the 12-story building):



October 29, 1943 from City Hall @ UCLA


At left, 1958:



UC11738059 @ USC


Built 1927:



October 9, 1927, Los Angeles Times @ Newspapers.com


Torn down 1968:



00110347 @ LAPL


LATE EDIT: That's a great color photo, ProphetM!

[ScottyB]

One more from 1953 with a nice view of Bunker Hill and the slope where the Court Flight track ran.



CSL

[Martin Pal]

I don't recall anyone on this forum lamenting that the Hall of Records building was demolished (1973); am I correct? The fact that it's positioning became awkward as the city changed (and it's design) just made it seem out of place. I read that they actually studied repositioning it, but the cost would've been quite prohibitive.

It amuses me that you can see this building, the lower half, in the first shot of the opening credits of Seasons 3&4 of Get Smart.

• Video Link

[Martin Pal]

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge

1958:


UC11738059 @ USC
_______________________________________________________________

Introducing the Dodgers to Los Angeles, Opening Day April 18, 1958.


Dodgers Parade, November 3, 2025... Celebrating Back-to-Back World Series Titles! (I was there at Temple Street and Grand Avenue!)


CNN

[Scott Charles]

Originally Posted by ProphetM

Found it! It was the Lawyers Title Guaranty Company. Here is finally a good picture of it from 11/15/1960, from the Huntington Digital Library.


https://hdl.huntington.org/digital/collection/p15150coll2/id/7955

Official Address was 145 N. Broadway.

Amazing work, ProphetM & Flyingwedge!

I wonder if the Cap 'n Quill in the above photo has anything to do with the Cap 'n Quill that used to be in the Fine Arts building...