O-Train Line 2/4 [Stage 2 | Greenboro to Limebank/Airport] | In Service

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

They've already cut service to 24 minutes at times it seems, with low ridership periods as a justification.

Again, as I posted above the service reductions are temporary to allow for the installation of wayside equipment.
https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/o-train-line-2-service-adjustments-in-july/

I don't know where the idea that this has anything to do with ridership came from.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Again, as I posted above the service reductions are temporary to allow for the installation of wayside equipment.
https://www.octranspo.com/en/news/article/o-train-line-2-service-adjustments-in-july/

I don't know where the idea that this has anything to do with ridership came from.

From your last response.

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Okay. I never suggested that it was untrue.

There was however a key piece of context missing about why this is true, which is also a true statement.

I don't think it has ever been in question whether OC Transpo could remove trains from service, but the implication that this may not be temporary is uninformed FUD. If you are aware that there is change in service, then why would you openly speculate about the circumstances of those changes in such a cynical way without even doing the bare minimum amount of research into it?

It is one thing to complain openly about the state of the system, it is another to rely on personal anecdotes and straight up misinformation to forward those narratives. This also isn't new; it's a consistent pattern of behaviour. So I think calling it a joke, while certainly pointed, isn't an unfair criticism of the content of those posts.

I think we're all unhappy about the state of transit in Ottawa, but most of us aren't making up reasons for it at the same time.


Call it mud if you like, but I'm slinging facts.
If blind cynicism is a now a trusted source on this forum then we may as well pack it up.

[Richard Eade]

I think that larger capacity trains came about because of the higher cost of operating frequent lower-capacity vehicles. Labour costs are a HUGE on-going expense, and a City responsibility; while Capital costs are generally one-time items and the City gets to spend 33-cent dollars (if there is equal cost-sharing between the government levels).

What we have on the trains was demanded by the union representing the vehicle operators. The City mused about fully automated operation – a la Skytrain – which is another reason that the train lines were designed to be completely segregated. In fact, the Line 1 trains are currently pretty much fully programmed in their movements. (The operator only needs to keep pushing a ‘Dead-Man Switch’ every few seconds to keep the train active. If these switches were disabled, the trains could run the service without onboard operators.) However, the union made the issue into a strike-threat, insisting that there MUST be operators on every vehicle – whether they actually ‘drive’ the trains or not. Remembering the December 2008 strike quickly forced the City to acquiesce to the union’s demand.

Ergo, the City is locked into having operators on EVERY vehicle. Thus, to lower costs, large infrequent vehicle are used – to minimize the cost of operators. Although many of us like to place blame on the City for a lot, some things really were beyond its control.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

From your last response.

The key bit of context was the wayside equipment installation..? I'm not sure I understand otherwise.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I think that larger capacity trains came about because of the higher cost of operating frequent lower-capacity vehicles. Labour costs are a HUGE on-going expense, and a City responsibility; while Capital costs are generally one-time items and the City gets to spend 33-cent dollars (if there is equal cost-sharing between the government levels).

What we have on the trains was demanded by the union representing the vehicle operators. The City mused about fully automated operation – a la Skytrain – which is another reason that the train lines were designed to be completely segregated. In fact, the Line 1 trains are currently pretty much fully programmed in their movements. (The operator only needs to keep pushing a ‘Dead-Man Switch’ every few seconds to keep the train active. If these switches were disabled, the trains could run the service without onboard operators.) However, the union made the issue into a strike-threat, insisting that there MUST be operators on every vehicle – whether they actually ‘drive’ the trains or not. Remembering the December 2008 strike quickly forced the City to acquiesce to the union’s demand.

Ergo, the City is locked into having operators on EVERY vehicle. Thus, to lower costs, large infrequent vehicle are used – to minimize the cost of operators. Although many of us like to place blame on the City for a lot, some things really were beyond its control.

Given the physical constraints of the Trillium Line, using longer trains was a far more cost effective way to deliver the necessary capacity for the project's original planning horizon.

Yes, doubling Walkley is a small incremental cost that could have given us more frequent trains, but the same short trains every 10 minutes isn't even close to the capacity that double length trains give us at 12 minute headways.

Beyond that, driverless operations on the Trillium line would necessitate the city doing all of the leg work towards becoming the first federally regulated rail line in the country with automatic train operations, which would come at a steep price with a ton of added complexity.

While you can argue that capital costs are easier for the city to justify, there is still a limit to the amount the city is willing to spend and frankly the technical and regularity complexity the city _should_ even try to take on.

Nevermind the fact that driverless trains to not fully eliminate staffing requirements, at least for any decent transit system.

[Richard Eade]

Looking at the various passenger capacities:
The Talent had a passenger capacity of 285 (135 seated / 150 standing) and ran every 15 minutes, so up to 1,140 passengers per hour per direction (ppdph);
The LINT 41 holds 260 passengers (115 seated / 145 standing), but ran every 12 minutes, so up to 1,300 ppdph;
The FLIRT carries 420 passengers (200 seated / 220 standing), also running every 12 minutes, so 2,100 ppdph.

If the originally promised 7.5-min headway had been accomplished when the O-Train was ‘Expanded’, the LINT 41 would have provided 2,080 ppdph. About the same as the 12-min FLIRT.
But that would have involved longer sections of twinned track – and it would have doubled the labour cost for operators.

Regardless of what was ‘promised’, we have what we have now. I am suggesting that the number of people heading to the core can be separated from the people heading to, say Carleton University. Thus, 10-min FLIRT (electric to downtown, diesel to Carleton?) service on EACH BRANCH would suffice for decades. If the FLIRT frequency was increased to every 10 minutes, that would result in 2,520 ppdph. If a FLIRT ran every 10 minutes from Barrhaven Centre to downtown, AND a FLIRT ran every 10 minutes from, say Riverside South to Bayview (thus 5-minute service between Riverside South and Mooney’s Bay / Baseline BRT) there should be LOTS of capacity.

Therefore, my plan would be to ‘tweak’ the tracks from Bayview to Mooney’s Bay to attain 10-min service on the FLIRT. Double track from Billings Bridge south along the existing Transitway RoW to South Keys. Bore and construct the Bank Street Subway. While we have the subway TBM, also bore tunnels under the airport to Riverside South to put the Airport ONTO the main line.

[ponyboycurtis]

Still coming across more quirks with electronic signage every time I use this thing. Walked to Carling from downtown area after fireworks along the MUP. Love that the thing is actually lit up. I would like to see that lighting continue along the path towards Pimisi though. You get about 50 meters of lights going west of Pimisi and then it goes dark.

Anyhow.

Arrive at Carling and I see a northbound train is 1 minute out and there is no mention of SB train. The overhead sign continued to show Bayview train 1min until about 6 minutes later the SB train shows up.

I then arrive at South Keys. Once again sorry for my broken camera.



So Line 4 ends at Uplands now.



Line 2 NB ends at Gladstone. Help me make sense of all of this.



I will pretend to ignore the grammar, but what elevators are we talking about here? There are 2 elevators at SK and I def saw somebody using them on my way in to watch fireworks.

I also think its very cute there is no mention of LRT service short turning in the east end this weekend. I would like to think a NB train arriving at Bayview would have an audible announcement stating as such combined with a visual announcement. Might as well double down and have an announcement in the station as well.

And speaking of Bayview. Why does the single train EB stop at the far end of the platform from the escalators and stairs? Everybody had to run to make the connection as the train was arriving at the same time.

I don't use OC often or for anything other than leisure and yet every time I find weird little ill though out things like this almost without fail.

That said, Line 2 trains might be built like steakhouse but she handles like a bistro.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

That said, Line 2 trains might be built like steakhouse but she handles like a bistro.

[kmcamp]

And speaking of Bayview. Why does the single train EB stop at the far end of the platform from the escalators and stairs? Everybody had to run to make the connection as the train was arriving at the same time.

In answer this, it's because the transecure area is at that end. They should have added more vertical circulation when they expanded the station, but they didn't

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

In answer this, it's because the transecure area is at that end. They should have added more vertical circulation when they expanded the station, but they didn't

Well I don't think anyone planned on running single trains either but your answer makes perfect sense, thank you.

They used to have things on the ground that said which end of the platform was for single trains and also where to line up for the doors.

I really dislike so many things about our mainlines. We can't even get an indicator as to which side of the train to exit on, let alone 3 dollar screens on each end of the car.

Communication is far and away the worst aspect of this dogwater transit service system wide. Having real time GPS screens on trunk service like the 88 or 85 should be a given at each bus stop along the way so, as we have all discussed... LET ME MAKE A REAL TIME DECISION!!!!

The screen at the topside faregates at Greenboro has been broken for a long time now. If I goto Loblaws and then Bulk Barn I could take a bus back or easily walk.

Please don't make me take my phone out and do a bunch of 🞵🞵🞵🞵 when I am less than 50 meters from the station entrance.

[daud]

Haven’t been following the pax numbers on line 2 much but wanted to mention I passed by Bowesville station at about 4pm today and the parking was completely full. Seems like the park and ride is successful.

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by daud

Haven’t been following the pax numbers on line 2 much but wanted to mention I passed by Bowesville station at about 4pm today and the parking was completely full. Seems like the park and ride is successful.

Kemptville just bought a bus in June to run to limebank station.

Another addition to the unorganized OGA Go Bus system.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/no...dding-bus-route-to-limebank-lrt-station/

[kmcamp]

Despite all it's flaws, Line 2 certainly seems to be a ridership success story. I'm writing this on a standing room only train, which happens more and more often.

Even Line 4, while far from busy, seems to have ever increasing ridership

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Despite all it's flaws, Line 2 certainly seems to be a ridership success story. I'm writing this on a standing room only train, which happens more and more often.

Even Line 4, while far from busy, seems to have ever increasing ridership

True.

That being said the last SB trip from Bayview at 11:55pm is just.. stupid?

Also.. they still can't seem to figure out their electronic signage half the time.

The ride itself is so nice though. I detest the LRT when comparing vehicles. We need to modify Bayview station to we can send those Spirit trains into the Ottawa river and create a fish sanctuary.

Oh. One of the washrooms at Bayview station not only did not have toilet paper the other day but the ENTIRE dispenser was missing off the wall.

We have truly lost the narrative. How much did we e-transfer to Renee in Montreal before parting ways?

[lrt's friend]

The trains need to run 5 to 10 minutes faster end to end. This is still mainly for Carleton students. The last time I was at Leitrim, the trains were screwed up.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The trains need to run 5 to 10 minutes faster end to end. This is still mainly for Carleton students. The last time I was at Leitrim, the trains were screwed up.

It's still far better then the "Worse way to Bus" options, even going downtown.

If I were to avoid Line 2, I'd now have a bus-bus-train trip to downtown, which would take 15 minutes longer than my current trip

That might count for some of the ridership. I read an article about people taking the 110 from Kanata to Limebank to get to work in Little Italy, because going through Tunney's is so horrible now

[lrt's friend]

Why would Tunneys bé so horrible? The 110 to Limebank is terribly round about and the service is not fréquent.

As far as Line 2 to Downtown, i still think the 98 is significantly faster. It is only 10 minutes from South Keys to Hurdman, closer to 20 to Bayview.

As I said, they need to cut the travel time on Line 2 but that will never happen until it is double tracked, not in my life time.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why would Tunneys bé so horrible? The 110 to Limebank is terribly round about and the service is not fréquent.
.

Between the construction and transitway shutdown in the west, and big route cuts it's apparently a nightmare. I don't travel that way, so cannot confirm myself

https://capitalcurrent.ca/commuters-from-west-ottawa-share-frustration-about-unreliable-buses/

[BanjoUnchained]

From OC Transpo on Twitter:

Line 2: Due to emergency repairs needed by Rogers, starting this evening and continuing tomorrow, Monday:

⚠️Trains are running in both directions between:
➡️ Limebank & Greenboro
➡️ Walkley & Bayview
⚠️R2 bus service is running between:
➡️ South Keys & Carleton

This is required to allow Rogers to complete emergency repair work near Walkley station and is not due to any Line 2 system issue. Train service must be adjusted to ensure the safety of technicians working near the track.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Despite all it's flaws, Line 2 certainly seems to be a ridership success story. I'm writing this on a standing room only train, which happens more and more often.

Even Line 4, while far from busy, seems to have ever increasing ridership

Hope City gets a move on with some upgrades ASAP. It will get dangerously overcrowded within the next few years with the new Civic and major OCH development at Gladstone.