Canadian Airport Thread II

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Hoekstra is a fool who doesn't know what he is talking about. Pre-clearance isn't going anywhere. Forcing Canadians into customs stateside would massively overload US based facilities. The US uses pre-clearance for a reason. Canadians represent like 30% of international visits to the US.

The most I could see is them pulling it from a few smaller Canadian airports, but even then I would be surprised.

if Shannon airport in Ireland can support Pre-clearance, I'm sure the major Canadian airports can.

What Hoekstra saw was likely a report stating that US pre-clearance traffic was declining precipitously in Canadian airports and that the cost-per-passenger was increasing as a result to operate the facilities. The capital cost of shifting clearances back to domestic soil for Canadian trips (requiring large expansions of customs areas) and the likelyhood that the drop in traffic is transitory and unlikely to persist over the long term means the US would be unlikely to actually pull the service.

Yes and the Canadian coverage of this has been ridiculous. This isn't some favor the US does for us. It is convenient for direct flights to the US but actually the opposite is true for connections which sure are the bulk of travellers but for the Asia and European transit travellers it would be easier to not have to do customs in the middle of their journey. The same is true when smaller Canadian airport travellers have to go via Toronto. Meanwhile for those from Canada transiting to South America it is very convenient. Now which country's airlines benefit from the latter and former?

[casper]

As we debate the "enhancements" in customer service coming from WestJet, let me share this video that showed up in my feed.

Wardar was well respected for their inflight service. I am shocked looking at the entre they serve in economy and look at that black forest cake. That is closer to what Air Canada called business class today.

• Video Link

[whatnext]

Just one more reason not to fly Werstjet. More details here:

Reclining on your next WestJet flight may mean having to upgrade seats
By Ari Rabinovitch Global News
Posted September 26, 2025 11:03 am EST
3 min read

Changes are coming to some WestJet flights, including updated economy seats with non-adjustable recline in most areas of that class.…

https://globalnews.ca/news/11450528/westjet-new-seats-no-recline/amp/

[Taeolas]

Yeah, I seem to recall when Westjet started up way back in the day, it was pushing its service quality. It seems when it rose up to National Carrier status, penny pinching and cost cutting brought it down to the AC level in the race to mediocrity.

Porter seems to be riding the Start up Quality wave now; hopefully they can maintain those levels, but I wouldn't be surprised if in another decade we'll be lamenting on the service Porter used to have, before they became the #2 airline behind AC-WJ.

[SignalHillHiker]

jeddy1989 is on his way back from Portugal for a quick visit. Flight from Lisbon to London was delayed, and someone stole his carry-on (never heard tell of this happening before). Luckily his passport, etc., was on his person - but he has no clothes or anything. Missed his connection to St. John's. Now the best they can do is get him into Halifax tomorrow, and finally back in St. John's 10:30 p.m. tomorrow evening. One and a half days off his week home. Brutal!

[thenoflyzone]

2025 J.D. Power North American airports Satisfaction Study surveys are out.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2025-north-america-airport-satisfaction-study

Failing grades, barely passing or 70s are what we have. No one scored 80% (800 out of 1000) or more, which speaks volumes to the state of airports in North America.

This being said, Canada's airports are particularly bad:

YYZ second to last in the mega airport list, only ahead of EWR.
YUL second to last in the large airport list, only ahead of PHL.
YYC only 2 spots ahead of YUL, so at the bottom of the pack.
YEG dead last in medium airport category.
YOW only 2 spots ahead of YEG, at the bottom of the pack.

Only YVR received decent scores compared to its peers, but with a score of only 67%, it's nothing to brag about either.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

2025 J.D. Power North American airports Satisfaction Study surveys are out.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2025-north-america-airport-satisfaction-study

Failing grades, barely passing or 70s are what we have. No one scored 80% (800 out of 1000) or more, which speaks volumes to the state of airports in North America.

This being said, Canada's airports are particularly bad:

YYZ second to last in the mega airport list, only ahead of EWR.
YUL second to last in the large airport list, only ahead of PHL.
YYC only 2 spots ahead of YUL, so at the bottom of the pack.
YEG dead last in medium airport category.
YOW only 2 spots ahead of YEG, at the bottom of the pack.

Only YVR received decent scores compared to its peers, but with a score of only 67%, it's nothing to brag about either.

Interesting. In the case of YOW, they’ve won so many ASQ awards, which is the Airports Council International surveys that at least 200 airports globally participate in.

[Calfan12]

Air Transat, WestJet re-evaluate flights to the U.S. as demand drops.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/atlantic/article/...uate-flight-offers-to-the-united-states/

This Winter season will see (some) cuts on US flights ✈️ by Canadian airlines still.

But it will be done 1 month at time (depending on demand)✅

Consolidating of more US nonstop flights by Canadian Airlines through Toronto YYZ, Vancouver YVR, Montreal YUL & Calgary YYC Hubs - as good example : Air Transat Moncton- Orlando route is cut.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

This being said, Canada's airports are particularly bad:

YYZ second to last in the mega airport list, only ahead of EWR.
YUL second to last in the large airport list, only ahead of PHL.
YYC only 2 spots ahead of YUL, so at the bottom of the pack.
YEG dead last in medium airport category.
YOW only 2 spots ahead of YEG, at the bottom of the pack.

Only YVR received decent scores compared to its peers, but with a score of only 67%, it's nothing to brag about either.

This all matches my experiences pretty closely, except for YYC, where I have never had any problems. I'd put YYZ and YUL down the list, while YVR is actually pretty good. For the size of the city YVR is also close to downtown and has excellent transit.

But do any Canadian airports actually offer reasonably-priced, reliable air travel, along with truly pleasant places to spend time while you wait, or sensible food/shopping options? Not really. They feel like an unholy hybrid of low-bid government-mandated service and extractive monopolistic corporate operation.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Yeah, I seem to recall when Westjet started up way back in the day, it was pushing its service quality. It seems when it rose up to National Carrier status, penny pinching and cost cutting brought it down to the AC level in the race to mediocrity.

Porter seems to be riding the Start up Quality wave now; hopefully they can maintain those levels, but I wouldn't be surprised if in another decade we'll be lamenting on the service Porter used to have, before they became the #2 airline behind AC-WJ.

Yeah, they're all over the map.

[casper]

Originally Posted by someone123

This all matches my experiences pretty closely, except for YYC, where I have never had any problems. I'd put YYZ and YUL down the list, while YVR is actually pretty good. For the size of the city YVR is also close to downtown and has excellent transit.

But do any Canadian airports actually offer reasonably-priced, reliable air travel, along with truly pleasant places to spend time while you wait, or sensible food/shopping options? Not really. They feel like an unholy hybrid of low-bid government-mandated service and extractive monopolistic corporate operation.

YYC is far worse than either YYZ or YUL.

Connecting passengers don't had a dedicated US customs lane. They are mixed with local YYC departing customers.

Far more walking in making a connection. Flights are spread across multiple concourses all over the place.

Signage between D and the rest of domestic terminal is confusing.

Lounges close early before the last bank of connecting flights depart.

[thenoflyzone]

I’ll bet 100$ that the main reason for YUL’s poor performance is due to the inadequate road access to the airport. Monster traffic jams, for no other reason than lack of lanes leading to the airport. Another reason is probably the long customs wait times for arriving international passengers. YUL is a victim of its own success in both those regards, but it failed to adapt in time.

And it’s only going to get worse.

As of October 15, the multi level car park will be closed. All cars need to be out by November 1. The whole thing is coming down.

Soon after, once the remote drop off area is built, the departure ramp is getting demolished. REM won’t be online until 2027, if that. It will help, but it’s not enough. The vast majority of people come to the airport by car, and all those people won’t have direct access to the terminal.

True definition of a shit show. And people think it’s bad now ! They haven’t seen anything yet…..

J.D 2026-2030, I’d be surprised if YUL gets 300 out of 1000 !

If you’re connecting via YUL, you won’t see any of it. Those passengers will be happy. That’s about it. Hence the 30%. If you’re an arriving or departing pax, the experience will be abysmal until the REM opens.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by casper

As we debate the "enhancements" in customer service coming from WestJet, let me share this video that showed up in my feed.

Wardar was well respected for their inflight service. I am shocked looking at the entre they serve in economy and look at that black forest cake. That is closer to what Air Canada called business class today.

• Video Link

I recall flying them as a kid, where received a full-sized chocolate bar which made me a customer for life. Alas.

[Calfan12]

VIRGIN ATLANTIC NS26 TORONTO CAPACITY CHANGES

Virgin Atlantic during the weekend of 27SEP25’s schedule update filed aircraft changes on London Heathrow – Toronto route, during Northern summer 2026 season. The Skyteam member from 05MAY26 plans to operate 397-seater Airbus A350-1000 aircraft on daily basis, replacing 787-9.

VS147 LHR1800 – 2050YYZ 351 D
VS148 YYZ2240 – 1050+1LHR 351 D

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/250929-vsns26yyz

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

2025 J.D. Power North American airports Satisfaction Study surveys are out.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2025-north-america-airport-satisfaction-study

Failing grades, barely passing or 70s are what we have. No one scored 80% (800 out of 1000) or more, which speaks volumes to the state of airports in North America.

This being said, Canada's airports are particularly bad:

YYZ second to last in the mega airport list, only ahead of EWR.
YUL second to last in the large airport list, only ahead of PHL.
YYC only 2 spots ahead of YUL, so at the bottom of the pack.
YEG dead last in medium airport category.
YOW only 2 spots ahead of YEG, at the bottom of the pack.

Only YVR received decent scores compared to its peers, but with a score of only 67%, it's nothing to brag about either.

I wonder how accurate those surveys are? I've been to many of the American airports on the lists and my own personal experience doesn't equate to the rankings.
In my own experience the airports that have stood out as significantly better than Canadian airports are Asian airports. I haven't found that the case with European or American airports. Just my thoughts, but I can't help but wonder the accuracy of the surveys.

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by casper

YYC is far worse than either YYZ or YUL.

Connecting passengers don't had a dedicated US customs lane. They are mixed with local YYC departing customers.

Far more walking in making a connection. Flights are spread across multiple concourses all over the place.

Signage between D and the rest of domestic terminal is confusing.

Lounges close early before the last bank of connecting flights depart.

Are you talking about customs itself or the CATSA security screening? USCBP itself doesn’t want a separated connections line up and security screening did have a dedicated connections line prior to the pandemic, but we’ve been told now CATSA doesn’t have the staffing power to run it. They still use it for International to US connections (ex. CDG-YYC-LAX). They currently have to staff 5 separate security checkpoints now, but it will be reduced to 3 once the centralized domestic screening opens.

And the walk between domestic and Transborder is pretty similar to that in YVR. YYZ terminal 3 though….. they also have departures spread out, I’ve had nasty walks in between domestic flights.

[SignalHillHiker]

Jeddy1989 made it to HFX (missed direct flight to St. John's dye to delay leaving Lisbon). They've got two flights to St. John's at basically the same time and some passengers are hilariously confused lol

Edit: NVM. They're Norwegians and Germans so it makes sense.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

I recall flying them as a kid, where received a full-sized chocolate bar which made me a customer for life. Alas.

The one flight vacation we took when I was a kid was to Florida. I was almost 10, and we flew Wardair. My parents were raving about the Filet Mignon we were served, and I didn't fully understand that until years later.

[casper]

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

Are you talking about customs itself or the CATSA security screening? USCBP itself doesn’t want a separated connections line up and security screening did have a dedicated connections line prior to the pandemic, but we’ve been told now CATSA doesn’t have the staffing power to run it. They still use it for International to US connections (ex. CDG-YYC-LAX). They currently have to staff 5 separate security checkpoints now, but it will be reduced to 3 once the centralized domestic screening opens.

And the walk between domestic and Transborder is pretty similar to that in YVR. YYZ terminal 3 though….. they also have departures spread out, I’ve had nasty walks in between domestic flights.

Domestic to US. In Vancouver and Toronto its segregated between connecting and local passengers. In YYC, you exist and end up in the same line with local passengers. Minimum connection time is 1 hour. That can be challenging.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by casper

As we debate the "enhancements" in customer service coming from WestJet, let me share this video that showed up in my feed.

Wardar was well respected for their inflight service. I am shocked looking at the entre they serve in economy and look at that black forest cake. That is closer to what Air Canada called business class today.

• Video Link

That was excellent and at the 47 minute mark the WD VP nails the prediction for the future.