Statistics Canada Reports II

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

Calgary has really been improving in recent years but I don't feel like it's commensurate with the rapid growth of the metro area, meaning that the suburbs expand even faster than the central areas improve. Another issue is that LRT development there got bogged down due to politics. But I think in the long run it will end up improving a lot, and it's impressive how functional the infrastructure is there given all the growth. I don't go to Edmonton as much and haven't been to Ottawa in ages so won't comment on them.

No, it hasn't been commensurate, The city is 2.5x bigger than when I moved there as a teenager, but it's not 2.5x livelier.

However, it seems like the pace of inner-city residential construction has increased in the past several years, and I think the city is approaching more of a real step-change in its overall level of vibrancy. I think the Calgary of 2030 will feel substantially more vibrant than the Calgary of 2025, rather than incrementally. (That's the vibe I'm feeling, anyway.)

Edmonton, however, seems like it might actually be going the other way. But I also haven't been there in years, so those are secondhand impressions.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

No, it hasn't been commensurate, The city is 2.5x bigger than when I moved there as a teenager, but it's not 2.5x livelier.

However, it seems like the pace of inner-city residential construction has increased in the past several years, and I think the city is approaching more of a real step-change in its overall level of vibrancy. I think the Calgary of 2030 will feel substantially more vibrant than the Calgary of 2025, rather than incrementally. (That's the vibe I'm feeling, anyway.)

Edmonton, however, seems like it might actually be going the other way. But I also haven't been there in years, so those are secondhand impressions.

I was in downtown Edmonton in June 2024 on a weekday during lunch, and it was abnormally quiet. I didn't count, but I think I saw maybe 30 people walking around. I'm not sure if that's normal, but I was pretty surprised by how desolate it felt.

Downtown Edmonton has a ton of potential, though. It feels like a blank canvas that could develop into an extraordinary urban area. I'm not sure what's in the pipeline, but it's my downtown dark horse.

[kora]

Originally Posted by giallo

Downtown Edmonton has a ton of potential, though. It feels like a blank canvas that could develop into an extraordinary urban area. I'm not sure what's in the pipeline, but it's my downtown dark horse.

I lived in downtown Edmonton in the 80s and it was more lively back then - or maybe just as lively as it is today. Hard to say. It's had potential for decades which has never amounted to anything much.

There have been attempts to revive that downtown in the 80s with a shiny underground subway system, in the 90s with a new city hall, in the 00s a fancy new museum and arts centre. More recently with an arena district, remade library, new streetscape design for Jasper Avenue, new light rail line, a funicular, and more residential towers. The list of initiatives and effort is endless. All great, but it hasn't amounted to much change in vibrancy.

They have tried a lot .... but Edmontonians don't want to live or go downtown much. They are suburban, anti-city folk, for the most part.

[Innsertnamehere]

Ottawa is pretty vibrant and has a healthy inner-city population, from my experience, though I am frustrated as whole by how much new apartment construction occurs in the suburbs instead of the central city which limits the overall vibrancy potential.

Calgary has the most potential out of the three, IMO - it just needs a lot more new residential units brought online. It is slowly happening - but too slowly for my tastes.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by giallo

I was in downtown Edmonton in June 2024 on a weekday during lunch, and it was abnormally quiet. I didn't count, but I think I saw maybe 30 people walking around. I'm not sure if that's normal, but I was pretty surprised by how desolate it felt.

Downtown Edmonton has a ton of potential, though. It feels like a blank canvas that could develop into an extraordinary urban area. I'm not sure what's in the pipeline, but it's my downtown dark horse.

I lived there in 2007 and 2008, and it really seems from these kinds of impressions that the overall state of downtown (quiet, kinda grubby, unfulfilled potential) hasn't changed in all that time. I really do wonder what makes Edmonton stand out that way. I really would have assumed it would follow the trajectory of Calgary--which, as noted below, hasn't exactly exploded with street life, but has definitely moved in the right direction, and I think at an accelerating pace in the past few years.

[DavidK93]

Originally Posted by zoomer

, not the old school Victoria you may have heard about a few decades ago. As for downtown it’s one of the most vibrant/busy in the country per capita (obviously not at big 3 levels) and in western Canada I’d put it after Vancouver.
.

I agree Zoomer. Victoria doesn’t get as much credit as its downtown deserves. The old stereotype of newlyweds and nearly deads is from long time ago.
Honestly, if not for having to cross from the island on the ferry, I could see myself living there.

[DavidK93]

Re: Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa.

From my own experience of having been to all three cities within the last two years, I would say Calgary and Ottawa are fairly comparable, for vibrancy and urbanism etc. They both have their differences, for example, Ottawa is older and seems more charming, but Calgary feels newer and funkier but they both feel about the same level of urban vibrancy to me.
Edmonton is a head scratcher. For example, Calgary’s downtown feels like a completely different from 20 years ago. Edmonton’s feels mostly the same. Also Calgary’s inner city neighborhoods like Kensington and some of those kind of places have built up and evolved much faster. Strange with both cities having grown at a similar pace, albeit Calgary a little bit faster growth.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by svlt

Victoria's growth rate is enormously slow for a city that has the best weather in Canada - a huge selling point for a country starved of a good year round climate - and for being the capital of the third largest province in the country. Something is keeping people out and it isn't just home prices, as Vancouver (and the Lower Mainland as a whole) grows at a significantly faster clip.

That's very subjective. I prefer "real" winters like we have in Montreal and Quebec City over grey, rainy weather. At least you can do winter sports, the city is all white,

Same goes with the summers - I prefer our warmer summers.

To each is own, I guess!

[theman23]

Ottawa seems to have far more inner city housing stock than any of the other cities outside of the top 3. The population is very suburban overall, but the inner city nabes have a healthy amount of local residents to keep the areas alive. Quebec City is tough because it's probably better than Ottawa at its best, but I'd give Ottawa the edge based on the volume of neighbourhoods. Calgary has a lot nice high street type inner city neighbourhoods now but outside of the Beltline and Kensington they're often empty for whatever reason, maybe because the only residential is occupied by boomers in SFHs that are being swallowed by these commercial developments.

I'd probably rank it Ottawa > Quebec City > Calgary. Victoria is nice but very overrated on this forum and clearly a rung below.

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

No, it hasn't been commensurate, The city is 2.5x bigger than when I moved there as a teenager, but it's not 2.5x livelier.

It depends what part of the city also. For me the population has increased about 50% since I moved here in 2010, but neighborhoods like Mission, Inglewood, Marda Loop and Bridgeland have more than doubled in activity, and in some cases tripled or quadrupled.
Other areas like Downtown core, Chinatown, Kensington kind of feel the same today, and not on the scale of the city's growth.
The Beltline feels a lot busier, but it's hard to say. It's tough to measure these kinds of things.

Originally Posted by Drybrain

However, it seems like the pace of inner-city residential construction has increased in the past several years, and I think the city is approaching more of a real step-change in its overall level of vibrancy. I think the Calgary of 2030 will feel substantially more vibrant than the Calgary of 2025, rather than incrementally. (That's the vibe I'm feeling, anyway.)

That's my take as well. The explosion of population in downtown, particularly the Beltline takes a while to soak in and catch up. The population has been on explosive growth for about 25 years, but it started out low, and is hitting the high gears now.
By 2030, the population of the Calgary's core (DT and Beltline) will be double what it was in 2011 and will be well over 60K. Satellite neighborhoods like Bridgeland, Kensington, Inglewood, Bankview and Mission will be in the order of 50% higher than were in 2011. There's quite a large critical mass coming together as we speak.

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by theman23

Calgary has a lot nice high street type inner city neighbourhoods now but outside of the Beltline and Kensington they're often empty for whatever reason, maybe because the only residential is occupied by boomers in SFHs that are being swallowed by these commercial developments.
.

I'm not sure when you were last in Inglewood, Bridgeland, Marda Loop or Mission, but they've been popping. They used to be quieter, but these days they're busy. There have been some big changes in those neighborhoods, just in the last few years. Marda Loop, Inglewood and Mission are as busy as Kensington.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by giallo

My favourite comparison is between Hong Kong and Houston. Same metro population, incomparably different urbanism and vibrancy.

You could say the same thing about Victoria and Houston. The southern cities are awful.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

I'm not sure when you were last in Inglewood, Bridgeland, Marda Loop or Mission, but they've been popping. They used to be quieter, but these days they're busy. There have been some big changes in those neighborhoods, just in the last few years. Marda Loop, Inglewood and Mission are as busy as Kensington.

Went for dinner in Inglewood the Thursday before Stampede this year and it was pretty deserted. The commercial strip in Bridgeland was also pretty empty, although the park was well used. It could have been that I chose an odd day. Anyways, I'm not feeling bad about the experience. I really like Calgary and don't mind that it can be quiet at times.

[Cowtown_Tim]

Originally Posted by DavidK93

Re: Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa.

From my own experience of having been to all three cities within the last two years, I would say Calgary and Ottawa are fairly comparable, for vibrancy and urbanism etc. They both have their differences, for example, Ottawa is older and seems more charming, but Calgary feels newer and funkier but they both feel about the same level of urban vibrancy to me.
Edmonton is a head scratcher. For example, Calgary’s downtown feels like a completely different from 20 years ago. Edmonton’s feels mostly the same. Also Calgary’s inner city neighborhoods like Kensington and some of those kind of places have built up and evolved much faster. Strange with both cities having grown at a similar pace, albeit Calgary a little bit faster growth.

Yep. There has been some huge change over the past 20 years. I’m assuming by downtown, you’re probably referring to the downtown CBD and Beltline. I was just doing a quick count of residential high-rises (non office) built in that area over the last 20 years, and it comes out 77 residential high rises. Source. throw in that many buildings in a relative small area and it will definitely have an effect.

I might be biased, but in my opinion, of the mid/medium cities, Calgary’s downtown is the one that has seen the most change over the last couple of decades. Coming from a level where there wasn’t a lot of residential back then, but 20 straight years of nonstop steroidal development makes a big difference.

[Cowtown_Tim]

Originally Posted by theman23

Went for dinner in Inglewood the Thursday before Stampede this year and it was pretty deserted. The commercial strip in Bridgeland was also pretty empty, although the park was well used. It could have been that I chose an odd day. Anyways, I'm not feeling bad about the experience. I really like Calgary and don't mind that it can be quiet at times.

Very strange, I don’t remember the last time Inglewood was deserted, especially before stampede. It does happen sometimes when the neighborhoods aren’t that busy but generally Inglewood is busy all the time. I was down in Mission for dinner a couple weeks ago and it was quiet, but the time for that it was really busy. Still hit and miss sometimes.

[Chocolite]

For vibrancy of mid cities,
Calgary
Ottawa
Quebec
Hamilton
Winnipeg
Edmonton

Quebec is a difficult one to decide because the old part of the city is so charming and busy but it feels more like a regular NA city that has a vibrant tourist area.
I give Calgary the edge over Ottawa, because it feels more young and vibrant to me, and has more of a big city feel. I like Ottawa‘s older architecture and abundance of trees. Both cities have a nice vibrancy.
Winnipeg would surprise a lot of people it’s a small city but has good bones and a lot of nice old buildings.

[svlt]

Originally Posted by begratto

That's very subjective. I prefer "real" winters like we have in Montreal and Quebec City over grey, rainy weather. At least you can do winter sports, the city is all white,

Same goes with the summers - I prefer our warmer summers.

To each is own, I guess!

The exception is that Victoria isn't Vancouver. It gets half the precipitation Vancouver gets in a year. It's quite dry and not uncommon to be biking, jogging or hiking in the middle of winter where daytime highs can reach 8, 9 degrees and sunny or partly cloudy. Most people would take that any day over -15 and snow cover.

Originally Posted by logan5

You could say the same thing about Victoria and Houston. The southern cities are awful.

Totally. Sometimes I hear people claim Dallas and Houston with 8-9 million greater metropolitan census regions get talked up as if they are massive global hubs of activity and urbanity. For economic drivers/customer base and regional TV viewership, sure, absolutely, but for an actual city they don't represent well even at half of their size vis-a-vis other metropolitan cultural icons in the world. Busan on the street makes them look like an absolute joke.

Back to Canadian cities... having lived in Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa, there's no debate to me and consensus is correct. Calgary >>> Ottawa >> Edmonton. Deadmonton still rings true in my mind but I'm sure an Edmontonian will come to defend it. Calgary's downtown core is actually really nice with the +15 connectivity and integration with the beltline. Ottawa is kind of mid pack - not sad or dead, but not interesting either. Once the bureaucrats leave, and they damn well will by 5pm, it's over for the day.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by theman23

I'd probably rank it Ottawa > Quebec City > Calgary. Victoria is nice but very overrated on this forum and clearly a rung below.

I’m not familiar enough either Victoria to know if it’s under-, over- or appropriately rated on here, but if we’re discussing urban vibrancy—visibly lively neighbourhoods, consistent pedestrian activity, street life—I still feel from my experience that Victoria has the edge over Calgary.

And I’m certain that Halifax does, despite the large size discrepancy. I really would place Halifax very high in the rankings of mid cities in this regard—and at this point I still don’t think Calgary is on the list at all. Its commercial streets are still just too few in number, and their activity levels too intermittent and modest. And those urban pockets are separated by big dead zones of near-zero activity. Again, I do sense that this is changing more rapidly now than in the past, and this discussion will probably look different within a few years.

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by begratto

That's very subjective. I prefer "real" winters like we have in Montreal and Quebec City over grey, rainy weather. At least you can do winter sports, the city is all white,

Same goes with the summers - I prefer our warmer summers.

To each is own, I guess!

Big caveat here is that Victoria and Vancouver have different winters. Victoria is actually quite sunny and relatively dry. I have inlaws on Vancouver Island so I tend to be there in December/January.

It's not nearly enough to lure me there, but imo it has the best weather in Canada.

[KnoxfordGuy]

From the Atlantic stats thread. A response to me saying I thought NB would have started shrinking again. The defeatist mindset of the maritimes is so ingrained.

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

Tough to get out of that mindset when much of Canada likes to keep that mindset (even when data shows something else).

Obviously this is Q data but if I was an insane local booster, I might point out that NS and NB grew more than Ontario, not just per capita, but gross total. That does not happen often.

QC had a monster quarter after a down quarter 2.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1710000901