OC Transpo

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

If we learn all of our lessons from Montreal, that includes the crumbling stations, right?

Time will tell here as well about station longevity, but that has little to do with the speed of trains.

[rocketphish]

OC Transpo forecasting $47M deficit this fiscal year
Councillor says budget was based on unrealistic numbers and risky hopes

Arthur White-Crummey · CBC News
Posted: Aug 26, 2025 6:25 PM EDT | Last Updated: 2 hours ago

The city is forecasting a $46.6-million deficit at OC Transpo this fiscal year as ridership remains stuck lower than expected and help from higher levels of government proves elusive.

The new figure comes in a report on the city's second quarter financial results. It shows OC Transpo has already built up a deficit of $6.6 million in the first half of the year.

The system faced higher costs from Para Transpo and sick leave changes in the labour code. But most of the damage came from revenue, including fares, which came in $3.8 million below budget.

River ward Coun. Riley Brockington questioned the budget assumptions when they came up for debate last year at transit commission. He said he's disappointed by the numbers released this week.

"We just really are not receiving estimates from our senior transit staff that are based in reality," he said.

OC Transpo reported about 30 million transit trips over the first five months of the year, about 72 per cent of the 2019 figure for the same period. The 2025 budget was predicated on a recovery to 80 per cent of pre-pandemic levels.

Kari Glynes Elliot of Ottawa Transit Riders also faulted what she called unrealistic assumptions that ridership would improve without a real plan to improve service.

<more>

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/oc-transpo-forecasting-47m-deficit-this-fiscal-year-1.7618445

[lrt's friend]

You can never claim that you have reached rock bottom while also talking of operational efficiencies which really means service cuts, yet again.

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You can never claim that you have reached rock bottom while also talking of operational efficiencies which really means service cuts, yet again.

But wait, better ways to bus was supposed to solve this no? lol

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

But wait, better ways to bus was supposed to solve this no? lol

'better' was never part of it. How do we recover ridership as we continue to cut service. What happens the feds send everybody back to the office. This city is not prepared for it and certainly fed management as well. I cannot believe how office buildings got shut down permanently in the pandemic as if the pandemic would never end.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by TransitZilla

Any examples?

I have some connection to the folks to work on this. The system has improved but certainly there are some known issues that are being worked on.

Are you using Transit app to get the data or another source?

OC Transpo's own website.

Constantly getting incorrect information:

- that a bus is about to come (that isn't)
- that a bus is about to come (that is already long gone)
- that there is no bus imminent at all (and then it shows up)
- that the wait time will be N minutes, when it ends up being much earlier than that.

I'm not talking about being a minute or even two off, or about inevitable schedule slippage as a bus encounters delays en route. But the data service fully lies to customers, and causes us to make incorrect decisions about when to head to the stop or which route, or which trip, to take. IT. LIES.

Most of my busing is on downtown routes: 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 15, 19, 20. (5 and 14, too, but not enough to know whether they are also as bad.)

I used to see these kinds of time-wasting and frustrating problems at least daily. Now I am seeing them on probably 80% of my trips, and more annoyingly, attempted trips. Maybe even higher than that.

I am told that the data feed that apps get is the same as what OC Transpo feeds to itself. I can cut the frustration somewhat by supplementing with Transee, which at least seems to be able to spot a lot of out-of-service-but-about-to-go-into-service vehicles that OC Transpo's website can't spot for some reason.

HOWEVER, in the course of a busy day, with quick choices to make at the bus stop, you don't have time to juggle between sources. (And don't get me started on how OC Transpo's website, and OC Transpo's digital displays, are so often at odds with one another.)

Why does OC Transpo's website just lie? I don't understand it. The paper timetables of the 1990s were more reliable than this steaming sack of incompetent dogshit.

The difference with STO real-time service is also stark.

[Richard Eade]

Reading through the CTV NEWS article I am confused. There seems to be a discrepancy:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/co...ore-workers-head-to-the-office-statscan/

From the article:

Statistic Canada says 76 per cent of workers in Ottawa-Gatineau worked most of their hours outside of the home in May 2025, up 9.5 per cent from May 2024.

And

The number of people using public transit, walking or cycling to work in Ottawa-Gatineau has also increased.
Statistics Canada reports 12.7 per cent of commuters used OC Transpo and STO Gatineau in May 2025, up from 11 per cent in 2024 and 9.1 per cent in 2023. The number of people using active transportation to get to work increased from 7.7 in 2024 to 9.1 per cent in 2025.

So, the number of commuters increased by 9.5%, and the number of those commuters who used public transit increased by 15.5% (11% -> 12.7%). Therefore, about 15.5% of the 9.5% increase in commuters should be the increase in transit riders. Transit ridership should have seen a 1.5% increase. (Not much, but measurable, I would hope.)

Brockington says:

Coun. Riley Brockington says Ottawa is seeing more traffic on roads and sidewalks as the federal government and private companies bring employees back to the office, but transit ridership is not increasing.

He claims that transit is “stuck” around at 70% of pre-CoViD ridership. Maybe he is just thinking that a 1.5% increase is not significant enough. Maybe he wants a jump up to 100% immediately.

I think that his contradiction in this statement is very telling:

It needs to be 100 per cent pre-COVID, if not higher. We’re stuck in this trough that we can’t get out of. That’s why our revenues have been impacted; that’s why we went through this round of bus service reductions in April of 2025. You would hope to see as more and more people work from the office that would be reflected in public transit numbers. We’re not seeing that in Ottawa.

Brilliant! If ridership doesn’t improve right away, we’ll keep cutting service until it does. It reminds me of that old office joke; “The beatings will continue until moral improves.”

I don’t know if I can really fault Brockington too much for his views about public transit, though. He appears to have zero knowledge about OC Transpo’s operations – and the limitations that City Council has imposed on those operations. For example, the case of OC Transpo having too few buses to actually run the scheduled service tracks directly back to City Council’s direction to only buy electric buses.

[QUOTE]Brockington is calling on OC Transpo to present a plan to boost bus service reliability to 85 per cent.[/QUOTE

And if the returned plan is to increase spending by a huge amount, what then, Councillor Brockington? Are you going to fight the Mayor-imposed cap on the next budget increase?

PS Councillor Brockington, for your information, a service reliability of 85% is still too low to make the service ‘usable’ for the majority of riders. If there was a 15% chance that your car would not get you to your destination on time – or at all – would you keep using that car?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by TransitZilla

Any examples?

I have some connection to the folks to work on this. The system has improved but certainly there are some known issues that are being worked on.

Are you using Transit app to get the data or another source?

Oh oh oh - another one: the departure board at Parliament might show a real-time or a non-real-time departure for route 19, but it might just as likely not show anything for the 19 at all. The screen will scroll as far as route 12, then go back to the list starting with route 6 again.

It's the sort of obvious thing that really makes you wonder whether OC Transpo staff ever actually use their own bus system. (Emphasis on the bus system.)

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Oh oh oh - another one: the departure board at Parliament might show a real-time or a non-real-time departure for route 19, but it might just as likely not show anything for the 19 at all. The screen will scroll as far as route 12, then go back to the list starting with route 6 again.

It's the sort of obvious thing that really makes you wonder whether OC Transpo staff ever actually use their own bus system. (Emphasis on the bus system.)

And my other favourite: When OC Transpo's website tells you that there are no runs of your bus for the next four hours.

At eight in the morning. Or noon. Or after work. Or at nine at night. When there are still many hours of service left on regular routes.

[lrt's friend]

[QUOTE=Richard Eade;10474360]Reading through the CTV NEWS article I am confused. There seems to be a discrepancy:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/co...ore-workers-head-to-the-office-statscan/

From the article:


And



So, the number of commuters increased by 9.5%, and the number of those commuters who used public transit increased by 15.5% (11% -> 12.7%). Therefore, about 15.5% of the 9.5% increase in commuters should be the increase in transit riders. Transit ridership should have seen a 1.5% increase. (Not much, but measurable, I would hope.)

Brockington says:


He claims that transit is “stuck” around at 70% of pre-CoViD ridership. Maybe he is just thinking that a 1.5% increase is not significant enough. Maybe he wants a jump up to 100% immediately.

I think that his contradiction in this statement is very telling:


Brilliant! If ridership doesn’t improve right away, we’ll keep cutting service until it does. It reminds me of that old office joke; “The beatings will continue until moral improves.”

I don’t know if I can really fault Brockington too much for his views about public transit, though. He appears to have zero knowledge about OC Transpo’s operations – and the limitations that City Council has imposed on those operations. For example, the case of OC Transpo having too few buses to actually run the scheduled service tracks directly back to City Council’s direction to only buy electric buses.

Brockington is calling on OC Transpo to present a plan to boost bus service reliability to 85 per cent.[/QUOTE

And if the returned plan is to increase spending by a huge amount, what then, Councillor Brockington? Are you going to fight the Mayor-imposed cap on the next budget increase?

PS Councillor Brockington, for your information, a service reliability of 85% is still too low to make the service ‘usable’ for the majority of riders. If there was a 15% chance that your car would not get you to your destination on time – or at all – would you keep using that car?

To be fair, cars also get delayed and we all make some allowances for that although there can be more protracted delays. But your point is taken. Transit delays can be worse when service is already much slower and transfer delays can create big delays.

[Richard Eade]

The problem is the unreliability of transit. Yes, cars get delayed, but most of that is predictable. If I drive to work along the Queensway every morning, then I know that I need to add 20 minutes extra. It’s pretty much the same every time. If I take the bus, I need to take the # 68, then transfer to a # 88, then transfer to the # 45. Assuming that everything goes according to schedule, it could work, but one missed connection and the travel time expands by quite a bit. That means that I need to take an early enough bus that I can still get to work on time, despite any failed connections. So I might arrive much earlier than necessary, or right on time.

Another example: I took transit to a medical appointment in Kanata and surprised them by showing up 40 minutes early. With 30-minute service on one of the buses, I needed that much buffer. The same trip would have been a reliable 12-minute drive.

I find that, if the buses work out, transit can take about 3 X the car travel time. If the transfers don’t work, then all bets are off. And we now have more transfers than ever since OC Transpo has been breaking long routes and forcing connections onto intermediate train rides. Add in the (seemingly) random cancelations of bus runs due to fewer than required buses, and transit becomes a 🞵🞵🞵🞵-shoot. You might get lucky – or you might lose.

[lrt's friend]

I got to compare REM with Line 1 today as part of my trip home using VIA rail from Montreal's south shore. There are other remarkable comparisons regarding city planning as well where Ottawa has failed miserably. We seem so willing to accept second rate on a lot of things, not just transit.

Anyway, REM comes from Montreal's south shore crossing the new Champlain Bridge. The route is interesting when it reaches the island of Montreal. There are some major curves needed to reach Gare Centrale, more complex than what Line 1 faces near Hurdman.

Sure, REM does not take those quite sharp turns at full speed, but the trains glided around those curves smoothly and quietly at a pace much faster than what Line 1 has been delivering for years. The performance of Line 1 is abysmal. Will we ever solve this?

Then we have new Route 105, that might help me get to and from the train station. Of course, the scheduled connections to my local bus are awful, but I got lucky today.

When are we going to start implementing transit projects that actually speed up travel time ? We have been making things worse for years and then wonder why ridership is not improving and traffic is getting worse.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Oh oh oh - another one: the departure board at Parliament might show a real-time or a non-real-time departure for route 19, but it might just as likely not show anything for the 19 at all. The screen will scroll as far as route 12, then go back to the list starting with route 6 again.

It's the sort of obvious thing that really makes you wonder whether OC Transpo staff ever actually use their own bus system. (Emphasis on the bus system.)

I can answer the question in the second paragraph because I am one, and yes I do use the bus system, though I can't claim to have used every route.

I can assure you that there is a team that is working hard on these issues. The current arrival prediction system has a few limitations, including:
-it is unable to provide real-time predictions when a bus is "off-route" (e.g. on a detour).
-it relies on the scheduled runtime of routes to predict arrival times and cannot account for live traffic conditions. (e.g., if the schedule says the bus will take 5 minutes to get from its current location to your stop, the prediction will be 5 minutes).
-accuracy is lower for trips that have not yet started because even if we know the location of the bus, we cannot know for certain when it will depart from the terminus.

The team is aware of an issue that affect trips that start at Parliament station, such as those on route 19. This issue stems from a data problem that arises when schedules are loaded from the scheduling system to the dispatch system. These systems are supplied by 2 different vendors. Work is underway to determine a solution.

The result of the problem is that as buses on route 19 are deadheading between trips (to turn around to head back east) the buses are considered "off-route" and the prediction system stops providing real-time predictions for them. This may be causing the issues you see in the Next Departures tool on the website and on the screens.

The best workaround to this is to use Transit or another app that will show you the GPS location of the buses on a map. There is not very much interlining on route 19; nearly every trip that arrives as an inbound trip on route 19 turns around and departs as an eastbound route 19 a few minutes later. Transit (and other apps) will show you the GPS location of all buses on the route. In Transit, you can check the map for both directions on route 19; if you see a bus on Kent St under either direction, it means it is laying up and will start its next eastbound trip soon.

I do know that some issues with the Next Departures tool (such as when it incorrectly shows that there are no departures for the next 4 hours) have been challenging for staff to reproduce. Feel free to PM me with examples if you see this happen. Details like the exact time you refreshed the data, device OS, browser, etc would be helpful to uncover the cause of that issue.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by TransitZilla

The team is aware of an issue that affect trips that start at Parliament station, such as those on route 19. This issue stems from a data problem that arises when schedules are loaded from the scheduling system to the dispatch system. These systems are supplied by 2 different vendors. Work is underway to determine a solution.

I know that that's the root of the problem, and I know that "work" is going on to fix it.

The real problem is that I have also known these two facts since 2019.

I don't understand how a software issue can persist for so long, and how it can be allowed to persist for so long.

I do know that some issues with the Next Departures tool (such as when it incorrectly shows that there are no departures for the next 4 hours) have been challenging for staff to reproduce.

This tells me that staff need to try riding their own bus system more often, although, mercifully, it's been a while since I've seen that SORRY NO BUS FOR YOU issue crop up.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by TransitZilla

I can answer the question in the second paragraph because I am one, and yes I do use the bus system, though I can't claim to have used every route.

I can assure you that there is a team that is working hard on these issues.

What about the first para, the issue where the screen at Parliament just declines to list any departures for route 19 at all? I've seen this happen three or four times in the last week. Even if it's not able to provide real-time data because REASONS, shouldn't it still be providing scheduled departure data?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by TransitZilla

-accuracy is lower for trips that have not yet started because even if we know the location of the bus, we cannot know for certain when it will depart from the terminus.

That I can also understand, but the system should NOT be lying to me and telling me that there are no trips scheduled at all.

Like, this seems like a really basic coding bug. If the next-trip thingie examines the information at hand, and comes up with an answer that there are no buses coming at all, someone hasn't thought through the logic completely.

[rocketphish]

City, transit workers' union reach tentative contract agreement
The union represents about 2,300 bus operators, rail operators, mechanics, dispatchers, fare inspectors, and fleet and facilities maintenance staff.

By Staff Reporter, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 30, 2025 | Last updated 53 minutes ago

The City of Ottawa and the main union representing transit workers have reached a tentative agreement on a contract, a city negotiator said Saturday.

City solicitor Stuart Huxley announced the tentative agreement in an email Saturday afternoon.

“At approximately 2:30 a.m. on Aug. 30, the bargaining teams for the city and the Amalgamated Transit Union, Local 279 (ATU 279) reached a tentative agreement for the renewal of the collective agreement for employees in the conventional transit bargaining unit,” Huxley noted.

ATU 279 represents about 2,300 bus operators, rail operators, mechanics, dispatchers, fare inspectors, and fleet and facilities maintenance staff.

The latest collective agreement expired at the end of March.

Huxley noted the two sides maintained negotiations, even though the transit union had requested conciliation assistance to push the talks forward.

“The two parties were able to reach this tentative agreement as the conciliation period expired, without the assistance of the federally appointed conciliator,” Huxley wrote.

Details of the tentative agreement will remain confidential until presented for ratification.

“It is anticipated that the tentative agreement will be submitted to ATU 279 membership for a vote in the coming weeks,” Huxley said.

Once ratified by ATU 279, the tentative deal will be presented to council for ratification, he said.

Staff anticipate providing an in-camera briefing on the tentative agreement in September.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/transit-workers-union-contract

[Catenary]

I spotted an E-Ink display on the stop pole on Woodridge outside Bayshore Mall, I assume for departure information. It was covered by a notice, but good to see those being worked on.

[rocketphish]

'A maze with no exit': Transit deficit again plagues Ottawa budget planning
Property tax increase likely to be capped at 3.75 per cent, including police and transit levies

Elyse Skura · CBC News
Posted: Sep 03, 2025 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 6 hours ago

As Ottawa is in the midst of a major transit funding shortfall and with council seemingly set to cap any increase to property taxes at 3.75 per cent, the city's chief financial officer says it will be another tough year for staff building the budget.

Members of the finance and corporate services committee voted 9-3 Tuesday to direct staff to follow those 2026 budget guidelines, meaning the average property owner will pay about $166 more per year.

That's despite reservations that won't leave enough room to cover the sort of hike to the transit levy needed to pay for OC Transpo services as ridership levels fail to increase as quickly as staff had hoped.

"It's undeniable that transit is the monkey on our backs and I deeply share residents' frustration with the situation," said Coun. Catherine Kitts, the committee's vice-chair. "It's costing more. We are still struggling with reliability with the bus service delays."

"It honestly feels like we're trying to solve a maze with no exit."

Staff have not provided a number for exactly how much money the city needs to save in 2026 to balance the transit budget, but have laid out a list of directions:

• Increase the transit levy by 3 to 15 per cent;
• Increase fares by 2.5 to 7.5 per cent;
• Defer more projects, and;
• Find "operating efficiencies."

Cyril Rogers, the city's chief financial officer, said his team will be able to make a balanced budget within those parameters, including any changes to staff compensation that are part of the new tentative agreement with the union representing transit operators.

<more>

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/a-...plagues-ottawa-budget-planning-1.7623050

[rocketphish]

OC Transpo handed out thousands of fare skipping tickets this year
The city employs 12 fare inspectors who are deployed to "known areas" or responding to complaints.

By Aedan Helmer, Ottawa Citizen
Published Sep 12, 2025

OC Transpo fare inspectors handed out more than 4,000 fines to riders who skipped paying the fare so far this year.

Officers issued 4,059 tickets and another 580 warnings between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31, according to data shared with the transit committee.

The city employs 12 fare inspectors who are deployed to “known areas” or responding to complaints, operating from Monday to Friday during the day and into OC Transpo’s peak periods.

Fare inspectors issued 2,654 tickets at O-Train rail stations, 989 tickets at bus stations and another 416 to bus riders on-street.

The penalty for not paying the fare is $260, representing a little more than $1 million in fines.

The data does not represent those who may have boarded a bus at the back door or hopped an O-Train fare gate, staff told the transit committee, and does not include single-ride or special event passes.

Staff said on Sept. 11 they are still working on an estimated “non-compliance rate” to measure the proportion of riders who skip the fare.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/oc-transpo-fare-fines