YVR & Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

A rather quick update to China Southern’s recent announcement

China Southern this week filed changes to its planned operational aircraft when it resumes Guangzhou – Vancouver passenger service on 16SEP25. Initially scheduled twice weekly with 777-300ER, service between 16SEP25 and 14OCT25 will now be operated by 787-9.

CZ329 CAN0025 – 2145-1YVR 789 26
CZ330 YVR0105 – 0600+1CAN 789 26

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/250821-czsep25yvr

Not too surprising, pre pandemic the China Southern Airlines Guangzhou CAN Vancouver YVR - CAN was on the Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner plane. I flew with them spring of 2019 to China & back to Canada.

[VancityAvgeek33]

Looks like Air France won’t be daily from Dec through March anymore. Only going daily for peak winter season. Back to five weekly in the new year.

[Johnny Aussie]

^ already posted ages ago… by me

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Also YVR-Europe will be well connected this winter with 40 weekly flights for peak Xmas period on seven carriers to seven destinations

BA 7 weekly 35K LHR
AC 7 weekly 77W LHR
LH 6 weekly 343 FRA and 3 weekly 359 MUC
KL 3 weekly 332 AMS
AF 7 weekly 359 CDG (5 weekly non peak)
FI 4 weekly 7M8 KEF
TK 3 weekly 77W IST

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

^ already posted ages ago… by me

Yeah, and I mean that's the lowest time of the year for TATL pretty much everywhere except MIA, so not really a surprise

[Johnny Aussie]

^ yes I think with AF to CDG, LH to MUC and FI to KEF now all served year-round is fantastic (along with the others of course). Even if less than daily.

[zahav]

Repost from my post on the Canada Airports Thread:

I am not sure if this has already been posted, I can't remember seeing it. So if it has been posted, mods feel free to delete. But it was posted in December 2024:

OAG: Canadian Air Route Tops 2024 List of N. America's Busiest
Canadian city pairs took the first and 10th places for the busiest 2024 air routes in North America, while one U.S.-based route made the global top 10 list, OAG announced Tuesday. Ranks are determined by the volume of scheduled departing seats for flights in both directions.
Vancouver-Toronto was the top North American route in 2024 with nearly 3.5 million seats. Vancouver-Calgary closed out the top 10 list with 2.96 million seats. The eight intervening routes all were for U.S. city pairs. Atlanta-Orlando was the busiest U.S. route at 3.47 million seats, followed by Honolulu-Kahului at 3.37 million. Those U.S. pairs also were the top two in 2023, but in reverse order.

The full list 2024 Busiest N. America Air Routes (measured by departing seats)
1. Vancouver-Toronto, 3,498,835
2. Atlanta-Orlando - 3,474,713
3. Honolulu-Kahului - 3,369,790
4. Las Vegas-Los Angeles - 3,354,849
5. Denver-Phoenix - 3,214,473
6. Los Angeles-San Francisco - 3,158,918
7. New York JFK-Los Angeles - 3,158,654
8. New York LGA-Chicago - 3,118,179
9. Atlanta-Fort Lauderdale - 2,998,172
10. Vancouver-Calgary - 2,960,192

I am shocked to see YVR-YYZ at #1, I don't know if it's the first time that's happened, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Routes like ATL-MCO and HNL-OGG are historically such heavyweights, as are many other pairings on the list (ie. JFK-LAX). So it is really an accomplishment for YVR and YYZ to come in at #1 (well, at least for us AV geeks lol, my experience is that average people have little to no interest in airport and airline logistics lol).

Also shocking that YVR-YYC is in the top 10. Not only am I shocked to see the route in the top 10 busiest of North America, but I didn't even think it was #2 in Canada! I knew YVR-YYZ had the most seats i, but I thought either YYZ-YYC or YYZ-YUL would be in 2nd place, so it's wild to see us represent so much. This observation is even more strange: LAX appeared in 3 route pairings, while ATL and YVR appeared in 2 pairings. All others appeared only once. I know this isn't major news or anything, just neat for YVR to be on there twice, beside LAX and ATL, two of the most important airports on earth. Obviously I am not even remotely implying YVR being amongst them means we are in their league. Absolutely not, we're in different galaxies lol, never mind leagues. It's fun just to be mentioned in the same breath.

And it's cool that a Canadian pairing took the crown this year against some heavy hitters. I hate the whole US-Canada situationship at the moment, it's ugly in so many ways. But it's funny just to have a petty brag over our American counterparts . And having one more Canadian pairing in the top 10 is just further evidence that our place on that list isn't crazy.

Here's two things I either noticed:
1. Although the list calls itself North America, it notably omits Mexico. MEX to CUN and to MTY are busier, but I guess OAG categorizes Mexico under Latin America and not N. America
2. The link article is odd in that it didn't use airport codes, it used city names. Anyone halfway savvy with airports knows that you always use airport codes, it is too unclear otherwise. And other than JFK and LGA, the article doesn't even mention full airport names, and yet there are cities on the list like Orlando, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Phoenix which have significant traffic at multiple airports. So it made me wonder if the list was counting multiple metro airports together? Heck, they could even have added YVR+YXX and YYZ+YHM+YTZ. Luckily the OAG site itself had a downloadable spreadsheet with the data, and thankfully used airport codes. So all pairs are airport to airport, no combining within metros. Even more impressive knowing that. Before I saw the spreadsheet, I thought that combining airports in the same region could explain YVR-YYC a little more, since YXX has a ton of YYC flights and could make the difference to put VAN-CGY into the top 10. But it is just YVR-YYC, YXX traffic is on top of that.

[trofirhen]

I am flabbergasted that the YVR >< YYZ run has more pax than the US city pairs listed. Like ... LAX >< SFO !!!! "Hooeee!" said Jed Clampett, or maybe "Well doggies!"
How many flights are there per day, anyway, with AC, WS and Porter all combined? It's amazing.

[whatnext]

It continues. Not exactly worthy of a world class tourist destination….

About 100 flights cancelled, more delayed at YVR after Nav Canada staffing crunch
YVR says the flight delays and cancellations were due to unexpected staffing constraints at the country's air navigation service provider

Author of the article:Cheryl Chan
Cheryl Chan

Both arriving and departing flights were affected Wednesday afternoon and evening by the staffing shortfall, with 105 flights cancelled and nearly 200 others delayed at YVR

Regional routes within B.C. were the hardest hit, as well as flights to Calgary, Toronto, and late-night flights to and from the United States.….

https://vancouversun.com/news/vancouver-...av-canada?itm_source=regular---hero-feed

[casper]

Harbour Air has new routes coming to Victoria, and Tofino.

Float service into Ucluelet and Campbell River.

Looks like a Seattle service is also in the mix.

https://harbourair.com/news/network-expansion/

[nname]

^ Note that the routes are not for the same airport. It can be either from Vancouver (YVR) or Vancouver (CXH)

So from the PR and from what I can find:

YVR-YYJ 12x weekly winter seasonal (2 flights x6)
YVR-YAZ 4x weekly winter seasonal
YVR-YTP daily summer seasonal
YVR-YHS 8x weekly summer seasonal (2 flights on 1457)
YVR-YWS suspended

CXH-LKE converted to summer seasonal
CXH-WPL converted to summer seasonal
CXH-YHH daily summer seasonal
CXH-CAN3 daily summer seasonal
CXH-YHS suspended

YWH-LKE daily summer seasonal

I remember YVR/CXH-YHS was 2x to 4x daily a few years ago, so it is still a big reduction in service.

Note:
YTP = Tofino
YHS = Sechelt
YWS = Whistler
WPL = Powell River
YHH = Campbell River
CAN3 = Ucluelet (no IATA code)

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by casper

Harbour Air has new routes coming to Victoria, and Tofino.

Float service into Ucluelet and Campbell River.

Looks like a Seattle service is also in the mix.

https://harbourair.com/news/network-expansion/

A bit of a shuffle. But overall they are increasing total flights by 33%

Beginning Winter 2025 and continuing through Summer 2026, guests will enjoy the convenience of up to 200 daily flights across 15 destinations, including four brand new routes and year-round service enhancements.

This expansion grows the Harbour Air departures from 150 to up to 200 daily flights, and 15 destinations meeting growing demand from business, leisure, and community travellers.

[Johnny Aussie]

AC adding a 4 weekly 789 rotation to YYC for the winter

So 10 domestic widebodies per day to YYZ YUL YOW and now YYC

A good range of equipment with every widebody type AC has:

77W 77L 789 333 788

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

AC adding a 4 weekly 789 rotation to YYC for the winter

So 10 domestic widebodies per day to YYZ YUL YOW and now YYC

A good range of equipment with every widebody type AC has:

77W 77L 789 333 788

was that the 789 that used to go the EWR during the winter?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

was that the 789 that used to go the EWR during the winter?

No. The daily EWR flight is still a 789 in the winter.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

AC adding a 4 weekly 789 rotation to YYC for the winter

So 10 domestic widebodies per day to YYZ YUL YOW and now YYC

For a flight that's roughly 1.5 hours gate to gate, that seems like a strange waste of a widebody resource. I must be missing something fundamental here.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by s211

For a flight that's roughly 1.5 hours gate to gate, that seems like a strange waste of a widebody resource. I must be missing something fundamental here.

Some fundamentals for you:

1. AC has a lot of slack in its widebody fleet in the winter (most airlines do), so it's normal you will see them more often on domestic, US or even Mexico/Caribbean runs.
2. These 787s are $200-300 million dollar investments. If they are sitting on the ground, they aren't earning revenue for the airline.

AC clearly has a 4-5hr slack with one of its 787s during that specific timeframe in winter, and therefore decided to utilize it on YVR-YYC-YVR. AC routinely uses the 787 or even the 77Ws on the 50 minute run between YUL and YYZ, or even YYZ and YOW on occasion. This is nothing new.

It's called sound asset management. Keep these planes in the air, so they generate revenue for the airline. An airline that isn't doing this has poor fundamentals. Not the other way around.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Some fundamentals for you:

1. AC has a lot of slack in its widebody fleet in the winter (most airlines do), so it's normal you will see them more often on domestic, US or even Mexico/Caribbean runs.

This does not apply to YVR base. AC have much more widebody long-haul flights out of YVR during winter compared to summer. Seems like this winter they'll need to send 4 to 5 additional 789s from YYZ/YUL to YVR to cover the winter seasonal flying.

As for the extra YYC flights, seems like they are squeezing them in between the LHR and the MNL flights, which departs close to 1am. There's not enough time for the other days since SIN/MNL/DXB departs much earlier.

[thenoflyzone]

^ Sure, but I was referring to the whole network. It doesn’t have to be specific to YVR. YYZ and YUL don’t require as many widebodies in winter, so AC deploying a widebody on YVR-YYC is a direct result of that.

[Johnny Aussie]

Porter maintaining 8 daily flights this winter

YYZ 4 YOW 2 YUL 1 YHM 1

****

What’s the latest tally for Flair? They seem to have some routes where the frequencies change almost weekly. Too hard!

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Porter maintaining 8 daily flights this winter

YYZ 4 YOW 2 YUL 1 YHM 1

****

What’s the latest tally for Flair? They seem to have some routes where the frequencies change almost weekly. Too hard!

Peak weekly frequency for week of Dec 21

YYC 21
YYZ 20
YEG 16
YWG 5
-- domestic 62

SFO 4
LAX 4
LAS 4
-- transborder 12

PVR 8
GDL 7
CUN 7
MEX 3
-- international 25

Total 99 weekly, or just over 17 daily flights.